Eve Simmons (00:00.128)

I was really suppressing all of the ambitious professional parts of me. All the kind of extracurricular stuff that I really loved to do, I wasn't doing. The days where I was working on a project that I was totally consumed by and I really loved, I really felt alive. I think what I was ignoring is that actually that's not really me.

Alexia Usgaard

Welcome to Elevate Daily, the podcast for those ready to elevate their life one intentional day at a time. I'm your host, Alexia Ouskard, here to give you a permission slip to unapologetically savor the beauty and richness of life. Join me as we explore modern rituals, self-leadership, the gene keys, and the art of elevating your health, wealth, love, and leadership. It's time to elevate. Let's dive in.

Hello, hello, my loves and welcome back to Elevate Daily. I'm Alexia Ouskard and I am so enthused as always to have you here for today's conversation, which I thoroughly enjoyed and I have no doubts you will too, especially if you've ever wondered whether you have to choose between your ambition and your deep desire to experience sacred partnership. My guest today is Eve Simmons, a journalist and author based in London.

Her most recent book, What She Did Next, was born from a moment that completely dismantled the life she thought she was living. After nearly a decade in partnership and just months into marriage, everything changed, suddenly and without warning, forcing Eve into a profound reckoning with her identity, with her truth and self-trust. In this episode, we explore what so many navigate, the subtle ways we dim our power,

the ways we edit our ambitions to not be quotes too much, and the ways we suppress our truth to make partnership and frankly our relationships feel safe. We talk about the difference between loving someone and actually liking them and why the scariest collapses often become our greatest liberations. I also weave in, of course, a few of Eve's gene keys, her mission code and her meaning code.

Alexia Usgaard (02:14.722)

beautifully mirroring her journey into wholeness and alignment. So whether you're in partnership, calling one in, or standing at a threshold where an old version of yourself is being asked to fall away, this is your permission slip to unapologetically claim who you truly are because that is what allows both your ambitious spirit and your desire for deep, nourishing love to coexist. Eva's so fun, she's so real, she's so raw.

and I just know you're going to thoroughly enjoy her as much as I do. So without further ado, let's dive in.

Alexia Usgaard (02:56.622)

Hey, so Eve, welcome to Elevate Daily. It's so good to have you here. Thank you we're here on our comfy couch, the couch of mine that's called The Cloud.

the most comfortable couch I think I've ever sat on in my life. Which is like dangerous for a new mom.

We're quite a combo, hey, we've got a pregnant woman and you just had a baby five months ago. I did. And I would just actually love to open with that. Something that I really love to stand for on this show is that while we're all out honoring our ambitions, honoring our missions, also we want to honor the gift of making our success delicious. So in this season of your life, I know we're going get into all the juiciness of your story and a lot of what you've walked with and some of the very...

pivotal moments that have challenged you, but I want to just take a moment to honor the moment you're in right now. You're with a new partner, like I said, have a new baby, launching a new book into the world. So yeah, what's delicious for you

Yeah, well I have two babies. One is the baby that I wrote before the first baby even existed and the other one is an actual baby. So yeah, I mean, I'm like always writing. I'm a journalist by nature and profession. But now I have an actual full book of glory and everything that I have really poured my heart and soul into and...

Eve Simmons (04:22.51)

I can't believe that the time has come for it to actually be released into the wild. And I hope people are nice. And I hope I don't get sued.

Hey, you know, I think people don't realize what it takes to be a writer and to be an artist and to share it. Because I know for me, I had the gift of reading your book. And it's so vulnerable and so courageous. And I think it's so great because I could feel your voice. mean, getting to know you and then reading your book, it's so beautiful when you really feel your voice in the writing. Especially in the era we're now where a lot of writing, a lot of content can just feel like that soul isn't always there. Like I could just...

could feel you. could picture so many scenes. You painted so beautifully. So vulnerably, which, it can be very easy to almost keep things a little bit on the surface, but you didn't. You got real. You got raw. And what an invitation, I think, for anyone who gets to witness your words.

That's so lovely of you to say.

Eve Simmons(05:15.822)

Oh, that's so kind. I really don't know any other way to write, to be honest. I don't know any other way to be, especially when I'm writing about issues that are so personal and explaining stories and things that have happened to me. I guess I just, yeah, I just write as I think and in a way that I feel would be entertaining and comforting to anyone else in a similar position, really. A lot of people have said to me, didn't you have to be really careful in the way you're writing? Obviously it's very personal and it involves other people and different parties.

And the answer is yes, I did, but only in like post-production because when I wrote it, I just wrote the only way I know how really. And I did find it quite tricky to then go back and have to take out bits of, I guess you'd say my authentic self, but for very good reason.

Okay, I now of course have to go rogue and ask you one other question because I feel like so many of the incredible ladies who listen are writers, creators, artists who are sharing their voice in the world. Do you have a ritual or something that supports you with sitting down and writing in that place and actually letting that part of you come out?

don't really have a ritual, a kind of specific ritual, but I would say that I definitely like to write when I have no other sort of plans for the day. I like to have a day where I know that however long it takes, takes because sometimes if I'm in a zone, I just want to continue. I also really like to write, I've always done this, with like some nice food. So I don't know whether that's...

