Very excited for our chat today. We have Alex Sanfilippo, the founder of

podmatch.com. And, yes, I am not just a

a a an advocate of PodMatch. I'm a user of it. In fact, some of

the the guests that we've had recently on the show do come from PodMatch. So

do encourage you all to check it out. We'll have a link, of course, in

the show notes to sign up for your own PodMatch profile, either as a host

trying to attract guests or as somebody who's trying to get on more podcasts. It's

a great platform all all around. But, Alex, thanks for joining us. Matthew,

Matthew, thanks so much for having me, man. Really excited to spend this time with

you. So before we jump into the the deep end on PodMatch and all the

new features that you have that have just been released and some new ones that

might be coming out very soon, you are serial entrepreneur in

nature. You've done a lot of different things in in entrepreneurship and

working, but when did you kinda weave your way into the world of podcasting?

How did that start? Yeah. It started as a as

an addition to something. It was actually 2014,

which in podcasting years, that means I'm, like, ancient in podcasting years. Right? Like,

the tech has changed a lot. But at that point, I was running a blog,

and I decided like, I I didn't know what podcasting was, but someone's like, oh,

it'd be really cool if you turn this into a podcast. And I was like,

what the heck is that? Like, it's on your phone. I'm like, no. It's not.

And, like, yeah. It's a little purple button. I was like, oh, okay. I had

an iPhone. And so sure enough, I listened and was, like, instantly hooked, so I

decided to try it. So that was kinda like my low key entry into podcasting.

But fast forward years, when I decided I wanted to leave my corporate job, I

I really didn't know what the shift from corporate

life to entrepreneurship would look like or what that would be like. So I started

a podcast, another one, at that point to actually talk to

people who had successfully left a 9 to 5 job to become a full time

entrepreneur and just to hear about how they did it. And, and it worked

great. I ended up becoming an entrepreneur, but, more than just that, I

realized I wanted it to be in podcasting. And so I yes. I I started

in 2014, but I really consider that 2018 is when

I think it was. 2018 is when I really kinda found my

bearings in the space and fell in love with the medium and decided that, like,

when I became an entrepreneur, which I was learning through with podcasting, I wanted to

be in this space and in this industry. And that was kind of what got

me into this whole thing. What were some of the things that you were doing

early on that you think helped you to be

successful in podcasting that maybe others aren't

thinking of or, you know, or maybe they're just

avoiding for for the wrong reasons? Yeah. The very first thing I

did is is I I I I had a purpose behind it. Like, I I

knew why I wanted to do it, and I think that that's really important. And

it wasn't it wasn't so I could become an entrepreneur. It was it was not

like the I didn't think it was gonna be the vehicle. Right? Like, the idea

was just like this could help me learn, and maybe I could bring other people

along the way with me to learn. So I had, like, a I had a

purpose behind it. And on top of that, I I just committed to it. So

I committed to achieving that purpose. So when I started before I started, I

said I'm gonna do 52 episodes before I make any

other decisions. Like, just 52 episodes, I'm not gonna change a single thing about it,

which maybe was me being a little bit stubborn, but I was like, I'm not

gonna do video for the I'm not gonna do any of this. I'm just committing

to the 52 episodes, and at that point, I can stop. I can keep on

going. And so for me, that was a full year. I was doing episode a

week. So I committed to 1 year before I got started. And I I don't

see a lot of people doing those 2 steps. Or if we do have a

purpose, it's like, well, I'm gonna build a business around. I'm like, I don't know

if that's, like, a deep enough purpose unless you already have some sort of business

that you're kinda running with. Right? People are like, I wanna start a business. I

wanna start a podcast. I'm like, well, maybe just start your business and not not

your podcast. Right? But for me, I I felt that I had that deeper purpose

and then the commitment thing. I think so many of us were like, I'll try

it and see how it goes, but they don't even define what that

means. Like, what does try it mean to you? For me, trying it meant a

full year of commitment with no changes with sticking to the plan. Some people just

say I'll try it, and they're like, until I get bored. And we all know

that you you have less than a 50% chance of making it to 8 episodes.

