1 00:00:02,640 --> 00:00:04,920 Janice Porter: Janice, hello. Hello, and welcome to this 2 00:00:04,920 --> 00:00:09,180 week's episode of relationships rule. I'm Janice Porter, your 3 00:00:09,180 --> 00:00:14,040 host, and I have a special guest with me again this week, and she 4 00:00:14,340 --> 00:00:17,760 is Jen Mueller, and I'm going to say welcome to the show, Jen, 5 00:00:17,820 --> 00:00:22,220 before I get into it, thank you. You're very welcome. I'm excited 6 00:00:22,220 --> 00:00:26,000 to have you here. Jen is an Emmy Award winning sports 7 00:00:26,000 --> 00:00:30,260 broadcaster, communication expert and founder of talk 8 00:00:30,260 --> 00:00:35,360 sporty. To me, with over 25 years literally on the sidelines 9 00:00:35,360 --> 00:00:39,800 of major sports leagues, including the NFL and the MLB, 10 00:00:39,980 --> 00:00:43,000 Jen has mastered the art of building relationships in the 11 00:00:43,000 --> 00:00:47,800 most high pressure, fast paced environments. She shares how the 12 00:00:47,800 --> 00:00:51,100 technique she's used to establish trust in seconds with 13 00:00:51,100 --> 00:00:54,460 world class athletes can be applied to business settings 14 00:00:54,460 --> 00:00:57,700 where brief, meaningful interactions often matter most. 15 00:00:58,000 --> 00:01:01,500 If you've ever wondered how to make a lasting impression in a 16 00:01:01,500 --> 00:01:06,960 short amount of time than this episode is for you. Wow. Okay, a 17 00:01:06,960 --> 00:01:10,800 lot to unpack here, because I know you sort of lead a double 18 00:01:10,800 --> 00:01:16,320 life in a way, right, I guess. So, yeah, yeah, I never thought 19 00:01:16,320 --> 00:01:18,540 about it until the second. But yeah, you're still doing the 20 00:01:18,960 --> 00:01:24,440 sports broadcasting, and you are very busy doing presentations 21 00:01:24,440 --> 00:01:29,480 and workshops and and conferences with business people 22 00:01:29,480 --> 00:01:35,780 to share, to to transition that over to to business. So let me 23 00:01:35,780 --> 00:01:39,440 ask you this, because I want to jump right in. So you're known 24 00:01:39,440 --> 00:01:43,780 for making fast, meaningful connections. So what's the first 25 00:01:43,780 --> 00:01:46,660 thing that you focus on in these interactions? 26 00:01:47,380 --> 00:01:50,320 Jen Mueller: You focus on conversations that can take 27 00:01:50,320 --> 00:01:53,980 place in seconds, not minutes. So I think a lot of times when 28 00:01:53,980 --> 00:01:57,520 we think about interactions or networking or making an 29 00:01:57,520 --> 00:02:01,980 impression, we're thinking about a conversation or a meeting or a 30 00:02:01,980 --> 00:02:05,760 happy hour or a coffee that you're blocking out several 31 00:02:05,760 --> 00:02:10,440 minutes, 30 minutes, 45 minutes, even an hour. But if I'm 32 00:02:10,440 --> 00:02:14,160 thinking about TV time, we measure conversations in 33 00:02:14,160 --> 00:02:19,020 seconds, not minutes, literally the shortest amount of time that 34 00:02:19,020 --> 00:02:25,520 you can pencil into a television script is 15 seconds. I can tell 35 00:02:25,520 --> 00:02:29,420 you a story in 15 seconds. It's three sentences, it's not a lot 36 00:02:29,420 --> 00:02:33,920 of detail, but there is an impact that is made in just 15 37 00:02:33,920 --> 00:02:37,880 seconds. So if I am trying to make an impression, I need to 38 00:02:37,880 --> 00:02:43,000 recognize that really all it takes is one word, one exchange, 39 00:02:43,360 --> 00:02:48,460 one smile, one interaction. And if I'm looking at the smallest 40 00:02:48,460 --> 00:02:51,880 measure of success in that moment, I'm looking for the 41 00:02:51,880 --> 00:02:56,980 number of people who say hello, and that is my goal every time I 42 00:02:56,980 --> 00:03:00,040 walk into a locker room or clubhouse, is to get at least 43 00:03:00,040 --> 00:03:02,280 five guys to say hello. 44 00:03:03,780 --> 00:03:07,680 Janice Porter: Okay, so my my thought process when you were 45 00:03:07,680 --> 00:03:11,820 describing that went to and I think I've told you this before, 46 00:03:11,820 --> 00:03:14,580 I watch more basketball games than I watch football games, or 47 00:03:15,120 --> 00:03:19,380 definitely not baseball. It's not my thing. But anyway, so I 48 00:03:19,380 --> 00:03:26,540 think of the sports reporter or interviewer on the on the floor 49 00:03:26,660 --> 00:03:30,680 who, after even half time, maybe quarter time, even after the 50 00:03:30,680 --> 00:03:36,140 game, has a few seconds with. Now you might clarify this for 51 00:03:36,140 --> 00:03:41,080 me. Is it with the person that has been assigned to do that, or 52 00:03:41,080 --> 00:03:44,320 the one you ask to come and do that. So 53 00:03:44,320 --> 00:03:46,420 Jen Mueller: there's probably what you're talking about. 54 00:03:46,420 --> 00:03:49,720 There's probably two different instances, okay, if you're 55 00:03:49,720 --> 00:03:54,100 talking to a coach that has been assigned to you, so for example, 56 00:03:54,100 --> 00:03:56,680 if it's a coach at halftime, the coach knows that they're going 57 00:03:56,680 --> 00:03:59,680 to talk, and that's pretty standard across the board, 58 00:03:59,680 --> 00:04:03,360 right? The head coach of an NFL team knows that they're talking 59 00:04:03,360 --> 00:04:06,120 to the sideline reporter at halftime. Same thing with NBA, 60 00:04:06,360 --> 00:04:10,860 okay, after the game, yeah, the player who gets interviewed that 61 00:04:10,860 --> 00:04:14,880 is not predetermined, that is based on their performance in 62 00:04:14,880 --> 00:04:18,000 the game. So it is my job to walk up to them, or that 63 00:04:18,000 --> 00:04:22,280 sideline reporter's job to walk up and ask for the interview in 64 00:04:22,280 --> 00:04:25,700 that moment. And that's another great example, Janice, of those 65 00:04:25,700 --> 00:04:29,300 conversations that take place in seconds, not minutes. Because in 66 00:04:29,300 --> 00:04:33,320 general, if you were to start a stopwatch, those interviews 67 00:04:33,320 --> 00:04:37,460 probably last no more than 90 seconds, which for me, is three 68 00:04:37,460 --> 00:04:41,200 questions. So you're looking at 90 seconds to two minutes. So I 69 00:04:41,200 --> 00:04:43,840 guess you could measure it in minutes, but you're making a big 70 00:04:43,840 --> 00:04:46,420 impact in a very short amount of time, 71 00:04:46,780 --> 00:04:51,700 Janice Porter: right? So let's go back to the those 15 seconds, 72 00:04:51,700 --> 00:04:59,560 20 seconds type interviews. I know it's based on you have to 73 00:04:59,560 --> 00:05:02,700 be watching. Watching the game, you have to be looking at what's 74 00:05:02,700 --> 00:05:06,960 going on. So do you have your questions pre determined? Oh, 75 00:05:06,960 --> 00:05:07,440 you 76 00:05:07,440 --> 00:05:10,740 Jen Mueller: do. Okay, I do. I do. So if I'm watching a game, 77 00:05:10,740 --> 00:05:14,400 I'm taking notes the entire way, because you don't know if it was 78 00:05:14,400 --> 00:05:17,820 that play in the first quarter or the ninth inning, that