I was like, I gotta know the quirks. Like what's the quirks of your creative process? Because that's the stuff that we all get so intrigued.

Eve Simmons(07:01.35)

When I wrote the bulk of the book, which I wrote when I lived in New York, and obviously anyone who lives in New York will know that Uber Eats out there is next level. And so I would have this thing about different salad spots. I'm so wild. It's not like a burger or anything that interesting, but it would always just be like a different kind of salad with a funky dressing. And I would Uber Eats it to my apartment and then I would like enjoy it while I was writing. And I don't know. I don't know what that's about.

I think it used to be kind of distraction that if I was writing something at work that was boring, then I would be like, well, at least I can have my lunch at the same time. It's not all terrible. And then I guess it's just a habit that's continued. Yeah.

love it, because again, going back into making things delicious, you're literally making your creative writing process literally delicious. You found your way, and I think it's so interesting with different leaders, creatives, that when we're really channeling our best work, there's these little things we do that we often don't think are that big of a thing, but in a lot of ways are what keep us centered. And bring us that bit of joy. There's a joy probably in you going, okay, I'm going to be writing this piece, oof, it's going to be one that's going to...

challenge me, because to be a writer, to share your heart so deeply, it asks you to go to very specific places and dive into yourself. And so I love that you're like, well, I was doing that and I always had my delicious tasty salad. And I got to choose which one and I got to Uber Eats and that was kind of a huge part of my joy in it. And so I love it and thank you so much for sharing. It seems small, but it's like, I have things like that too. For me, it's like often a song. Like I have to, I get really into music or I'll play one song on repeat.

Pete.

Alexia Usgaard (08:39.203)

Like when I'm writing in like a very specific channel perspective, won't change the songs. I'll just want to listen to one song on repeat because I think there's something about the sound and the beat.

Yeah, so I find it really difficult to listen to music and write at the same time, even if it's just instrumental. Something in my brain can't kind of like separate the two things, which is really annoying because I feel like I'd be really interested in the creative inspiration that I'd get from various lyrics or, you know, music in general. like, I just can't. It doesn't work.

Isn't it interesting? Everyone's got their different things that bring them into that emotional space. For me, it's almost like I think the sound gets me into the emotion of them, what I'm going to like go into. And then I think for others, there's like different... we're all bringing in our senses. I noticed that's something I've noticed on this podcast. Whenever I've asked different versions of this question, is usually there's something that activates our senses that get us into that creative, imaginative space. And we all have to do it in our different ways. For some, it's sound, taste for you impacts. Like there's these different ways we do it, so...

Very interesting. Well, I want to get into your story of the moment the shoe dropped in your marriage. before that, I would actually love, before we go into that part of your story, I'd be really intrigued if we think about Eve before the shoe dropped. Like how you were existing, what was happening. Because I think for anyone listening, right? Like we all know, a huge conversation, I have a lot with clients.

How do we navigate being ambitious, women, and love? I'm in so many conversations about like, what does it really mean to call in this deep, sacred partnership? What does it look like? How does it work? How do we function? How can you have both? And I imagine that what you are now and how you are embodied today is different than that version of Eve in the past. And I'd be curious to when you like look back on that version of you.

Eve Simmons (10:18.008)

Yep.

Alexia Usgaard (10:46.072)

How did you relate to being this powerhouse journalist and being in this relationship for a long time and navigating the two?

It's interesting you use the word existing because I would say that's exactly what I was doing. I've always had this like, know, ambitious women, well, ambitious people have like a bit of a fire in their belly and always looking at the next thing and how can I achieve more? How can I do more? How can I be in a place that I'll feel professionally totally fulfilled? And I've always been like that really, especially about journalism and writing. And journalism is an interesting one as well because

The way that the industry has moved means that success in some ways to a lot of people, especially the kind of like younger generation that coming into the industry, success means something totally different to what it used to mean. So it used to mean like breaking a brilliant story and changing people's views or changing attitudes or having political movement that's related to something that you've reported, right? Or getting to the top of your game at a newspaper or a magazine.

or a broadcaster, whereas now it's like sort of being a person in the public eye who people are aware of. So that in itself is something that I'm still sort of grappling with, what does success mean to me in that realm? But anyway, I've gone off-piece. But so I think I was figuring out what success meant to me. And I think part of that was influenced by this trajectory that I saw myself on, which was, okay,

I've got engaged, I've got married, I need to have children. And so that's my focus right now. So I think, I think I was, I mean, hindsight's a beautiful thing, right? You can look back and think I was miserable, I was unhappy at the time. I wouldn't have known it really. But I think that part of my dissatisfaction came from the fact that I was really suppressing all of the ambitious professional parts of me, even though I was still like...

Eve Simmons (12:53.462)

obviously doing my job and whatever. All the extra-curricular stuff that I really loved to do, I wasn't doing because my partner wasn't that way inclined himself. We'd bought this lovely house in the suburbs and we had a dog. My life really was revolving around all of those domestic things, I guess. Then I was also going to work and I was really resenting, my work days are really long and blah, blah.