And so I think that those were, to me, like, a couple of things that

that I really decided from day 1 to to really go all in

with it. I love the the first thing you said, though, is, of course, is

doing it with purpose. The thing that always drove me crazy when I was working

with podcasters was the person who would say, I really wanna do a podcast, but

I don't know what I wanna do it about. It's like, that's the opposite. It

should be, I have some sort of burning passion, burning

desire. There's something I wanna do, and maybe this is the right vehicle to do

that. So I like that that was kinda like your your first piece of

advice. So we met originally a few years ago at a

podcasting event in Trenton, New Jersey.

And at that time, pod match was really just starting to come into

its own. And I remember you telling me kinda like the mission and the

goal because there have already been a lot of platforms that made it easy for

people to find and, you know, be a guest on

other podcasts. But you were saying that the thing that you really wanna

do was you wanted the podcasters to be

compensated for what they were doing. So tell me a little bit of how PodMatch

came about and, you know, what that early mission was. Yeah.

Sure. You you you know, I actually think we met online first. Maybe maybe in

2020. I mean, in person, yeah, like, that's that's a real, like that's

a mile that's something you can, like, put a pin in. Right? You can remember

that. But I think I met you just before PodMatch maybe initially,

And, and you kinda helped guide me along the way, which I really appreciate. And

and, yeah, at that point, I don't really I didn't do great due diligence. I

don't think there were many platforms doing what we were trying to do, which was

matching guest and host for interviews. I would say similar to a dating app, how

it connects people. Right? We're trying to connect people to have a great interview, not

not a great date. But and so we kinda set out to do that 1st

and foremost. But beyond that, I I realized really fast, same stuff that you've

seen, Matthew, is that that podcasters it's it's a labor love, and there's a lot

of cost that goes with it. And I say a lot of cost. Like, that's

that's a relevance thing for some people. It might seem like a lot. For others,

maybe not. But for most of us, it's a hobby when we maybe have a

spouse or significant other or other bills in our lives. Like, it does seem like

a lot. And I can just remember when we first started, we ran into what

I thought was an immediate problem. People were leaving, and it wasn't guest label. It

was host. They were, like, churning off of our software. And, like so that just

means, like, signing up, using it for our leaving. And I told my business partner,

Jesse. I was like, hey, man. We have a problem. This is not working. I'm

like, I don't know what the problem is, but it's it's just not working. And

I was like, but I'm gonna I'm gonna talk to these people. So we just

added a simple email right afterwards that allowed people to book. It was a

15 minute meeting with me. So let's straighten my calendar,

and I I literally opened it up from, like, 8 AM till 5 PM. And

I can remember one day, Matthew, this is a side note. I did 25 calls

in one day. Never again in my life. It was a terrible decision,

man. Yeah. No. No. I remember having a job where

they were like, to be successful at this job, you're gonna have to make 60

calls a day. I'm like, nope. I'm out. You're like, I'm leaving. That's how I

felt that day, but here's what I learned. It wasn't a problem with our software.

It was people leaving podcasting completely. And some people

said, well, I actually really liked PodMatch, but I'm stopping my podcast.

And when I asked people the the main reason there there was all kinds of

reasons, but the main one that I heard was that it was a cost that

they couldn't they couldn't sell, like, to their to their

spouse. Their spouse couldn't get on board with the extra cost. Times were already tight.

And And so I kept on hearing that. And I remember when I kinda went

back to my business partner, Jesse, I was like, okay, man. Never mind. You built

great software. Good job. I'm like, well, people are leaving podcasting. Like, as soon

as they start, it seems like I think our our average time that a host

to say on PodMatch at that point was, like, 3 months. And and I was

like, is there anything we can do about this? So we kinda went back to

the whiteboard, and we came with what we call our pod value initiative. And the

whole idea is can we compensate podcast host as they're releasing

episodes? And, yes, we we cut into our profit to do that. We we

basically and I don't typically share this, but basically, we just look at

50.50 percent goes back to podcast host. The other 50% goes to running, operating the

business. And so we just cut that in half, and we split that up among

podcast hosts that are using PodMatch. I always make sure to tell people

you're not going to get rich using PodMatch. That that is not the intent of

it. The goal is to help offset your cost, and if you have low cost,

even be able to hire some sort of virtual assistant to help you with your

podcasting efforts. That's what we wanna do. And so the the basically, it

works. If you find your guests through PodMatch and you book them through PodMatch,

the system will automatically pay you a commission each time you're doing that. And depending

on what it is, it can be a lot. It can be a little bit,

just kinda depending on how how much actually I'm going on in the platform. But

as we're recording this, we actually I'll announce it in 2 weeks, but we

just flipped the switch to increase so we could pay podcast hosts by just

over 9%, on average per interview. So, like, to me, that was a

huge jump. Like, I'm thrilled about that, and I'll be real. This is my favorite

part of what we get to do is help enable podcasters to continue podcasting because