turns 79 00:05:17,820 --> 00:05:21,140 out to be the difference. And there are different points in 80 00:05:21,140 --> 00:05:23,960 the game that I will start to dial in those questions. And 81 00:05:23,960 --> 00:05:27,620 there's a few reasons I do this, and I know that some people 82 00:05:28,700 --> 00:05:33,320 worry about the authenticity in those moments. There is a lot 83 00:05:33,320 --> 00:05:36,740 going on during a post game interview. If I am on a baseball 84 00:05:36,740 --> 00:05:40,480 field, I am probably dodging some sort of Gatorade bath. I've 85 00:05:40,480 --> 00:05:43,660 got teammates that are coming by and high fiving. I've got the 86 00:05:43,660 --> 00:05:47,140 crowd yelling the interview is being played in stadium. So 87 00:05:47,140 --> 00:05:50,500 there are a lot of potential distractions. I want to be 88 00:05:50,500 --> 00:05:54,160 dialed in, because if I'm only going to get three questions, I 89 00:05:54,160 --> 00:05:57,580 need to be really strategic. Those three questions have to 90 00:05:57,580 --> 00:06:00,840 hit the mark, and if we're thinking about building 91 00:06:00,840 --> 00:06:04,860 relationships in those moments. Some of these guys I have known 92 00:06:04,920 --> 00:06:09,360 for the length of their career, some of them have just joined 93 00:06:09,360 --> 00:06:12,660 the team in the last three days. That's what I was going to ask 94 00:06:12,660 --> 00:06:16,140 you. Yeah. The difference Yeah, yep. And so if I am, especially 95 00:06:16,140 --> 00:06:19,500 if I'm working with you for the first time, I want to make the 96 00:06:19,800 --> 00:06:24,560 answer to that question, easy and obvious. I'm not going to 97 00:06:24,560 --> 00:06:27,440 put words into your mouth, but for me, it's the difference in 98 00:06:27,440 --> 00:06:31,040 saying what happened in the seventh inning, which could be 99 00:06:31,340 --> 00:06:36,620 any number of things, two, what gave you the confidence to steal 100 00:06:36,620 --> 00:06:42,700 second with two outs and a lefty in the box there's only rest 101 00:06:42,820 --> 00:06:45,280 one. There's only one, but there's only one answer to that 102 00:06:45,280 --> 00:06:48,100 question. There's only one. I don't know what the answer is, 103 00:06:48,160 --> 00:06:51,460 yeah, but you know what the answer is. And when I do that, 104 00:06:51,460 --> 00:06:55,480 and I make that answer easy and obvious, I just built trust, 105 00:06:55,480 --> 00:06:59,740 because now you trust me to guide you through a conversation 106 00:06:59,980 --> 00:07:01,080 that you have the answers 107 00:07:01,080 --> 00:07:04,740 Janice Porter: to love it, yeah. Okay, so let's transition that 108 00:07:04,980 --> 00:07:10,380 through to a business conversation, all right. So 109 00:07:10,680 --> 00:07:16,980 liken it to something that would happen for a salesperson. You 110 00:07:16,980 --> 00:07:18,660 work with salespeople, right? I 111 00:07:18,660 --> 00:07:21,320 Jen Mueller: do work with some salespeople, yeah. So it's the 112 00:07:21,320 --> 00:07:26,240 difference in getting people out of scripted and generic 113 00:07:26,240 --> 00:07:29,960 responses. So here's what happens. We rely on conventional 114 00:07:29,960 --> 00:07:35,000 wisdom and just conversational norms, and we have probably been 115 00:07:35,000 --> 00:07:38,780 taught somewhere along the way that asking open ended questions 116 00:07:39,140 --> 00:07:42,340 is the best way to get a response, because, in theory, 117 00:07:42,340 --> 00:07:47,020 what you are doing is giving the floor to that person to answer 118 00:07:47,080 --> 00:07:51,340 any way they want to answer. Right? What we're actually doing 119 00:07:51,400 --> 00:07:55,420 is creating confusion, and anytime you create confusion, 120 00:07:55,600 --> 00:07:59,560 you are going to default to the safest possible answer, because 121 00:07:59,560 --> 00:08:03,060 nobody wants to look stupid, and nobody wants to give you the 122 00:08:03,060 --> 00:08:06,480 wrong answer. And here's the best way. We don't even have to 123 00:08:06,480 --> 00:08:10,200 get into sales. This is with anybody. Here's the best way I 124 00:08:10,200 --> 00:08:15,360 can articulate that. Okay, if I were to ask you, how are you 125 00:08:15,960 --> 00:08:17,220 What is your response? 126 00:08:18,000 --> 00:08:20,540 Janice Porter: I hate that question. Just so you know, I 127 00:08:20,540 --> 00:08:23,420 hate that question too. Yeah, I say something like, I'm doing 128 00:08:23,420 --> 00:08:27,020 okay, right now, thanks. Or, you know, having a great day. I 129 00:08:27,020 --> 00:08:31,520 actually try to be honest, but I personally don't pay attention 130 00:08:31,520 --> 00:08:32,000 to it. 131 00:08:32,300 --> 00:08:34,640 Jen Mueller: People don't pay attention. Part of that is 132 00:08:34,760 --> 00:08:38,180 that's a that's a conversational norm, right? That's a script 133 00:08:38,180 --> 00:08:41,560 that we expect. Now I teach ways that we can use that to our 134 00:08:41,560 --> 00:08:45,280 advantage. But when I ask an entire audience with my 135 00:08:45,280 --> 00:08:49,240 corporate clients, yeah, we default to the answer, good, 136 00:08:49,360 --> 00:08:52,420 yeah, we're fine. We're fine. Right now, I want you to think 137 00:08:52,420 --> 00:08:56,140 about what that question actually is. It is the biggest, 138 00:08:56,140 --> 00:08:59,140 broadest, most open ended question you could possibly ask. 139 00:08:59,200 --> 00:09:03,240 The reason we default to good and fine most often is because 140 00:09:03,240 --> 00:09:06,240 we don't know what you're looking for. I don't know if you 141 00:09:06,240 --> 00:09:09,000 want me to talk about the workout that I had this morning, 142 00:09:09,000 --> 00:09:12,540 how my diet's going, how you know the family is, how the job 143 00:09:12,540 --> 00:09:16,440 is, what my stress level is, and unless I'm brave enough like 144 00:09:16,440 --> 00:09:20,480 you, Janice, to actually say I'm having kind of a cloudy, crummy 145 00:09:20,480 --> 00:09:23,780 day over here? Yeah, I don't know what it is that you're 146 00:09:23,780 --> 00:09:27,560 looking for. And so when we're in sales, right, we often don't 147 00:09:27,560 --> 00:09:31,340 know what it is. It's easier to say what we don't like than what 148 00:09:31,340 --> 00:09:34,820 we do want, right? So if we're opening it up by Hey, tell me 149 00:09:34,820 --> 00:09:39,920 what you're looking for today, I don't know. Would it be way 150 00:09:39,980 --> 00:09:43,540 easier if I was able to bring this proposition to the table to 151 00:09:43,540 --> 00:09:50,200 you and say, out of these three things, efficiency, time, length 152 00:09:50,200 --> 00:09:55,420 of time that you want to work with me, and profitability. Rank 153 00:09:55,420 --> 00:10:00,480 those in order of importance for you. Well, now I'm. Starting the 154 00:10:00,480 --> 00:10:06,420 conversation with a very direct, like question, but I make it 155 00:10:06,420 --> 00:10:10,380 much easier to know what that starting point is anytime you 156 00:10:10,380 --> 00:10:14,820 