But when I look back now, I can see that the days where I was working on a project that I was totally consumed by and I really loved and I was finding fascinating and I thought that it was really important work, I really felt alive. And then I'd come home and sort of like, I'd have emails come through on the weekend and my partner, my husband at the time would kind of say, it's funny how those comments like really make an impact.

His attitude was, you shouldn't be working at the weekend, you're going to get stressed, it's not good for you, you need to have some switch off time. And there's sort of two sides to it, right? Like, yeah, part of it, he's right. But I think what I was ignoring is that actually that's not really me. And especially if I'm involved in something that I'm really passionate about and I want to be working on and I feel is important. You could ring me any time of the day or night and I will pick up the phone.

So I think I was fighting against that and there was a sort of quiet hum of dissatisfaction, I would say.

I love the way you named it, because I felt like when I read your book, something that was coming through for me a lot was just that reminder of all the ways we turn off that voice and the parts of our power, different parts of what we care about and our passions for the fear of being too much. Right? And when I feel into your story and when I feel what you just shared and when I feel into actually a lot of the stories of, because we're to go into it, but like you actually went and then researched.

Eve Simmons (14:44.461)

Yeah.

Alexia Usgaard (14:54.358)

and spoke to and brought a lot of other women's stories forward of their experiences, experiencing something very similar to what you did. And I just kept going, wow, isn't it so interesting? Because everyone acts like it should just be these big things we do. But it's often these really small ways we make ourselves smaller. It's like these really small ways we say, I guess I shouldn't pursue that side passion because, well, they're not that interested in it. Or...

yeah, maybe you're right. Like maybe I'm just being too much by like actually just wanting to name it. Like right now I'm doing this project that I'm obsessed with and this is my truth. Like I actually just want to be in that.

think the problem is that there's all these kind of rules that everybody likes to live by, whether they're conscious or subconscious. And one of those rules is like, go get your power, know, search for, find what you love and search for it and don't stop until you've got it. And then the other side of it is like, don't work too much, don't do too much. Make sure you have your off time, make sure you have your you time, don't get burned out. And I think that because of all of that noise, we sort of forget to listen to

what's inside and what's really pushing us towards what we love. And although they definitely look like, I'll admit I'm a bit of a workaholic. I do need, I'm kind of better at it now actually. Having a baby sort of forces you into enjoying your time off. But I really did in the past have a problem with switching off. But then I say I had a problem, but I also was doing all of these like...

really important things and things that I felt were really important to me and meeting amazing people and furthering my career. And so, yeah, I don't think that both things are mutually exclusive. If that makes sense. Yeah, I don't know. What am I saying?

Alexia Usgaard (16:45.646)

Well, no, what I hear in you is this invitation of everyone has to get really honest about their version of, know, like, I think if you're someone who loves their work, what a gift to be that person who loves it. You have a mission, you care a lot about it, and it's exhausting for you to probably pretend that you don't. And then there's others who have probably just have a different blueprint, have a different way of being where they may not have that same.

drive in their work and they have other passions and other curiosities. And I think this is where so many of the narratives and what I hear you sharing limits.

I also think that naturally what happens if you give yourself the free space and free, a kind of like rain to go and do whatever you really feel you desire to do professionally, then you naturally do have spaces where you're like, my God, I'm actually so exhausted. I need to just lie here and not do anything. But you feel like you're fulfilled. And yeah, and I think that's the real difference in now I actually think I do have more time. Well, Sans baby, but like I have more time.

where I really feel in myself that my body is telling me that I need to rest and I will make sure that I like go and do some yoga or whatever. Whereas before I was so confused about what I should be doing because I wasn't giving myself the space to do what I wanted to be doing, I think. So yeah, but as I said, hindsight's beautiful thing. And if you would have told Eve three years ago, all of this stuff, I probably would have been like, what? No, I need to...

chill out more. I'm such a workaholic and it's terrible for me and my brain and yeah.

Alexia Usgaard (18:19.571)

The power of divine timing. Yes. our evolution keeps it interesting.

universe, something just happens and...

It really is. As much as we can all try to plan, I think that's what's so interesting, right? And this is where it'd be so interesting to go into now your story of like, let's go back to that moment where the shoe drops. And I say the shoe drops because I think what's so powerful is so many people fear what you experience. And I'm sure there's probably part of you that feared that experience. And yet, I mean, first off, look at you now. But also, you know, whether it's a relationship or any area of your life,

we all naturally in some way experience some version of our relative shoe dropping moment. And it's, I think, just such a reminder of like, you can plan all you want. You can follow every norm. You can follow every societal pressure in terms of, okay, you're supposed to be engaged by this age. You're supposed to do this by this age. Everyone, I mean, gosh, the biological clock part of the story. It's just, there's all this pressure and that you can just subconsciously buy into. And so for you,

Yeah.

Alexia Usgaard (19:23.246)

If you want to give some of the context, I know you were in a relationship for a while. What was it?