I believe in the message that they're getting out to the world. So, that's the

idea behind it. I don't know if I've had any fill any gaps, Matthew, if

I did okay there. But No. No. No. I mean, that was absolutely perfect. And,

yeah, I I have to admit I've been on the platform, for a little while

under this profile, and I I wasn't even thinking about it. One day, I

just got an email that says, by the way, you gotta check for the, you

know, the last 8 or 9 interviews that you do with people. I was like,

oh, yeah. This is great. And and it's just been, fantastic.

So but but you've taken pod match now to the new levels. Right?

You keep adding new features and and new instruments to help

podcasters. What are some of the new things that have come up on the PodMatch

platform that you are most proud of, and are there any other ones coming up

that, you can reveal to us? Yeah. Sure.

First off, I mean, I get super excited about this. I'm gonna I'm gonna try

to keep it brief. But, basically, all the ideas that we come up

with are not our ideas. They're coming from our community

directly. It's the people that are using our software that are telling us what they're

what they what they want, what they need, but also we can see from a

data standpoint how people are using the platform. So we're able to make updates and

changes, and we're really big about that. Like, if we see a pain point that

clearly is causing problems, then we go in there and we fix that. If there's

an enhancement that just so many people bring up, like, is there any solution for

this anywhere in the podcasting industry? And we can't find it, they can't

find it, then it's like, hey. Can we build this in somehow? And so first

and foremost, like, we're not just pulling ideas out of our head and creating them.

We're actually listening to people. So a couple of them that I'm really proud of

more recently is we have, what's called workflows inside of PodMatch, and this is on

the podcast host side. And it's basically project management software specifically

for helping people with their production of their episodes. I love that stuff. To

me, it's it's a really great organization tool. And more or less, it's like

a a glorified checklist that helps you keep up with all the steps involved every

time you're releasing an episode. And you push a button, it adds a new episode.

You can customize it. You can add team members. You can upload files, and it

won't compress them at all because that's important with audio video. Right? There's all these

different things that you can do back and forth to make sure that you're staying

on time. That will probably always be my favorite thing we build, but I'm I'm

thrilled. We used to have that as a separate software. We brought

it into pod match and just freely included it for for any hosties in the

platform. So for me, that was really big. Next thing I'll mention

here, the the AI enhancements. And and I wanna be careful with AI because I

feel like, I don't know, Matthew. Do you feel like every company on Earth, like,

I know where it's like, new AI feature. Right? Like It's right. It's like

you can't have software without having an AI accompaniment to it,

and every platform wants to charge you more just to use their AI where it's

like, is it really that helpful? But anyway, go ahead. You're right. So we did

not change our pricing, and we did add AI features. But for me, when we

again, we we always go to whiteboards for everything. We went to whiteboard, and I

I wrote this down and had it reinforced with both my business partners,

Alicia and Jesse. I was like, AI is only as good as what we feed

it. So, like, what we give it is gonna determine how good the result is.

And and that's why for a lot of people that people are getting burnt out

on AI tools. Not good AI tools, but, like, the upsell feature that you don't

have to pay more for that no one wanted and no one asked for. Right?

That, like, kinda just gives you garbage. I'm not trying to be rude, but there's

no context for it. It has not been fed anything of value. Therefore, it can't

give you anything. So with PodMatch, we knew it. Like, you know, we have very

detailed profiles for both guests and for host. Like, we ask for

a lot of information, and we do because we want to be very coherent. I

don't want Matthew to have to ask me 10 questions to know if I'm gonna

be a good guest on a show or vice versa. We want that stuff to

be out of the way so you can just get straight to it and have

the answers. Because we have all that information, we can do a really good

job of what we call a match alignment feature. And this is an AI feature

that will tell Alex and Matthew in the in this case, speaking of, like,

3rd person. It'll tell us why we're aligned. Like, where are our connection points?