narrow that down and there's only one possible answer, and 157 00:10:14,820 --> 00:10:17,880 it's not about the answer being right or wrong, it's just giving 158 00:10:17,880 --> 00:10:21,860 somebody the confidence and what I consider the safe space to be 159 00:10:21,920 --> 00:10:25,580 like, Oh yeah, I know the answer to that. I can raise my hand to 160 00:10:25,580 --> 00:10:29,120 that. I got that. I know that one. So, 161 00:10:29,120 --> 00:10:34,400 Janice Porter: okay, what percentage of time would you say 162 00:10:34,400 --> 00:10:39,260 that you are talking to people you've never met before, or that 163 00:10:39,260 --> 00:10:42,040 like they're brand new? Is it a lot or half? 164 00:10:42,040 --> 00:10:44,860 Jen Mueller: Well, it depends on which setting. So I get to know 165 00:10:44,860 --> 00:10:48,820 my athletes fairly well. Yeah, it's a great question in that I 166 00:10:48,820 --> 00:10:52,240 talk to a lot of fans, or I will talk to scouts from the other 167 00:10:52,240 --> 00:10:57,040 team, or I am talking to, you know, three year olds to 83 year 168 00:10:57,040 --> 00:11:01,380 olds, depending on where you fall as a fan as a business 169 00:11:01,380 --> 00:11:05,040 owner, and it's a great way to practice all of these skills to 170 00:11:05,040 --> 00:11:07,860 make sure that you make somebody else feel comfortable in a 171 00:11:07,860 --> 00:11:08,700 conversation. 172 00:11:09,120 --> 00:11:12,660 Janice Porter: Okay, so I'm asking because yesterday I had a 173 00:11:12,660 --> 00:11:15,720 conversation. It was like an intro call like you and I had 174 00:11:15,720 --> 00:11:21,440 had before this podcast, and someone had pitched this 175 00:11:21,440 --> 00:11:25,160 gentleman to me, and I didn't know that much about him, and 176 00:11:25,160 --> 00:11:28,460 nor, nor would I at that point, right? I did a little bit of 177 00:11:28,460 --> 00:11:34,220 homework, but he wasn't what I expected, okay, in the position 178 00:11:34,220 --> 00:11:39,740 that he was in at, which was a high one, and he was very 179 00:11:39,740 --> 00:11:45,100 humble, and he was a little bit awkward. And so I thought this 180 00:11:45,100 --> 00:11:48,820 is a guy who's been in business for many years and is an owner 181 00:11:48,820 --> 00:11:52,300 of a big company. And, you know, I had been sort of flattered 182 00:11:52,300 --> 00:11:55,600 that that this had come my way, and I expected something 183 00:11:55,600 --> 00:12:02,340 different. So I found myself a little bit I hate this term, but 184 00:12:02,340 --> 00:12:06,480 it's, it fits here at sea. Okay, it's, it's a crossword term. I 185 00:12:06,480 --> 00:12:11,400 think that's where I get it from. Anyway, yeah, and, and so 186 00:12:11,400 --> 00:12:16,020 I was looking for that, something to bond with him. And 187 00:12:16,020 --> 00:12:20,220 he started, I said something about the industry he's in which 188 00:12:20,220 --> 00:12:25,040 he lit up. And then something came up about he had started his 189 00:12:25,040 --> 00:12:28,460 career wanting to be a basketball coach. Well, that was 190 00:12:28,460 --> 00:12:31,520 perfect for me, right? Because my husband had been a basketball 191 00:12:31,520 --> 00:12:37,040 coach. We basketball family, and he just lit up. And so I found 192 00:12:37,040 --> 00:12:40,780 it quickly, and I thought, wow, that's, you know, like, and from 193 00:12:40,780 --> 00:12:43,480 then on, we were best friends, you know, in the conversation. 194 00:12:43,720 --> 00:12:51,640 So are there like I do it innately, but most people don't 195 00:12:51,640 --> 00:12:55,360 so and I'm not saying that I'm brilliant because I did that. 196 00:12:55,360 --> 00:12:59,020 I'm just saying that it's, it's a challenge for me, that I like, 197 00:12:59,020 --> 00:13:03,240 I like, to be able to find that commonality. So do you have some 198 00:13:03,420 --> 00:13:06,480 strategies that you share with people, that you teach people 199 00:13:06,480 --> 00:13:09,000 around that? Does that make sense? 200 00:13:09,000 --> 00:13:12,540 Jen Mueller: Yeah, yes. So the number one thing I would say, 201 00:13:12,540 --> 00:13:17,100 and I think Janice, you are describing also people that I 202 00:13:17,100 --> 00:13:19,920 work with that are high performers, that are ultra 203 00:13:19,920 --> 00:13:24,140 successful, and we have an assumption that when you reach a 204 00:13:24,140 --> 00:13:28,760 certain level, that you want all the credit, all the glory and 205 00:13:28,760 --> 00:13:32,360 all the accolades for everything that you accomplished, and not 206 00:13:32,360 --> 00:13:34,640 all high performers are that way. I'm glad 207 00:13:34,640 --> 00:13:36,740 Janice Porter: that you're comfortable talking about it, 208 00:13:36,740 --> 00:13:37,940 bingo, right? 209 00:13:38,060 --> 00:13:41,260 Jen Mueller: So a lot of people, when they see athletes who are 210 00:13:41,260 --> 00:13:46,600 awkward on TV. It it's a little bit jarring. Sometimes they get 211 00:13:46,600 --> 00:13:50,260 judgmental. And you got to remember that in every whether 212 00:13:50,260 --> 00:13:53,440 it's locker room, clubhouse, boardroom, business setting, 213 00:13:53,800 --> 00:13:56,320 you've got people who are introverts and extroverts. 214 00:13:56,440 --> 00:13:59,440 You've got people who are comfortable being on the in, you 215 00:13:59,440 --> 00:14:01,860 know, the front leading from the front, you've got people from 216 00:14:01,860 --> 00:14:04,680 behind. So the first thing I would say is adjust your 217 00:14:04,680 --> 00:14:08,280 expectations accordingly. Just recognize the human who's in 218 00:14:08,280 --> 00:14:12,180 front of you, and you can't force them to have a personality 219 00:14:12,180 --> 00:14:15,780 or an answer that they just don't have. That's not a failure 220 00:14:15,780 --> 00:14:19,620 on them or you. This is just the personality that you're working 221 00:14:19,620 --> 00:14:22,400 with. So that's kind of number one, recognize the human that's 222 00:14:22,400 --> 00:14:25,520 standing in front of you. Number two, if I am looking for a 223 00:14:25,520 --> 00:14:28,160 conversation starter, I always start with sports. 224 00:14:28,580 --> 00:14:30,440 Janice Porter: Always do a lot of the times 225 00:14:31,520 --> 00:14:35,600 Jen Mueller: I do and I do what most people would tell you not 226 00:14:35,600 --> 00:14:40,540 to do. I ask a yes, no question, yeah, and it will be related to 227 00:14:40,540 --> 00:14:44,440 something. So again, in my line of work, if I'm working with the 228 00:14:44,440 --> 00:14:47,140 mariners every day, or if I'm working with the Seahawks every 229 00:14:47,140 --> 00:14:50,080 day, did you watch the game last night? Right? Are you going to 230 00:14:50,080 --> 00:14:53,140 watch the game on Sunday? Now there's only one answer, and I 231 00:14:53,140 --> 00:14:55,660 really don't care what the answer is. I don't care if it's 232 00:14:55,660 --> 00:14:58,960 yes or no. If the answer is yeah, I watched the game and, 233 00:14:58,960 --> 00:15:02,040 man, that was tough. In the sixth inning, and now I know 234 00:15:02,040 --> 00:15:05,400 that we can talk sports, and I can create an easy follow up 235 00:15:05,400 --> 00:15:09,480 opportunity with you if you say no, now I've got this really 236 00:15:09,480 --> 00:15:12,300 easy opening to say, oh, what were you busy with last night? 