Nine years?

nine years, then you get married, right? So now probably everyone's like, great, they finally have gotten married. You guys have already been doing the thing, right? Like you do the whole thing.

We were living together, we bought two separate places together, we'd just bought a house.

whole life, and then suddenly you receive this news.

Eve Simmons (19:50.35)

Yeah, so we just had a sort second honeymoon. We got married in May, 2022. And then in November, 2022, I came home from work one day and my husband presented me with a bowl of pasta for dinner, which was lovely. He was a very good cook, still is, I'm sure. And said to me that he felt that our relationship wasn't working and he wasn't sure that he wanted to be married, which...

felt like a big emotional outpouring on that day. Obviously I was totally shocked and horrified and ran to the toilet to be sick. I just felt like the world had totally fallen out of my bum and it was horrific. But there was that day conversation about he was confused, he hadn't spoken to anyone about it yet, he wasn't sure what he was feeling and he really needed me to be sympathetic, which I was. And I just thought, okay, like we need relationship counseling.

we can get back on track. You've obviously just had a bit of a wobble. It's fine. Like we got married relatively young. I mean, I was 30 and he was 29 or just 10, 30. And so I just said, look, let's like regroup. We'll talk about it. Keep talking, blah, blah, blah. But obviously in my brain is like fire, fire, fire. And then the next day I assumed what would happen was I would get a message because I went into work having had no sleep, obviously.

I assumed I'd get a message saying, let's talk tonight and we can discuss everything and set up a plan and blah, blah. And I love you. And I what I actually got was at 2.30 in the afternoon. So the whole morning, nothing. 2.30 in afternoon, I had a message saying, I'm going to go out with the boys because it will give you some space. To which I then replied saying, I think we need to talk, please. Anyway, what transpired was several evenings of talking, which really was just him.

convincing himself more and more that this wasn't for him. There was a lot of sort of character assassination type conversations. So everything that I had done wrong in the relationship and the reasons that he was unhappy, even though I had no idea of this. We were actually also trying for a baby and I'd gone to various fertility appointments to make sure everything was okay and assumed and also checked obviously that he was fine with it.

Eve Simmons (22:13.794)

given his physical activities with me, I would think that he was fine with it. And we then came to the conclusion that we would have to separate and sell our house. And I was obviously like totally heartbroken and depressed and thought that my life was completely over and that he'd ruined my life. I mean, he really had ruined my life.

And there was sort of irritating details within it. I irritating, probably not the best word to use. But for instance, he didn't want to leave our shared house because he was from a different area of the UK. And so going back home was a really difficult thing for him to do and working as well, because he worked in London. Whereas my mum lived about 15, 20 minute drive away. So he didn't want to leave the house.

And that was really tough because it meant that either we had to stay in the same house or I had to go and live with my mum, which like, obviously it's not the end of the world, but I was 31 year old woman not wanting to really go and live with my mum. I have no choice of my own, but in the end that's what happened because he didn't want to leave the house. And then we had to, within six months pack up our entire life together.

And yeah, I stayed with my mom. We had some disputes over some finances. He basically, I think what had happened was he had convinced himself that this was the right decision. And in order to convince himself that that was the right decision, he had to of block off any emotion. So he suddenly became what I saw as a completely different person. And so this person that had known and loved and committed my life to,

was a stranger, suddenly very cold, especially when it came to all the financial negotiations, really didn't want to invest in any sort of compromise, very much individualistic out by himself. And when it came to moving on and making sure that we had properties for ourselves, he was very cutthroat and wanted to get his flat and wanted to get into his flat and didn't want me to slow him down. all of those things that behaviors that I would never have

Eve Simmons (24:42.062)

with my husband. I just thought he was a totally different person. He wasn't like that at all. And he surprised me and not in a good way. And then, yeah, so then that was three years ago and the three years since has just been sort of piecing my life back together in various different ways. But there is a happy moral to the story, which is that it was without doubt the best thing that ever happened to me. And...

My life now is a life that I have always dreamed of having. I am in such a peaceful and content place. I feel the freedom to explore every professional or personal endeavor that I want to. I'm supported by the most wonderful partner that I always imagined I would have. And

I'm so grateful to him for making that decision because I would never have made it. And three years on, I would be stuck in a relationship that I was unhappy in. I'd probably have a child and be coping with the stress of a partnership that was falling apart, as well as looking after a young child and feeling very depressed about the fact that I'm not giving the child the life that I feel the child wants because the parents aren't happy.

And so yeah, all worked out and I've written a whole book on it.

You're like, and it became a whole body of work. Because that's what I was going to be curious about is there's that moment of destabilization when this all happens, and then there's now. What supported you with finding your center in that in-between? Because I think that's often the moments where I just watch it, where it can be so overwhelming for so many to navigate. Because I also be curious with this, it's like there's the relationship.

Eve Simmons (26:34.508)

Yeah, completely. That's a really interesting.

Alexia Usgaard (26:40.76)

that exits. But I have seen over and over again that actually one of the hardest parts to grieve is the projected future. You had what basically at that point almost a decade or a decade of future planning that you had planned on doing together. So it's not just that this person's now out of your life. It's like we had this entire vision that now isn't.