And I used to do this manually. Like, I'd always try to find that initial

thing that was kinda like the the bullet I put at the top when I

was gonna be a guest or have someone as a guest. I always wanted to

know that anyway. Like, what's the alignment between us? And so we found a way

for the system to do it. And what I'm most proud of is that it's

smarter than me. Like, when we when we tested it, like, the first round, I

was like, man, this feels like AI. I'm like, I don't want to feel like

AI. But by the 3rd or 4th version, it pulled out

some key points between me and a guest that I would have never thought about.

It talked about, like, an element of faith that we both shared and how that

could be used in our marketing strategy as podcasters. And I was like, dang. I

was like, that is like like, it pulled that out in, like, a single sentence

line. I'm like, that's where that's the direction I wanna go in. That's good. And

the idea is not that it's gonna tell you what to do. It just helps

you understand, like, is this even a real alignment? Is there something here?

Beyond that, once you actually match with somebody, now the system will also give you

ideas for questions. It'll tell you if you're the guest, what you might be

asked. It'll tell you which audience you're showing up for. It'll tell you as

the host, like, what what this guest can bring your audience that maybe no one

else could. It's bringing all that stuff together that's really just cutting down the research

element. Because for me, for a long time, Matthew, the the hardest part of podcasting,

the most time consuming part was the research. And, yes, I still do it, but

it's cut my time in half by having these these features and these tools. So

those are between workflows and these AI enhancements. Those are 2 things I'm, like,

really proud of, and, I'll be quiet for a minute. Turn it back over to

you, but I do have I I can share some future stuff if that's helpful

as well. Yeah. And and I just wanna say, you know, it's it's

time is money when it comes to podcasting. So even if doing research doesn't cost

you a ton or or, you know, even if, you know, having these questions like,

you know, going through writing the questions doesn't cost you a lot of money. It

does cost you time. And as podcasters, for many of us, this

is, you know, something else that we do on top of our job. So time

is already a limited factor. And, you know, with like you said, the

research is what takes up the most time for me. It's always what happens afterwards.

But either way, if you could save time on either side of the actual

interview process, it's it's extremely valuable and,

something that people should be thinking about and taking advantage of. And, again, if you're

a podcaster looking for guests, you know, the cost to be on

here as a podcaster could be quickly offset by

whatever your right commissions that you can make by having, guests on your

show. So, yeah, let's talk about what are some, what's some future things

that current Pod Mattress can look forward to and maybe potential

ones. Yeah. I'll go to the potential ones first. This is gonna be a really

simple enhancement. We just believe so much in the the the

product, the platform, like, how we serve people that we have decided that if you

join PodMatch, I'll I'll speak the host side first and the guest side. The host

side, if you join the platform, you do one interview for it, we'll give you

your 1st month payment back. It's $6 a month for a host to be on

PodMatch, and that's we're gonna try to keep it that price forever. But we'll just

as soon as you do it, you'll get your commission as well, but we'll just

give you your $6 back automatically. We just wanna have people show up there

because there's always those new podcasters. Like, I'm gonna do this without spending a dime.

And I'm always like, you can do that, but you're think about the value of

your time. Right? Like, going with all free tools does have a cost associated with

it that many of us don't really think about. So that we wanna help people

understand that, hey. We want you to be willing to invest in yourself, and we're

willing to to go ahead and and reimburse you if you can just show us,

hey. You're you're willing to do this. So that that's an exciting thing we have

coming up for host specific on the guest side. We've got more

enhancements to help to help them understand how they can

add the most value to podcast host audience. So they can really,

like, convert listeners into leads. They can convert listeners into conversations.

Whatever is it they're trying to do, there's more, and that's all on the AI

side, but it's gonna help them be able to understand how to convert much better,

which is a win win that helps the host, it helps the guest, it helps

the listener. So, be looking out for that. It'll just automatically be part of it.

So it's kinda hard to even explain, like, where that's gonna be in the platform.

Like, it's just gonna show up in front of you. But those are those are

couple things beyond that. Like, just as a platform as a whole, we have a

we have, like, something new we're working on. We don't have a name for it

yet, but we we already have something called pod lottery, which is an

external tool, which is a way to do, like, review swaps among

podcasters. We're actually bringing that into PodMatch inside of

it, and, we're gonna enhance it quite a bit to make it

more collaborative and more community driven to help people exchange reviews. And

it's not just gonna be for podcast hosting or podcast guests will be involved,

and there'll be some form of compensation involved for anyone who's

deciding to get involved in this element of of of community building more or less.