237 00:15:12,300 --> 00:15:15,780 Yeah, I was watching the game, but, but what had you busy which 238 00:15:15,780 --> 00:15:19,800 is a way easier way to enter that conversation then. So what 239 00:15:19,800 --> 00:15:22,760 were you doing last night, right? Right comes across with a 240 00:15:22,760 --> 00:15:27,680 very different connotation, and for people who are worried about 241 00:15:27,680 --> 00:15:31,400 using sports as that starting point, because what if they're 242 00:15:31,400 --> 00:15:36,200 not sports fans? Okay, more than half of all Americans, this is 243 00:15:36,200 --> 00:15:39,380 what the Harris Poll study says. More than half of all Americans 244 00:15:39,380 --> 00:15:43,180 identify as sports fans. So that's number one. Number two, 245 00:15:43,240 --> 00:15:47,320 I'm just trying to cut through that awkward 20 question phase, 246 00:15:47,500 --> 00:15:52,240 right? I just need to get you in your comfort zone. And again, if 247 00:15:52,240 --> 00:15:55,240 you don't watch sports, you're going to tell me what you like 248 00:15:55,240 --> 00:15:57,700 to do instead, and you're going to tell me your hobbies, your 249 00:15:57,700 --> 00:15:59,560 kids, your dogs, your travel. 250 00:15:59,740 --> 00:16:02,160 Janice Porter: I love it, yeah? Because, as I recall now, I did 251 00:16:02,160 --> 00:16:05,580 say to this gentleman yesterday, did you watch the game last 252 00:16:05,580 --> 00:16:08,820 Yeah? And he went and I made a comment about one of the 253 00:16:08,820 --> 00:16:13,020 players, and he went on and on about him. So yeah, it's just 254 00:16:13,020 --> 00:16:15,060 when you find it, you find it, right? 255 00:16:15,420 --> 00:16:19,800 Jen Mueller: Yes. And that right, there is such a nugget 256 00:16:19,800 --> 00:16:23,840 that people miss in that part of small talk. So when you start 257 00:16:23,840 --> 00:16:27,440 talking about a player, or, quite honestly, an outcome, a 258 00:16:27,440 --> 00:16:30,440 coaching decision, all of this is personal branding, and 259 00:16:30,440 --> 00:16:33,980 whether people re realize they're revealing this to you or 260 00:16:33,980 --> 00:16:38,000 not, it is valuable if you are in sales. It is valuable if you 261 00:16:38,000 --> 00:16:40,660 are trying to build a relationship, because a favorite 262 00:16:40,660 --> 00:16:44,800 player is not an accident. You do not randomly choose to have a 263 00:16:44,800 --> 00:16:48,640 favorite player and be engaged in that player's careers and 264 00:16:48,640 --> 00:16:52,480 outcomes. There is something about their style of play, their 265 00:16:52,480 --> 00:16:56,320 personality, their work in the community, that really resonates 266 00:16:56,320 --> 00:17:00,660 with you, and when you start drawing that out. Now, I've got 267 00:17:00,660 --> 00:17:04,500 a slightly bigger picture of who I'm working with and who I'm 268 00:17:04,500 --> 00:17:07,200 trying to build this relationship with. I've actually 269 00:17:07,200 --> 00:17:10,920 done this exercise with NFL rookies in a room to help them 270 00:17:10,920 --> 00:17:14,160 get to know each other. And when you start talking about certain 271 00:17:14,160 --> 00:17:18,300 positions on the field and certain Hall of Fame players, 272 00:17:18,720 --> 00:17:21,800 the characteristics are really obvious, and it's very 273 00:17:21,800 --> 00:17:25,100 interesting, what they find out about each other. When you start 274 00:17:25,100 --> 00:17:28,460 realizing I really appreciate the guy in the trenches who 275 00:17:28,460 --> 00:17:32,360 never gets any credit but just wants to grind every play of 276 00:17:32,360 --> 00:17:37,340 every game, or I like the guy who doesn't mind talking during 277 00:17:37,340 --> 00:17:39,740 the game and who doesn't mind being brash and who doesn't 278 00:17:39,740 --> 00:17:43,540 mind, you know, being the sound bite, I like that confidence as 279 00:17:43,540 --> 00:17:48,100 it comes through, so that what you did in that example is 280 00:17:48,100 --> 00:17:51,280 perfect for developing a relationship, even if people 281 00:17:51,280 --> 00:17:52,900 think you're just talking about sports, 282 00:17:53,079 --> 00:17:55,659 Janice Porter: right, right? And that's how I saw it too, which 283 00:17:55,659 --> 00:18:00,479 is, it's just to get him to open up and and to see his demeanor 284 00:18:00,479 --> 00:18:03,479 change, right? And then you, yeah, that's, it's brilliant. 285 00:18:03,719 --> 00:18:09,179 Okay, you got me thinking, I got questions here, but I go, I go 286 00:18:09,179 --> 00:18:12,479 with the flow here. So something that came to my mind when you 287 00:18:12,479 --> 00:18:17,759 were talking also, because you're around the the the male 288 00:18:17,759 --> 00:18:22,159 athletes constantly. Do you have any experience with female 289 00:18:22,159 --> 00:18:26,359 professional athletes? I do, and I do, how does that differ? Does 290 00:18:26,359 --> 00:18:26,959 it differ? 291 00:18:27,920 --> 00:18:32,480 Jen Mueller: Well, the actual environment differs a little 292 00:18:32,480 --> 00:18:38,540 bit. So the way that it works when you cover professionals. So 293 00:18:38,540 --> 00:18:43,000 we're talking major league baseball, NFL, NBA and NHL, 294 00:18:43,480 --> 00:18:48,220 there is media availability that takes place in a locker room, in 295 00:18:48,220 --> 00:18:53,980 a dressing room, in a clubhouse, when you cover the WNBA, at 296 00:18:53,980 --> 00:18:58,420 least when I did a number of years ago, all of that media 297 00:18:58,420 --> 00:19:04,680 availability takes place on the court or in a press conference 298 00:19:04,740 --> 00:19:08,580 setting, so you were in a room, so you were never actually in 299 00:19:08,940 --> 00:19:10,440 their locker room 300 00:19:10,440 --> 00:19:12,420 Janice Porter: space. Was that by design? 301 00:19:12,660 --> 00:19:16,920 Jen Mueller: Well, it is by design, and we can discuss 302 00:19:16,920 --> 00:19:20,480 whether that's a good idea or a bad idea, right? But your locker 303 00:19:20,480 --> 00:19:23,360 room, you're gonna have people that are dressing, undressing, 304 00:19:23,360 --> 00:19:26,600 going to the showers, you know, coming from treatment, going to 305 00:19:26,600 --> 00:19:30,140 hot tubs and cold tubs and things like that. So there are 306 00:19:30,140 --> 00:19:34,040 just some differences there, and I totally understand why it's 307 00:19:34,040 --> 00:19:36,380 there. I know people are going to have some strong opinions 308 00:19:36,380 --> 00:19:40,240 about that, but here's what happens when I get to go into 309 00:19:40,240 --> 00:19:43,540 your space and walking into a locker room or clubhouse, it's 310 00:19:43,540 --> 00:19:47,320 very clinical. We're all there to do a job. They're sitting 311 00:19:47,320 --> 00:19:51,040 there most of the time dressed at their lockers. And by the 312 00:19:51,040 --> 00:19:53,380 way, if you see somebody who's getting ready to go to the 313 00:19:53,380 --> 00:19:55,960 shower, you know what's going to happen. You just turn the other 314 00:19:55,960 --> 00:19:59,200 direction and you walk the other way. But when you're in that 315 00:19:59,200 --> 00:20:02,280 space, and I'll. Make the rounds every day, I'll make the rounds. 