Mm-hmm.

Eve Simmons (27:00.626)

Yeah. And you're also at that age, I think what's really important, and this is why I wanted to write the book, is because when I came to kind of looking at literature about this subject and basically like trying to find my way out of the hole with books, anything that I could find was just about the stage of life where you're sort of, you know, maybe pushing 50, you've got children negotiating the divorce, negotiating co-parenting, and what do you do with children, teenage children often.

You've had this whole life with somebody and now suddenly you're in a like menopausal, post menopausal space and meeting someone new at that stage of life. do you do it? And none of that related to me. Like I was basically 30 starting my kind of like, I guess, traditional family life and it had all fallen apart just as I'd got going. so then, then what do you do? Because it's not like your single friends who were like still single have carved this amazing.

life for themselves with maybe new friends that you don't know and going out and doing things that maybe as a person who's been quite kind of familiar with the like traditional couple life, maybe you don't want to do that, you don't feel comfortable doing that. But then obviously you don't want to hang out with your friends who are all in couples and like have the dog in the house and you're there like, I had this five minutes ago and now it's all gone and I'm sad again. So I think also like

reconnecting with yourself and who you are is another huge part because whether we like it or not, being in a relationship for such a long time, you carve out life with somebody and part of your life is theirs whether you like it or not. You can try really hard to remain as individual as possible, but it's a partnership, right? That's what it's about. so remembering who you were, it's kind of like you're not that person that you were 10 years ago because you were like 21, 22, and you're now a grown adult.

who isn't stupid, well, some of time. And then you're not like the person that you've projected to be because that's the person who's in a couple and is focused on having children and the dog and all of that stuff. So you do feel totally untethered and like, I just remember thinking, I don't know who I am. I don't know where I'm supposed to be. I don't know what I'm supposed to do tomorrow. Nevermind next week, nevermind next year. And everything feels terrifying.

Eve Simmons (29:24.268)

I will say there was sort of two things that I did which were totally opposite of each other. So I'd say my sort of like recovery came in two stages really. The first was despite all of my preconceptions, moving home, back to the area where I grew up, back in with my mom was actually exactly what I needed. I remember and I write about this in the book like.

So the area that I grew up in and I went to school in used to be quite a sort of nice, well-to-do place with lots of families and very sort of at least lovely and comforting. And now it's changed and a lot of the, it's sort of been a victim of the like collapse of the high street in the UK and a lot of the shops have shut. It's sort of like a big homeless population in the area.

just not great vibes to sort of walk around. You wouldn't like walk around in the afternoon and feel great about yourself. And I spent some time doing that and just felt this is actually the lowest of the low. This is so depressing. I'm literally back to where I was when I was a kid. I had a house and a life and now it's all gone. But there's something in the familiarity of at least being somewhere that you recognize that

I don't know if it reminds you of the person you are or reminds you of the person you were and where you are now and how far you have come. And regardless of the relationship, that is really only one part of your life and has only ever been one part of my life. That actually, something about it just allowed me to explore the facets of me that weren't connected to him. And I think there is that thing of like,

You connect with, if you're a person who's lucky enough to feel that your family is a real place of safety and security, which I am with my mum, and being reminded that you will always have that, there's something extremely healing in that. And also I had friends that I'd lost touch with who lived nearby and I saw a lot of them and felt that I could be really open about how I was feeling and there was no judgment and that was all really healing.

Eve Simmons (31:46.754)

very much kind of felt like going back to basics, but in a really good way. And then the other thing I did was move to a city that's like the most chaotic and hectic in the world with no friends. Yes. And that was healing, but in a completely different way. So yeah, just like getting to explore a part of my character that was undiscovered and nobody knew me. I could be whoever I wanted to be.

I'm like, let me guess, was it New York City?

Eve Simmons (32:16.706)

was independent, totally independent for the first time in my life. I'd gone from living with my mom at home at 21 and then 22 moving out in with my boyfriend who then became my husband. And so I didn't have to do anything. I would just defer to him, which was really terrible when I look at it now. It was the one thing I would advise women is like, don't get yourself into that position because you never know what's going to happen. And having the knowledge that you can cope whatever happens in your life is the most empowering thing.

And so yeah, New York was just a total blast and I was distracted because I just had the best time. Like anyone who is in a position where they feel they need to like throw all of their cards up in the air, I just say, get on a plane and go to New York.

You're like, New York is your answer.

Yeah, maybe that's not the most sensible advice, but for a minute in time, it really was. It really, really was. And yeah, I just think there's something about being in a place that's totally new and exciting and being able to be somebody that you've maybe always wanted to be, but always felt like slightly held back. And yeah, I came back because of job opportunities in London eventually, but...

It was definitely extremely freeing and also gave me lot of confidence that like now I can pay my bills by myself because I've done it in a whole new city and like, you know, I've things that my ex was sort of, I guess he would say he was protecting me. He was very, very protective person, but it meant that I didn't get to try and do things on my own, which sounds so stupid as like a 30 year old woman, but I had no choice in New York because I was there completely on my own. So I had to kind of like figure out.