Like, helping each other shows, listening, and and growing them. And on the guest side,

we have some fun stuff as well that we're planning on implementing. But, basically, it's

gonna be a fancy review swap system. That's already what PodLottery

does, but specifically for podcast hosts. We're just gonna kind of we're gonna bring it

inside. It's not gonna be an upsell or anything like that. It's gonna be included

with it, and it's gonna be opened up to everyone to have more of a

community element to it. And I'm I'm really excited about that. I I don't know

if people have asked for it, but people are getting what they want with pod

lotteries. I don't know if it'll, like, cause a bump of the software, but I

just see the value specifically from a synergetic

standpoint of our community. And I'm I'm really big about community. So I'd say that's

the next that's the next really big thing that I'm excited about. You know,

one thing I've I've always admired about you and I've always noticed is

you are always trying to provide

value. There are like, you always have the best

intentions of the podcasters in mind when you are doing stuff. And,

yes, you are also very successful from doing all this stuff and, you know, commendable

and great, but I feel like even if you were only making a dollar, you

would still be putting in this much effort and this much, you know, thought into

the platform to help podcasters out. So just something I wanted to just kinda

throw out there and and let people know about. So with that said, you know,

kinda turning away from the platform, you've also went ahead and launched your own podcast

network, the PodMatch Network. What's that all about, and why should people

consider jumping into the fray with you there? Yeah. We we I I talked to

a lot of people about podcast networks, and it started coming up among our community.

Real quick, Matthew. Thank you for the kind words. Sorry. I can't get that in

my head. I just gotta say thank you. I appreciate it. It means a lot

to hear, man. Like, I'm very there's a lot of purpose on what I do

and and love and serve people first is is really what motivates me more than

the financial side. And maybe that makes me a bad entrepreneur, but I I I

just love people. Terrible entrepreneur. Right now. We'll still keep supporting

you. Thank you, man. I I appreciate it. So, yeah, the network.

So I was talking to the community, and a lot of people started asking about

networks. And and it started becoming a lot. So I I started building out a

list of different networks, and I I have to be real. I didn't really

know these networks. I kinda gave that disclaimer, like, hey. I just found these, and

it seems in line. I don't know the people. And some of them end up

being great, and then others, people are like, yo. They're trying to, like, they're trying

to screw us over. And I'm like, oh, I'm sorry. Like, you're nodding. You've seen

it too. Right? Like Oh, yeah. It it's called the network centered mindset, which is

if it doesn't value the network, we don't care about the show. And and

and I don't mean to to say that to be rude or mean. I just

couldn't keep those names on the list anymore. And it got to the point where,

like, the list got small and the fit wasn't right. Like, it

wasn't it wasn't helpful. And finally, I was just like, you know what? What I

asked. Like, what if we launched a network inside of PodMatch and just called it

the PodMatch podcast network? Would anyone be interested? And immediately, I

had 28, like, 28 key people on PodMatch have been using it for a

long time, all emailed in saying, hey. I would love to be a founding member

if you do that. And they all said they all said in their own words,

of course. But I was like, man, that would be great. Let's let's launch with

these 28 people, and let's try it for a couple months and see what happens.

So we did. And, basically, it's built inside of PodMatch. So for us,

it's not a lot of extra effort. We just kinda pour some gasoline on what

PodMatch does, the fire that it already builds, right, to to make it go a

little bit further, be a little bit more enhanced. So the idea behind it was,

could we build out an inner circle of shows? And right now at time of

recording, I believe we're right just under a 100 shows total in it. And the

idea is can we take things further with them? Perfect examples later

today. I'll be on a call with, 98 of them confirmed that

they're gonna be there today, which is probably everyone in the network, which is kinda

crazy. Right? That everyone's gonna I mean, we'll see who shows up, but 98 said

that they would be there. They had to push a button to to to do

that, but I'm gonna be sharing some what I consider to be, like, next level,

audience growth ideas and engagement. So and and we're just gonna dive into that. And

the idea is I wanna bring in experts with really cool ideas. Yeah. Maybe we

have to pay the experts to be there, but that's the premium form of education

I wanna bring to these people. And then we've got, just like Zoom meetings with

virtual networking, right, among the community that that's inside of that

network. And so, really, at the end of the day, I just wanna bring people

closer together and help enable them to go further. It's more or less our inner

circle within PodMatch now. Nice.