316 00:20:02,280 --> 00:20:04,380 And whoever's sitting at their locker, I'm going to have a 317 00:20:04,380 --> 00:20:08,280 conversation, probably for 60 seconds, but it's going to be my 318 00:20:08,280 --> 00:20:10,920 touch point for the my day, and that's going to be the Hello, 319 00:20:10,920 --> 00:20:14,040 right as I build the relationship. If I never get to 320 00:20:14,040 --> 00:20:19,500 do that in a uniformed way, you've got to go about 321 00:20:19,500 --> 00:20:22,820 relationship building differently. So now when you 322 00:20:22,820 --> 00:20:26,600 come off the court, if my only chance to catch you is when 323 00:20:26,600 --> 00:20:29,780 you're coming off the court or going on the court, I've got to 324 00:20:29,780 --> 00:20:34,460 be even better and even more dialed in at recognizing the 325 00:20:34,460 --> 00:20:39,020 work that you do and making an impression on you. So that means 326 00:20:39,020 --> 00:20:42,160 I need to been paying attention to say I saw how many free 327 00:20:42,160 --> 00:20:45,340 throws you hit in practice that was really impressive, or that 328 00:20:45,340 --> 00:20:49,600 three ball that you nailed, I don't know how you did that. Off 329 00:20:49,600 --> 00:20:52,780 balance. That's all I need to say, is they're off after 330 00:20:52,780 --> 00:20:56,800 practice, right? I'm paying attention. I'm here for you like 331 00:20:56,920 --> 00:20:59,440 I I want to know more about you. 332 00:21:00,100 --> 00:21:06,660 Janice Porter: Love it. I saw a couple of clips on, I think it 333 00:21:06,660 --> 00:21:09,720 was YouTube of a program that you do. You still do this 334 00:21:09,720 --> 00:21:10,560 program, the cooking 335 00:21:10,559 --> 00:21:13,379 Jen Mueller: show I do. It's called, I cook, you measure, 336 00:21:13,439 --> 00:21:17,879 yeah. It is on YouTube, yeah. So I bring most of the time it's 337 00:21:17,879 --> 00:21:21,139 professional athletes. Sometimes it's also media personalities 338 00:21:21,139 --> 00:21:24,619 into the kitchen with me, and it is exactly how it sounds. I do 339 00:21:24,679 --> 00:21:28,219 the cooking, they do the measuring, and to I would say, 340 00:21:28,219 --> 00:21:32,479 varying degrees of success. Some of these folks have a lot of 341 00:21:32,479 --> 00:21:35,299 experience in the kitchen. Others are learning how to use a 342 00:21:35,299 --> 00:21:39,679 can opener for the first time. But the idea is we're going to 343 00:21:39,679 --> 00:21:42,579 learn more about you in a setting that everybody is 344 00:21:42,579 --> 00:21:47,079 familiar with. It is an icebreaker, and now it's the 345 00:21:47,559 --> 00:21:51,339 athletes are humans too. Yeah, and also, we're going to learn 346 00:21:51,339 --> 00:21:53,259 together on a few of these things and have some 347 00:21:53,259 --> 00:21:56,739 conversations. How did you come up with that? Well, a dear 348 00:21:56,739 --> 00:21:59,799 friend of mine who works on the mariners radio broadcast was 349 00:21:59,799 --> 00:22:02,819 brainstorming with me when we were on a flight home. I think 350 00:22:02,819 --> 00:22:06,059 it was from Cleveland a handful of years ago, and during the 351 00:22:06,059 --> 00:22:08,759 pandemic, I, like everybody else, did a lot of cooking at 352 00:22:08,759 --> 00:22:11,939 home. I would post a lot of pictures on Instagram. And she 353 00:22:11,939 --> 00:22:15,419 said, you know, you need to come up with a way to make that work 354 00:22:15,419 --> 00:22:18,779 for you. Like that needs to be something. And so a couple of 355 00:22:18,779 --> 00:22:22,399 glasses of wine later, it was, you know, there's a cooking 356 00:22:22,399 --> 00:22:28,759 show, and I have excelled at creating feature programming 357 00:22:28,819 --> 00:22:32,659 around professional athletes for years. So it has been my job for 358 00:22:32,719 --> 00:22:36,679 20 years to create that content that is memorable, that helps 359 00:22:36,679 --> 00:22:39,139 you fall in love with your favorite player, that keeps you 360 00:22:39,139 --> 00:22:42,519 engaged. So this is an extension of what I have been doing for 361 00:22:42,519 --> 00:22:46,359 years, but it's in my own kitchen, cooking recipes and 362 00:22:46,359 --> 00:22:48,639 doing something else that I love, outside of sports, 363 00:22:48,880 --> 00:22:51,340 Janice Porter: that's fantastic. I love it. Now, you may have 364 00:22:51,340 --> 00:22:54,280 answered this question, but I'm I want to just make sure it's 365 00:22:54,280 --> 00:22:58,060 covered. What you talk about success statements, what are 366 00:22:58,120 --> 00:23:00,720 they and how can professionals use them to build trust? 367 00:23:01,200 --> 00:23:04,440 Jen Mueller: That is your response to the question. How 368 00:23:04,440 --> 00:23:08,520 are you this is where we take that if it's going to be a 369 00:23:08,520 --> 00:23:11,700 conversational Norman script, because you and I both know it's 370 00:23:11,700 --> 00:23:14,820 not a great question for any number of reasons, but we're 371 00:23:14,820 --> 00:23:17,820 also not going to stop the question from happening, because 372 00:23:17,820 --> 00:23:20,840 it's a default setting for us. And you know what? In some 373 00:23:20,840 --> 00:23:25,160 cases, that's okay, but here's what we need to recognize, that 374 00:23:25,160 --> 00:23:29,360 is the most pivotal moment in every single conversation. We 375 00:23:29,360 --> 00:23:33,140 tend to treat that as the throw away, because we'll go through 376 00:23:33,140 --> 00:23:37,340 the How are you good? How are you good? And then we'll sit 377 00:23:37,340 --> 00:23:41,320 there and we'll wait for the conversation to start, yeah, why 378 00:23:41,320 --> 00:23:44,320 don't we just get a running start on this and deliver a 379 00:23:44,320 --> 00:23:47,680 success statement, which is a one sentence response to the 380 00:23:47,680 --> 00:23:51,700 question, how are you that answers the question so you can 381 00:23:51,700 --> 00:23:54,820 still be good, fine, great, trending in the right direction, 382 00:23:55,420 --> 00:23:59,980 but we're going to go one step further and Say why I'm awesome, 383 00:24:00,460 --> 00:24:05,040 because I am energized by the podcast that I take today, 384 00:24:06,060 --> 00:24:08,700 here's what we have done. We have highlighted something that 385 00:24:08,700 --> 00:24:12,540 we are proud of, that we feel like is an accomplishment, and I 386 00:24:12,540 --> 00:24:15,540 have made the follow up questions easy and obvious. I 387 00:24:15,540 --> 00:24:19,500 have taken that conversation and pointed it exactly where I want 388 00:24:19,500 --> 00:24:22,400 it to go. If I'm talking to a manager at work, the 389 00:24:22,400 --> 00:24:25,820 conversation sounds like this, I'm awesome and I am ahead of 390 00:24:25,820 --> 00:24:29,540 schedule on the show that I promise to deliver next week. In 391 00:24:29,540 --> 00:24:33,740 theory, any manager that I've ever reported to as a TV 392 00:24:33,740 --> 00:24:37,100 personality knows that I'm showing up to work because I am 393 00:24:37,100 --> 00:24:41,620 on TV, but what I want to make sure I highlight as a successes. 