Eve Simmons (34:06.594)

the subway, for instance, or I had to figure out how do I make sure that I'm calling the right water company or how do I fix this radiator that won't shut up, like it's keeping me up all night. And I just did it all. had a flatmate who actually happened to be one of my best friends and we figured it all out together and it sort of made me realize you'll be fine. Like nothing is that.

catastrophic, you will be okay. If you can do this here and also have a great time while you're doing it and laugh it off if things go wrong, you can do that anywhere. And so yeah, I just had a really, really, I was about to swear. Can I swear? No. okay. A really fucking great time.

Well, I love it because I feel, now hearing your two things that you thought were quite paradoxical, but actually I can see like you named, they're almost like the phases. And I'm even thinking about my own journey, when I would call my, like my collapse moment, for a very different situation, but still like that moment it felt like everything fell apart and I was like, who am I? And then I think about so many other women I've walked with through these massive moments, and how it actually, like the way you actually worded it feels actually so allied with what I've seen as a consistent...

It's like there's that big question of first, we can't bypass just the overwhelm of emotion. Where often we need to find what nurtures us. And for some that could be in your case, it was going back to your hometown and actually leaning on your family. For others, it might just be a variety of different support systems and ways that you can find like what nurtures you. What allows you to not bypass the emotions? Because let's be real, those moments as you named, mean, it's...

Full on. Your challenge, you're like, who am I, what am I? It can be that tricky feeling of like, what is my center? And so for you finding that sense of like, okay, I'm going to come back home into my body, reminded of safety. And then from there, then you went into the experimentation and the curiosity stage of, let me go try on all these different facets of myself. What if I awaken parts of myself I never even let myself play with and experiment with? And it just feels so...

Alexia Usgaard (36:12.856)

potent to name, because I think anyone listening or anyone who's, maybe you're not at a stage where everything's collapsing, but you feel like you're at an expansion point where maybe identities are being asked to die right now. Old facets of you, you know there's this lingering feeling. Old parts of your business maybe are being asked to let go. Because I think sometimes we always think it has to be the full collapse, but often in our journey there's these like minor versions of it where facets are parts of ourselves we've held onto so tightly.

are asked to be released. I know for some it can be a friendship breakup. It can be big family reconfigurations. It can be becoming a mother. It can be so many aspects. So think you're giving such a good invitation for anyone to honor those two different steps in the journey and seeing how it helps you. I'm like, yeah, now that you say it, I'm going, yes, I've actually seen a lot how those two facets have played out. Yeah. Because it's like-

you've got a bit of confidence because you feel like, okay, well, I've got over that bit. So when you're like the lowest of absolute low, you're like, things literally couldn't get any worse. My life is totally ruined. You're like, okay, well, at least nothing worse, like nothing bad is going to happen now because the bad thing has happened and I'm still alive. And I also think like part of me, so my dad died when I was 12. And I think, I don't know, I think I've always got that kind of like,

the worst thing has happened. It can't get much worse sort of thing. There's always a little bit of that in me. And so I just was like, well, at least I've got that tiny grain of confidence and I can take that to a new challenge. But yeah, it doesn't have to be moving country or even moving city or whatever. It could just be injecting something new that feels a bit scary maybe and then just overcoming and...

learning that it's not scary after all gives you so much empowerment.

Alexia Usgaard (38:07.406)

love it, that full invitation to go. Go to that hip hop class that maybe you've always been curious about that you just never made time for. It can be, like you said, going and meeting other new friends. Reaching out to the sisters who maybe you've lost touch with just because it's that vulnerability. I think it's just that deep vulnerability of putting yourself back out there, stepping outside your comfort zone and trying new things.

trying and you probably won't like a lot of those things.

Yeah exactly, sometimes you're going, well that was a good experiment.

Yeah, I did a lot of things that I was like, okay, this is not me. Yeah. But like, try it. You never know. And it will be funny. It will be a funny story.

What?

Alexia Usgaard (38:47.182)

That's that beautiful thing I see in you is you take it all with a grain of salt in a beautiful way, which I think is probably rooted, like you just named, in having walked with a really challenging moment young that gave you that moment of, okay, I can fall to my knees and I know that I will get myself back up again. It might take a lot more time. It might take less time. I think that's the part where people can be so hard on themselves.

is, well, if this happened, I'm supposed to just be over it by insert some timeline, and we're all different. We all have different needs, and maybe for someone else's process, they're going to do it opposite way. They're going to become the experimenter first, and then they're going to be the one who wants to go into safety. Like, we all have our unique way of operating, so it's not like we're here going, this is the prescribed way that you navigate a difficult moment, but we're just saying, hey, these are some invitations.

always shocked by, you know, we always say is that kind of really therapy speak of like sit in the moment, feel what you're feeling. And my God, like, do I know how important that is? But I'm still really shocked by how many people go through something or have something happen, even if it's maybe not, you know, wouldn't be considered traumatic on a grand scale. But it's a difficult situation. And we sort of tell ourselves, okay, well, I need to get up.

and do this or I need to, I've got to get like here and I'm finding it difficult. And it's almost like I should be feeling okay, like you were saying. And I just think this thing with the shoulds, like, no, you've been through a really difficult time. Something shit has happened and you need to take some time to deal with that. And that's okay. And yeah, I think we just have to get better, much better at accepting that. And knowing that at some point you will come out of that, but it is just time and that's okay, that's life.