We are chatting with Alex Sanfilippo. He's the founder of podmatch.com.

And the reason why I'm I'm kinda pushing us is because I wanna get to

our 3 questions. The first one, you know, I ask everybody is really about improvements

of the podcasting space, and I feel like based on some of the things you're

already doing and the discussions that we're having about the network, I feel like, you

know, this could be a discussion in and of itself. So I wanna jump right

into it. So, you know, where where do you

want to see or where do you think the podcasting space

needs the most help and improvements, whether it's from recording,

production, networks, distribution, even just the

consumption side? Like, what is something that, you know, maybe you're

not working on? We don't wanna give away too much of, you know, the secret

sauce, but, you know, where's something that you would love to see, fixed in the

podcasting world? Yeah. It's it's around to to me, it's all

around community. When I hear the complaints, people feel like they're kind of alone in

podcasting. And I a lot of people maybe don't do their due diligence, but they

kinda feel like they don't have, like, a real tribe. And this is specifically

on the hosting side of things. Again, I I kinda serve both the guest and

the host. The guest seem to do fine, and we we see that they they

hang out as long as they feel like talking about their message and as long

as it's it's fun for them. That's great. There's not a lot of work that

goes into being a guest necessarily or nowhere near as much as a host. But

host, they kinda just feel lonely, and and I get it. Like,

when I started my podcast, I didn't put it here a single word aside from,

like, family and close friends for the first, like, 3 years of podcasting.

Like, just didn't hear anything. And I didn't know that there were other podcasters, which

I know sounds silly now that I say it. Go back to 2014, there was

no meetups for it. There was nothing like that. Like, I I just didn't know.

The first time I found out there was a conference was 2017, and I went

straight down to Orlando, Florida to Podfest. I was like, yep. There's there's other

podcasters. I'm gonna meet these nerds. Right? But,

but, yeah, I think that the community aspect is really what's what's missing. People need

a tribe, and inside that community, a really important key pillar of it is

accountability. Talked about it earlier. Like, I committed to 52 episodes,

and I did that publicly with people that weren't podcasters when I got started. Right?

But that was okay. But it'd be really great to be in some sort of

community. All podcasters doing something similar saying, you know what? What? Here's what I'm

doing. I wanna let everyone know this is what I'm committing to doing. And I

think that having that accountability, that extra measure of of being

checked in with, I think, goes a really long way. We'd see a much lower

churn rate in podcasting.

Wow. What do you think you said it

earlier. Right? One of the biggest reasons why people actually drop into podcasting usually

has to do with resources. Right? Not enough time, not enough money,

you know, not enough skill. Does do you really

think accountability is enough to kinda push through those hurdles? Are

there other ways that podcasters could support each other?

Yeah. There that's a good point, Matthew. Like, there definitely are more ways

people could help. Example, occasionally, I've met people who really, really love editing. I

don't know if you've ever met anyone like that. Right? Like, you have. Right? Guy.

Occasionally, and our people were like, I really like editing. And some of them even

said, hey. Like, if anyone needs help editing or needs tips, I'd love to to

provide that because it's just so much fun for me. And I I don't know

who that is. Right? And I've seen a number of them now, but it's like,

man, that's a great way to be able to to help each other. Typically, I

find that people that are really good at that are really bad on the graphic

design side of things. Like, even though, like, the Canvas of the world exist. Right?

They still really struggle with it. The people that like that hate editing. And to

me, there's could be some sort of community collaboration around, like, hey. Let's help each

other with these shows. And more or less, I'm describing what I think probably the

best intent of a network would be a small group of people that are helping

each other out, doing the things that each other like, it takes a tribe. Right?

Maybe it takes a tribe with a podcast. And so I think that in many

ways that people could help each other a lot more, and accountability isn't enough.

I just I've seen how much it does help. When somebody has accountability, somebody checking

in, they feel like if I don't do this, I'm gonna let somebody down, and

no one wants to let other people down. Right? And it's not to to give

them some negative reinforcement. No. It should be positive. Like, hey. You're you're going somewhere.

Let's keep it going together. But I don't know if it's enough.

I I don't. I I just when I hear people talk, that seems

to be the thing that they're missing, and I'm wondering if the motivation from community

could lead them to say, you know what? I'm willing to put up with x.