394 00:24:41,920 --> 00:24:44,620 I'm actually ahead of schedule. I'm going to make your job 395 00:24:44,620 --> 00:24:48,340 easier by keeping workflow on track for everybody else. If 396 00:24:48,340 --> 00:24:51,820 we're thinking about advocating for ourselves in other ways, you 397 00:24:51,820 --> 00:24:55,420 work in sales, you're reporting your quarterly results. I'm 398 00:24:55,420 --> 00:25:01,020 awesome, and I have exceeded my second quarter goals by 12% And 399 00:25:01,020 --> 00:25:03,960 nobody else is going to know this if you don't bring it to 400 00:25:03,960 --> 00:25:09,180 their attention, and if they don't ask questions, it's okay, 401 00:25:09,480 --> 00:25:14,640 because I just took that moment and I used it for me. I can walk 402 00:25:14,640 --> 00:25:20,040 away from that conversation, and I know I made an impression that 403 00:25:20,040 --> 00:25:23,840 I did the best I could to advocate for myself in about 15 404 00:25:23,840 --> 00:25:24,440 seconds. 405 00:25:24,920 --> 00:25:27,500 Janice Porter: Okay, that's very interesting to me. I'm glad I 406 00:25:27,500 --> 00:25:31,760 asked it a different way then that you said that, because I 407 00:25:32,060 --> 00:25:36,920 tend, because of that question, which, you know, it's 408 00:25:36,920 --> 00:25:41,140 everywhere, like you said the default, I tend to turn it the 409 00:25:41,140 --> 00:25:45,520 other way and say, I'll just, you know, brief, like I'm 410 00:25:45,520 --> 00:25:48,820 thinking about sort of in the grocery store or in in a 411 00:25:48,820 --> 00:25:52,540 networking event or something, where I might say, I'm doing 412 00:25:52,540 --> 00:25:55,720 great. How are you doing? What's going on with you? And turning 413 00:25:55,720 --> 00:26:00,180 it back to them and not advocating for myself, yeah, 414 00:26:00,180 --> 00:26:03,420 Jen Mueller: and you know, there are absolutely times and ways to 415 00:26:03,420 --> 00:26:06,360 do that. I'm not saying that we should never ask the other 416 00:26:06,360 --> 00:26:06,900 person or 417 00:26:06,900 --> 00:26:09,420 Janice Porter: open. No, I know you're not saying that, but, but 418 00:26:09,420 --> 00:26:13,500 what you're saying is that it's an opportunity. It is advocate 419 00:26:13,500 --> 00:26:17,100 for yourself. And I'm saying I don't, I never thought about 420 00:26:17,100 --> 00:26:17,460 that. 421 00:26:17,519 --> 00:26:19,859 Jen Mueller: Yeah, yeah. So if you were looking to book more 422 00:26:19,859 --> 00:26:22,339 podcast guest, and you don't know where your next most 423 00:26:22,339 --> 00:26:26,119 interesting you know interview subject is going to be if you've 424 00:26:26,179 --> 00:26:28,939 always got it at the ready, because we can look at our 425 00:26:28,939 --> 00:26:32,719 schedule and know generally where we're going to be. We know 426 00:26:32,719 --> 00:26:34,819 who we're going to be in a meeting with, or we know that 427 00:26:34,819 --> 00:26:37,639 we're going to the coffee shop or the grocery store. It's just 428 00:26:37,639 --> 00:26:40,899 one line. I taped two podcasts today. I feel pretty good about 429 00:26:40,899 --> 00:26:44,859 myself. Got it now, if they're interested, oh, you've had a 430 00:26:44,859 --> 00:26:48,339 podcast, yeah. Oh, what's your podcast about? How often do you 431 00:26:48,339 --> 00:26:51,759 tape? When do you have people on? And now you you're 432 00:26:51,759 --> 00:26:57,219 prospecting clients or potential guests? Yes, without trying very 433 00:26:57,219 --> 00:26:57,579 hard. 434 00:26:58,180 --> 00:27:01,560 Janice Porter: Okay, so I noticed on LinkedIn that you had 435 00:27:01,560 --> 00:27:09,120 done. Sorry, there's noise going on here. You did a post a week 436 00:27:09,120 --> 00:27:13,080 ago. I don't get to avoid tough conversations after a loss. My 437 00:27:13,080 --> 00:27:16,320 job is to conduct post game interviews, win or lose. Never 438 00:27:16,320 --> 00:27:19,020 thought about it that way. Everyone gets a few minutes to 439 00:27:19,020 --> 00:27:21,800 catch their breath, and then we dive into what happened. It's 440 00:27:21,800 --> 00:27:24,740 performance review and a post mortem that plays out in front 441 00:27:24,740 --> 00:27:29,180 of a large audience. What? What message did you bring to the 442 00:27:29,180 --> 00:27:35,240 group you were talking to, which was a CFO round table in can you 443 00:27:35,240 --> 00:27:36,020 share a bit of 444 00:27:36,019 --> 00:27:41,139 Jen Mueller: that? Yes, so most people don't think about the 445 00:27:41,139 --> 00:27:44,319 conversations that happen after a loss when they find out that 446 00:27:44,319 --> 00:27:48,099 I'm a sideline reporter, it's usually like, oh my gosh, that's 447 00:27:48,099 --> 00:27:52,419 so cool. Like, it must be so fun. It is most of the time, 448 00:27:52,599 --> 00:27:55,899 most of the time, and the expectations don't change after 449 00:27:55,899 --> 00:28:00,899 a loss. Here's what I tell CFOs, and I tell all of my corporate 450 00:28:00,899 --> 00:28:04,619 clients in this setting, there's a few things that actually make 451 00:28:04,619 --> 00:28:10,439 these conversations easy, obvious and expected. I would 452 00:28:10,439 --> 00:28:14,699 much rather be talking about a win than a loss, but when I walk 453 00:28:14,699 --> 00:28:18,239 in there after a loss, because of the way things have been 454 00:28:18,239 --> 00:28:23,839 communicated before the game by coaches, GMs, front offices, 455 00:28:23,839 --> 00:28:29,239 captains of the team, if they come up short, those players 456 00:28:29,239 --> 00:28:32,719 know what exactly we're talking about. And so those tough 457 00:28:32,719 --> 00:28:35,299 conversations, the ones that we try to kick, you know, down the 458 00:28:35,299 --> 00:28:37,939 road in business, and we're just going to give them some time to 459 00:28:37,939 --> 00:28:40,299 catch their breath, and we'll circle back around in a week or 460 00:28:40,299 --> 00:28:44,499 10 days. Look, everybody knows what's about to happen, so let's 461 00:28:44,499 --> 00:28:48,219 just hit this head on. My athletes want me to be very 462 00:28:48,219 --> 00:28:51,519 direct. If you were the one that missed the free throw with a 463 00:28:51,519 --> 00:28:54,819 chance to win it with two seconds to go, they know they 464 00:28:54,819 --> 00:28:57,519 missed the free throw, and they know that you're going to ask 465 00:28:57,519 --> 00:29:01,139 about it, because the expectation was it's your job to 466 00:29:01,139 --> 00:29:04,859 make the free throw, right and so you just go right after it. 