It feels like such a perfect segue into sharing with you your first gene key. I feel like what you just named is so aligned. So for anyone new to the gene keys, the gene keys offer you a map to understand who you are on a soul level. And then every gene key has three frequencies. Our shadow, so aka our struggle. Our gift, so what we're really here to open into when we open our hearts. And then our city, our highest frequency.

Alexia Usgaard (41:01.87)

When we're just in complete rootedness with our wholeness, what are we here to just embody? And I want to show you your mission code. So the mission code in your blueprint shows you what you're here to do, what you're here be known for, what your leadership is ultimately going to also activate in other people. And yours goes from the shadow of dislocation, which is all about segmenting who we are.

actually turning off and thinking, maybe compartmentalizing, I'm either this or I'm that, or I have to shut down this part of me to be enough. This part's too much. The gift is orientation. It's coming into that energy of really knowing that clarity doesn't come from outside. It's really knowing your inner navigation system and being a really good listener of your own inner voice. And then the city is unity. It's to be so in honoring of all facets of who you are.

that then when you walk into room with anyone else, you become that walking permission slip for someone else to fully appreciate all of their facets too. So as you're sharing your story, as we're thinking about Eve in the collapse moment, right? I feel that dislocation energy of going, my gosh, wait, there's parts of myself I've never even let myself love and appreciate. And then there's other parts I've probably pedestalized and coming back into your journey of orientation. Coming back into that space.

So that way you could really see that all these different parts of who you are.

And I've always been a person who needs like a hundred million people's advice and opinions to be able to make my own decision. And funnily enough, after the breakup, we had this like awful conversation where I went to meet my ex at our house and have a talk. And these talks just ended up being the same thing, which was basically like us sitting on the sofa and him telling me all the things that are wrong with me. And I would absorb them. then I think it was like the first time or the second time it happened, I took my...

Eve Simmons (42:55.99)

My best girlfriends, well, one of my friends lived at, her parents lived down the road and she was at her parents' house and my best girlfriend, we've been friends since we were five, came with me because I said to him, you know when you just had like such an emotional onslaught and you just can't deal with having any more and you think you might just explode? And so I just said to him, look, I'm going to have to have her come with me because I can't listen to this on my own. And I just also need someone to step in and be like, look, enough.

Anyway, he wasn't happy about that, coming through the door. But because he'd heard some of the conversation, she'd heard some of the conversation, afterwards we sat in the car, her and my other girlfriend who was down the road. And they were like, right, we're going to go through every single thing he said and tell you why he's wrong. And I really was desperate to hear that. I craved that because I didn't know what the truth was. And I've always been a person that's so easily influenced.

And everything he said, I just took on board and was like, yeah, he's right. He's right. He's right. He's right. And I needed the kind of outside objective parties to be like, okay, but what if this was actually wrong and like, he's coming from this point of view and what about that? then, and I really desperately needed that. And I will always be so grateful for their input. Yeah. And of course they're biased because they love me. And that's really interesting because I just think of that nature that I have that's like.

being totally guided by other people's opinions.

Well, and exactly. What's so powerful, though, is when you realize it's your mission code, it's the thing you're most here to know so inside of yourself.

Alexia Usgaard (44:36.824)

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money, meaning and magnetism so you can make precise, aligned decisions and reconnect with the deeper current of your work, your leadership and your life. This isn't just a reading, it's a space of recognition, of remembering who you are beneath the roles and rhythms. If you're in a season of refinement, expansion or simply know something needs to shift, this is your invitation. Sessions are limited each quarter and they tend to fill quickly so...

I'd love to invite you to book your Illuminate experience now using the link in the show notes. I'd be absolutely honored to guide you.

Alexia Usgaard (45:40.3)

and thinking about your investigator side, your writer side, if you now look at what you've created with this book, I mean, for me, I find it so powerful that you not only went through this experience yourself, but then you started researching. You followed your curiosity and created a whole book on researching others who have experienced similar things to you.

Well, I mean, that's what I've sort of always done in my job. And actually after it happened, I was telling my boss, who's also a friend and a sort of long time confidant and a bit like a big brother, Vigga. And we would have conversations. He was at my wedding. And I said to him, just something, another awful thing had happened. I'd got an email or something. And we were sitting off to work in the office and I was talking about it and he...

He said, you're going to write about this, right? And I was like, I just don't know if that's something I want to do. It's so personal and I just don't know if I want to kind of mesh him and relationship in this. also you're putting, I think when you write about relationships, you're putting your personal self out there for so much different type of criticism. And I was like worried about how would I present to a potential future partner and all of that stuff.