I'm willing to put up with y. I'm willing to spend a bit more money

because I'm actually part of something here. And I I can't say that that

necessarily works. I just this is feeling based, which maybe isn't the

best, but it's just what I'm hearing, and and I wanna I wanna help with

that side of it because I know community is, like, really my my thing.

Something tells me that your instincts have been pretty good thus far and will probably

remain pretty good moving forward. So keep doing what it is that you're, what you're

doing. What about is there any tech on

your wish list? Now, obviously, you can build

software and and add features all the time, but, like, is there something else out

there maybe in a in a unrelated space that either you're waiting

to buy or you're waiting for someone to create to make, podcasting better

or easier for you and your, you know, network and clients

and friends and customers. Yeah. I think that one of the

biggest missed points, and this actually kinda speaks to some stuff that you do.

But people don't understand how to talk about their podcast in real life. You

ever notice that? Does that does that make sense what I mean? Like, if I

go to a coffee shop, I'm not gonna tell someone about my podcast there. And

that to me seems like a really that seems like a missed opportunity. That's a

real person. And if you strike up a conversation, like, why not tell them about

what you do? And you have to be like, listen to my podcast. Episode alert.

New episode out now. Right? Like, you don't need to do all that and make

it weird. But if they're, like, into something that you're into, like, why

not give it a shot? So I'll just call it podcasting in the wild is

I think I think there needs to be solutions to help people understand how

to do that, but also, like, actual tools that do it.

So, like, they need to, like, teach people, like, hey. Here's how you show up,

and here's how you talk about it, but here's the tools to help enable that

to happen. Here here's, like, a little example. I'm literally just kinda pulling this out

of my mind. Right down the street walking distance where I live, a new coffee

shop just opened up, and it's, like, an independent small coffee shop. You know, like,

the little, I don't know what to call them. Like, the the cardboard things that

go around the mug, the little cups so it doesn't burn your hands. The The

little sleeves. That's it. Yeah. Could I buy them 10,000 of

them and put a QR code to my podcast and, like, call out an episode

on that and then use that? Would would they do that? I don't know. I

did just look it up before this because I, like, I I saw somebody walking

by and I thought about it. It only costs, like, a cent each or something

like that to do that or maybe maybe less than that. So you can buy

10,000 of these things for, like, almost no money. And it's like, well, would

10,000 people walking around with my QR code and maybe something seems interesting to

them be be a good a good thing. Right? That's just one example.

I know that you're working on solutions in the space that are, like, next level

stuff, but I think that there's a need for that. And I don't know if

you have the same thought, but I'd actually be very curious to hear from you

on this as well, Matthew, if that's okay. I I think what you

just mentioned is absolutely brilliant

that getting these custom sleeves and partnering with a local coffee

shop and, you know, having your name on there would be great. You know, the

only setback that I would see is that most people, that's

where they're putting their hands, and so they'd be covering up your name. And so

maybe you're not getting the exposure, you know, to other people who would be seeing

it. But what I love is that kind of creative

thinking when it comes to podcast marketing. Right? Like, we are so

obsessed with digital hacks, you know, social

media gurus telling us how to market our podcast,

even digital ads being the thing. And and I just remember from

back in the day, the people who tend to be

successful are always doing something a little bit more old school, a little

more gorilla tactics. Right? A little bit something, you know,

simpler. Like, I remember years ago, I was

writing about this stuff and somebody went to Comic Con shortly after

the first of the Star Wars sequels

came out. Right? The the force awakens, I think was the first one that that

came out. And this guy was going around Comic Con handing out flyers

with a giant picture of Mark Hamill and the words missing.

Right? Because he he didn't appear in the first movie, and I was like, well,

where's Mark Hamill? And then at the very bottom was little text that said,

these are the kinds of things that we talk about in our podcast. Boom. Link.

It was like, that guy probably got that flyer in the hand of

100 of people who are all like, okay. This person is funny and clever. I

wanna check it out. This coffee sleeve idea, I think, is just

exactly one of those, like, clever things. And, yeah, if you're maybe

you're doing a localized podcast so that local coffee shop makes sense or, you know,

maybe you speak to entrepreneurs, you know, people who tend to sit around the Starbucks

maybe drinking their coffee and working on stuff. Yeah. That that's the kind of thinking

that you want, and that's the kind of thing I'd like to see

more people experimenting with and trying out.