467 00:29:04,859 --> 00:29:09,359 And you don't have to be you don't have to be ugly or rude 468 00:29:09,359 --> 00:29:14,339 about it, but the kind thing to do is to walk right up and say, 469 00:29:14,339 --> 00:29:19,439 We have seen you make that shot so many times. What happened on 470 00:29:19,439 --> 00:29:23,419 that final attempt? Right now, I'm just going to open it up, 471 00:29:23,419 --> 00:29:26,539 and I'm going to give you a chance to tell me the story of 472 00:29:26,539 --> 00:29:29,179 that play. That's always how I'm thinking about a post game 473 00:29:29,179 --> 00:29:32,899 interview. It's your chance to tell me the story of what 474 00:29:32,899 --> 00:29:35,959 happened. We can agree or disagree as to whether that's 475 00:29:35,959 --> 00:29:38,839 actually what happened, whether I think you should have hustled 476 00:29:38,839 --> 00:29:42,099 hard or I think you should have done that, but this is your 477 00:29:42,099 --> 00:29:47,919 chance to do this. The cool thing in sports is the objective 478 00:29:47,919 --> 00:29:51,039 is very clear. In basketball, and this is going to sound 479 00:29:51,039 --> 00:29:56,799 ridiculous in basketball, the objective is to score more 480 00:29:56,859 --> 00:30:00,359 points than the other team. It is painfully obvious. That's the 481 00:30:00,359 --> 00:30:03,059 objective. If you don't reach that objective, that 482 00:30:03,059 --> 00:30:05,519 conversation about accountability and feedback is 483 00:30:05,519 --> 00:30:08,339 actually fairly easy, because everybody knows we didn't reach 484 00:30:08,339 --> 00:30:12,119 the objective. The waters get muddied in business all the 485 00:30:12,119 --> 00:30:17,579 time, because what the CEO thinks is a success, or the CFO 486 00:30:17,579 --> 00:30:21,079 thinks is a success is not necessarily. What your sales 487 00:30:21,079 --> 00:30:24,559 manager thinks is a success is not what I think a success is. 488 00:30:24,739 --> 00:30:29,719 And so we need to be really clear going in, so that when we 489 00:30:29,779 --> 00:30:33,319 come out of situations, everybody is actually on the 490 00:30:33,319 --> 00:30:36,439 same page, and they're expecting that feedback and that 491 00:30:36,439 --> 00:30:37,219 accountability. 492 00:30:38,059 --> 00:30:43,479 Janice Porter: So when you did this presentation last week, I 493 00:30:43,479 --> 00:30:47,979 think you called it. Her fun and informative. Stories about 494 00:30:47,979 --> 00:30:51,279 influential conversations. I talked to losers sparked some 495 00:30:51,279 --> 00:30:55,359 great conversations. So did you? Are your presentations 496 00:30:55,359 --> 00:31:00,879 interactive? Do you you must get a lot of conversation started. 497 00:31:00,939 --> 00:31:01,979 For sure, we we 498 00:31:02,100 --> 00:31:04,320 Jen Mueller: do get a lot of conversation started, and 499 00:31:04,680 --> 00:31:09,060 there's a lot of thought around how to use our words in 500 00:31:09,060 --> 00:31:13,860 different ways, how to use one word to change the conversation, 501 00:31:14,100 --> 00:31:18,480 just overall feel and what we get out of it, the value that we 502 00:31:18,480 --> 00:31:21,680 add to somebody. So we do spend time doing things like that. 503 00:31:22,820 --> 00:31:26,360 Here's here's one that we did, in fact, actually in that same 504 00:31:26,360 --> 00:31:29,900 session. So part of tough conversations, accountability 505 00:31:29,900 --> 00:31:35,300 and feedback is giving accurate praise to begin with. We are 506 00:31:35,300 --> 00:31:39,380 terrible at doing that in business, but coaches, great 507 00:31:39,380 --> 00:31:43,540 coaches in sports and high performers are phenomenal at 508 00:31:43,540 --> 00:31:48,460 giving accurate praise and feedback. We tend to default to 509 00:31:48,460 --> 00:31:51,160 the same thing over and over again. We would say things like, 510 00:31:51,160 --> 00:31:56,500 you did a great job, right? How was dinner last night? Oh, it 511 00:31:56,500 --> 00:31:59,920 was great. Oh, how was your weekend? It was great. We use 512 00:31:59,920 --> 00:32:02,940 great for everything, like a version of great for everything. 513 00:32:03,000 --> 00:32:06,120 So what I'll have the audience do is shout out a few other 514 00:32:06,120 --> 00:32:11,220 words of what actually was dinner, because a chef does not 515 00:32:11,220 --> 00:32:13,740 want to hear that Dinner was great. I have done this exercise 516 00:32:13,740 --> 00:32:16,740 with chefs. In fact, a few weeks ago, I did this with chefs, and 517 00:32:16,740 --> 00:32:19,380 I had everybody in the room and I said, tell me how your dinner 518 00:32:19,380 --> 00:32:22,280 was last night. We're sitting at the restaurant with the 519 00:32:22,280 --> 00:32:26,120 executive chef, and they said it was great. And I turned to the 520 00:32:26,120 --> 00:32:28,640 executive chef, and I said, is that what you wanted to hear? 521 00:32:28,760 --> 00:32:31,940 And his shoulders are slumped over. And I said, No, it's not. 522 00:32:32,420 --> 00:32:36,020 I said, Well, what did you want to hear? It was, well, I was 523 00:32:36,020 --> 00:32:40,360 hoping somebody would say it was savory. It was memorable. It was 524 00:32:40,360 --> 00:32:44,380 scrumptious. It was, you know, the flavors melded together. And 525 00:32:44,380 --> 00:32:47,800 so now you start figuring out how to use your full range of 526 00:32:47,800 --> 00:32:53,020 words. So we will do things like that, because one word changes 527 00:32:53,020 --> 00:32:57,160 the entire feeling and meaning of a sentence. So you really 528 00:32:57,160 --> 00:32:57,640 have to 529 00:32:58,839 --> 00:33:06,359 Janice Porter: be present and take and and and think more more 530 00:33:06,359 --> 00:33:07,799 deeply really 531 00:33:07,919 --> 00:33:11,459 Jen Mueller: you do because it so. If you're just trying to pay 532 00:33:11,459 --> 00:33:15,599 a compliment to somebody, you could say you did a great job. 533 00:33:15,779 --> 00:33:19,799 Yeah, and I'll take a compliment like I will say, thank you so 534 00:33:19,799 --> 00:33:22,639 much. I really appreciate you recognizing that now, if 535 00:33:22,639 --> 00:33:27,619 somebody said, I can't believe how much time you spent 536 00:33:28,039 --> 00:33:32,659 preparing for our conversation, I really enjoyed the connection 537 00:33:33,139 --> 00:33:37,159 that's different. Or instead of saying you did a great job to 538 00:33:37,159 --> 00:33:42,579 say you were well prepared, that doesn't sound like it's better 539 00:33:42,579 --> 00:33:48,459 than great. Oh, wait, does that land so much more well, you did 540 00:33:48,459 --> 00:33:49,119 a great job. 541 00:33:49,179 --> 00:33:51,279 Janice Porter: You noticed something. You noticed 542 00:33:51,279 --> 00:33:55,119 something, right? Totally. I get I love it. Okay? I think I could 543 00:33:55,119 --> 00:33:57,699 talk to you forever, but I think I have to sort of round up, 544 00:33:57,999 --> 00:34:01,379 round it up a little bit, and I want to ask one last question 545 00:34:01,379 --> 00:34:05,579 around the work that you do and and maybe a couple of quick, 546 00:34:06,179 --> 00:34:09,419 quick fires after that. If there's one actionable takeaway 547 00:34:09,419 --> 00:34:13,739 that my listeners can try today to build can use today. I hate 548 00:34:13,739 --> 00:34:17,639 that word try can use today to build better relationships. What 549 00:34:17,639 --> 00:34:19,979 would it be if there's one actionable takeaway, 550 00:34:21,779 --> 00:34:24,799 Jen Mueller: recognize the power of small conversations and 551 00:34:24,799 --> 00:34:28,519 practice on somebody you don't know. Talk to somebody so that 552 00:34:28,519 --> 00:34:32,179 that Hello gets easier, so that you can practice a success 553 00:34:32,179 --> 00:34:35,719 statement in a low stakes environment. You are never going 554 00:34:35,719 --> 00:34:39,019 to get good at the big conversations and those big 555 00:34:39,019 --> 00:34:42,939 moments if you don't find small ways to practice and they are 556 00:34:43,059 --> 00:34:44,019 everywhere. 