I'm always shocked how when I see people doing billboards. Right? You have Blip and

some other platforms out there that allow you to do billboards. I think more people

should be taking advantage of that because people are driving where they tend to listen

to podcast in their car. So what better place than have a giant billboard that

says, hey. Thinking about the whatever. Eagles

today, right, of the playoffs? Check out our podcast on the Eagles. I I think

that's the kind of stuff that will work better than, you know,

the tired and repetitive and oversaturated

philosophy and strategies of just blasting it on social media and things like

that. Yeah. You know, the the one thing I'll I'll share in this to follow

that up is just, this is the only time having a boring podcast about

podcasting, which is what I have. Right? You under you understand this world. Like, I

can't go on the street and meet somebody that's gonna be interested. They're gonna be

like, you're weird because you have a podcast about podcasting. Right? Like but I'm telling

you, man, if you have a podcast about, like, continued education, go to go to

a a university, the the closest thing to you. I think a lot of people

think, like, I need to get my podcast numbers up. Right? Are people always thinking

more downloads, more listeners? And, man, like, if you look at the data, like,

if you have something like 30, 35 people listening every week, like, you're in the

top half of all shows, man, if you just meet one new listener

every day for, let's just say, 2 months, let's say, take weekends off, you're gonna

be in the top 50% if you do this. And that human touch, they're probably

gonna listen forever and tell their friends I met I met Matthew. I I know

this person. Met him at a coffee shop, and now I'm listening to his podcast,

and you should too. Right? Like, I just think there's a lot of opportunity here

to really to do something a little bit more creative than just solely

relying on online. And I digress because I know we gotta move on, but that

that's I wanted to share that. We can do whatever we want. It's my show.

Great. No. And, you know, actually, I I think you raise another interesting point, and

that is the best podcast is the most successful ones.

They're not even doing the crux of their marketing and

growth. It's their audience. So engage your audience. Put

your audience to work for you. Let them be your advocates. You know? If I

tell you, hey. I've got a great podcast. You're like, yeah. Whatever.

But, right, if Alex goes, I was just listening to my guide, Matthew, doing his

podcast. You should check it out. That holds so much more sway. So

Sure does. Well said. Think about finding ways to engage your audience. Alright. And this

one's gonna be tough because, you know, you run a platform. You've got a network.

You know a lot of people in the a lot of folks in the space.

But is there a couple of podcasts or 1 or 2 primarily that

when they drop a new episode, you're stopping what you're doing and listening, or, like,

you're just you're not gonna let that one go without checking it out?

Yeah. You know, I I've I've kind of my my first thought

about this is, like, I wanna talk about podcasts about podcasting, but the reality is

that I also have interest outside of podcasting, and I kinda wanna break

sometimes. So for me, podcasting is is a really fun medium.

I really have enjoyed Jordan Harbinger. The Jordan Harbinger Show is is what it's

called. And I just think he does a brilliant job interviewing people. So I've always,

like, learned a lot about his interview from his interview skills, and I've always

really enjoyed his show. I can't say I jumped to every single episode, but I

do look. If it interests me, I'm gonna dive in and take a listen to

it. The other one I'll mention is the James Altucher show. James is

good. Almost I mean, it's funny. They're they're both, like, j names and

both the name show. Apparently, I gotta I gotta I don't have a type.

Where's the Alex Sanfilippo show? No one can say that or spell it, man. So

I'll just leave leave that one alone. But James Altucher,

he's I'm not into chess. He's super into chess right now, but,

man, is that guy fascinating? I always, like, referred him as the most interesting entrepreneur

in the world, like a play on the most interesting man in the world. Like,

he's just the way his mind works for whatever reason

helps me become a better, like, creative, I think. And so I I those

are 2 shows I really have enjoyed. 1, to learn how to be a better

interviewer, the other one, to learn to be more creative as an entrepreneur. Wow.

And it certainly has not worked out well for you at all. So let me

find other shows to check out. Out. Alex Sanfilippo, the founder of

PodMatch. Again, listen, Alex is gonna talk it up. I'm

gonna talk it up. Everybody who I know uses it has great things to say

about it. So if you aren't, make sure you check out podmatch.com,

link to it in the show notes, and, you know, follow Alex on all the

socials. He is always dropping, insightful, you

know, great things. And I always look forward to seeing what he has to

say. Alex, as always, pleasure chatting with you today, sir. Thank you so much, Matthew.

I really appreciate it.