557 00:34:44,260 --> 00:34:46,300 Janice Porter: They are, they are. I love that. That's That's 558 00:34:46,300 --> 00:34:49,900 amazing. Thanks. Jen, that's a great tip. I might have to use 559 00:34:49,900 --> 00:34:55,060 that in my newsletter from you as well. Please do okay, um, all 560 00:34:55,060 --> 00:34:58,660 right, so where can people find you? And it'll be in the show 561 00:34:58,660 --> 00:34:59,620 notes. Yep, 562 00:34:59,620 --> 00:35:02,460 Jen Mueller: you can. Find me at talk sporty to me.com Okay, 563 00:35:02,460 --> 00:35:05,340 that's the easiest way to find me. Talk sporty to me on the 564 00:35:05,340 --> 00:35:08,520 socials. And if you're interested in the cooking show I 565 00:35:08,520 --> 00:35:11,460 cook you measure on YouTube is where you can find all the 566 00:35:11,520 --> 00:35:12,300 episodes. 567 00:35:12,300 --> 00:35:15,480 Janice Porter: And are you still found on on the field or in the 568 00:35:16,020 --> 00:35:16,380 I 569 00:35:16,380 --> 00:35:18,960 Jen Mueller: am you can still watch me on mariners baseball 570 00:35:18,960 --> 00:35:23,360 games at home, and I am entering my 17th season as the Seahawks 571 00:35:23,360 --> 00:35:24,680 radio sideline reporter, 572 00:35:24,980 --> 00:35:27,680 Janice Porter: and if I turn on the mariners game, I wouldn't, 573 00:35:27,680 --> 00:35:30,380 but my husband would I can say, oh, there's Jen. I know 574 00:35:30,380 --> 00:35:32,840 Jen Mueller: that's right. I'll be dodging the Gatorade bath 575 00:35:32,840 --> 00:35:34,040 after the game. Yep, 576 00:35:35,060 --> 00:35:38,300 Janice Porter: I love it. Okay, so quick, quick fire for you. 577 00:35:39,320 --> 00:35:45,460 You, you strike me as a very high energy person and a great 578 00:35:45,460 --> 00:35:49,000 conversationalist. I've enjoyed talking to you both times. Now, 579 00:35:49,660 --> 00:35:54,040 what do you do to you know, get away from your work. What do you 580 00:35:54,040 --> 00:35:55,540 like to do when you're not working? 581 00:35:55,720 --> 00:35:58,060 Jen Mueller: I will probably be cooking and having a glass of 582 00:35:58,060 --> 00:36:01,200 wine. There's lots of great wine in Washington State. Yes, I 583 00:36:01,200 --> 00:36:05,400 enjoy popping out to a winery and just having a glass of wine. 584 00:36:05,640 --> 00:36:08,820 Janice Porter: Perfect. What's your favorite kind of meal to go 585 00:36:08,820 --> 00:36:11,040 out to restaurant to? Oh, 586 00:36:11,940 --> 00:36:16,920 Jen Mueller: that's a hard one. I will never say no to any 587 00:36:16,920 --> 00:36:20,400 version of Tex Mex, Mexican food, like Southwest food. 588 00:36:20,640 --> 00:36:22,580 Janice Porter: I thought that was going to be the answer. Oh 589 00:36:22,580 --> 00:36:25,940 Jen Mueller: no, okay, it's the one that I'm probably not going 590 00:36:25,940 --> 00:36:28,580 to make as well at home, like I can make it well, but there's 591 00:36:28,580 --> 00:36:31,580 something about going out for Mexican food with the chips and 592 00:36:31,580 --> 00:36:34,040 salsa. That's probably what I will do, 593 00:36:34,280 --> 00:36:38,060 Janice Porter: what I expected. Okay, all right. And last 594 00:36:38,060 --> 00:36:44,560 question, I like to I love the word curiosity, and I would like 595 00:36:44,560 --> 00:36:46,900 to know there's no right or wrong answer, but there's two 596 00:36:46,900 --> 00:36:49,420 parts to this question, and it will, I promise, be the last 597 00:36:49,420 --> 00:36:55,360 question. Do you think curiosity is innate or learned? And part 598 00:36:55,360 --> 00:36:59,260 two is, what are you most curious about these days? Ooh, 599 00:37:00,640 --> 00:37:02,700 Jen Mueller: I I think we can learn to be curious. I think 600 00:37:02,700 --> 00:37:05,580 some people are naturally curious, but I do think we can 601 00:37:05,580 --> 00:37:09,540 learn to be curious. And what I am curious about right now, 602 00:37:09,960 --> 00:37:16,080 quite honestly, is how to make a big transition. I watch athletes 603 00:37:16,080 --> 00:37:18,960 do it all the time when they change careers, and there gets 604 00:37:18,960 --> 00:37:22,940 to be a certain part point where you get curious about, hey, what 605 00:37:22,940 --> 00:37:25,940 else could I be doing? And I'm really curious about how to do 606 00:37:26,000 --> 00:37:31,160 that well, and how to find different ways to serve the 607 00:37:31,160 --> 00:37:33,440 community that I haven't been able 608 00:37:33,440 --> 00:37:35,900 Janice Porter: to do yet. Oh, you're on your way. I think, 609 00:37:36,560 --> 00:37:40,300 well, thank you. I think so yes. So thank you for being here 610 00:37:40,300 --> 00:37:44,920 today. I hope my audience enjoyed what your what you had 611 00:37:44,920 --> 00:37:48,700 to say, and please remember if you do to leave a review, we'd 612 00:37:48,700 --> 00:37:51,880 love that, and to touch base with Jen and follow what she's 613 00:37:51,880 --> 00:37:55,720 up to. I think that her insights remind us that strong business 614 00:37:55,720 --> 00:37:59,080 relationships aren't built on time. They're built on 615 00:37:59,080 --> 00:38:02,160 intention. Whether you're at a networking event, a team 616 00:38:02,160 --> 00:38:04,920 meeting, or making a first impression, the ability to 617 00:38:04,920 --> 00:38:07,380 connect quickly and authentically is a true 618 00:38:07,380 --> 00:38:10,680 competitive advantage. Jen's techniques prove that with the 619 00:38:10,680 --> 00:38:13,740 right approach, even the shortest conversations can leave 620 00:38:13,800 --> 00:38:17,460 the deepest impact. So thank you. Thank you for those 621 00:38:17,820 --> 00:38:21,560 insights today, Jen, and appreciate you being here and 622 00:38:21,560 --> 00:38:22,580 taking the time to be with 623 00:38:22,580 --> 00:38:25,700 Jen Mueller: us. I really enjoyed the conversation. Thanks 624 00:38:25,700 --> 00:38:26,540 so much. Janice, 625 00:38:26,540 --> 00:38:29,120 Janice Porter: my pleasure and to my audience, remember to stay 626 00:38:29,120 --> 00:38:30,740 connected and be remembered. You.