And he said to me, but Eve, this is what you do. so context here is that I have always been a really, very vocal for people who have suffered eating disorders and disordered eating. I had anorexia, which is the deadliest form of eating disorder in my early twenties, and was very, very lucky to make full recovery relatively quickly. And since then I have written about it for the newspaper that I worked for many, many times. And I also wrote a book, my first book.

which I wrote with another girl was about that and trying to empower people, particularly women, to feel comfortable in their own bodies and eat in peace and not be messed up around food, as difficult as that might be. So that's what I've always done. That's been my pattern. And I very much use my own experience in order to write articles and investigate and report.

Eve Simmons (47:59.028)

on issues that are very important and affecting lots of other people. So when he said that, I just sort of thought he's totally right. And it would be doing myself a complete disservice not to share my experience in order to help other people who might be in the same position. And so from that came all the questions like, well, if I'm feeling this, the people experiencing a similar kind of blindsiding event? Why does this blindsiding event feel so catastrophic?

How do you even start to get over it? Why do men do this? I mean, people do it, but from what transpired from my investigating it, it's mostly men. And how can I be informed in a next relationship to protect myself from another kind of eventuality or be okay with the prospect of it maybe happening again because there's no guarantees. And so, yeah, that became the book.

I mean, isn't that just such a beautiful example though of walking through this massive moment in your life and then allowing yourself to be open enough and curious enough to now expand into a bigger mission and a bigger conversation? Because as you saw and what I saw in your book is you are definitely not alone in this experience. So what, if there was like one or two key things from the research that most surprised you or impacted you, what would you say?

was revealed to you in the process.

There's so, so much. But if I had to pick, I'd say...

Eve Simmons (49:43.63)

I'd say one thing that actually did surprise me was that there... So I spoke to a lot of relationship counselors and psychologists and experts. And I have to admit, I did go into it very much sort of like, women are amazing, women would never do this to men, it's men that's the problem. They don't know how to be in mature emotional relationships. And actually, obviously I was totally wrong and that was a complete generalization and it wasn't fair. And although there are sort of gendered patterns,

I think the one, something that made me a lot more sympathetic and I guess interested as well and curious was that a lot of the experts say that they see a lot of men who really struggle with worrying about coming across aggressive and being nervous about being aggressive because they are aware that it's not an attractive trait and that it's also something that men are maybe predisposition to kind of fall into more so than women.

And so what you have is the situation where maybe you're for a man who's like a little bit more sensitive or not necessarily more sensitive, just like not a kind of typical like macho dude. And you want to express your true feelings. Maybe you feel angry, maybe you feel devalued or you feel irritated or whatever, but you don't quite know how to express it. And you're so scared of coming across angry and aggressive because that's the sort of like...

that you've been told since you were very young to repress, how do you articulate those feelings? And I just thought that was really interesting because then what happens often is that these men will kind of, also they don't have the social network that women usually do, or they certainly don't talk to their friends in the same way as women do. And so you have these kind of lonely men that end up keeping all bottles in.

not knowing how to articulate it to their partner and then it all comes out in this big explosion. So whether that's like suddenly a big angry outburst or a kind of, I'm so sorry this is coming as a complete surprise but I'm actually really unhappy. And then the other party is totally blindsided. And so I kind of went into it thinking, well, men just don't talk to...

Eve Simmons (52:04.398)

deal with their emotions and they're certainly not told how to articulate their emotions in a respectful, meaningful way. And it's a real problem. And I do think that that is true and that is part of the story because of like modeling and absent fathers and the problem with male role models and et cetera, et cetera. However, I've now kind of like, I'm really sympathetic to this whole kind of nerves around aggression theory.

I really see that now that I've learned it. Like I really see that in a lot of people, a lot of friends and friends, partners. And so I think that like any partnership, there's a responsibility, let's say like in heterosexual relationships for both the man and the woman to help create that space for a sort of like safe, honest conversation. And just having that in mind that your partner may...

feel nervous about expressing that kind of emotion has really opened my eyes to a different kind of way of viewing gender norms, guess.

Is there anything you've seen that now in relationships that are embodied has supported men with feeling like they can share their anger in a productive way?

Yes, lots of friends' relationships. I think what happens is I've seen it turn into secrecy. And one friend in particular thought that her partner was very happy or like at least kind of as happy as most people are.

Eve Simmons (53:55.286)

in their relationship and then similar to mine, like this whole kind of deluge of stuff came out that she wasn't expecting. And he also like quite sensitive guy, finds it difficult to talk about his feelings and you can see like wants to be the nice guy. And one of the experts I spoke to spoke about this thing called the hydraulic model of emotion and said that...

he often sees that men really suffer from it, which basically means that you're like a pressure cooker. So all of this emotion just builds up and up and up. And then at some point it has to come out. And then it seems like to the other person that this is totally out of character and really strange and such a surprise, which it is to another person, but it's just that not being able to really express what you're feeling. it's like.

So interesting. I feel like there's so much more I want to dig into that one because I'm going, what an interesting thing to navigate. I think it is a balancing act because I feel like even in my work with women, there's been so much on women finding it okay for them to name their anger. Like I think anger is just an emotion that has been so repressed for so many. And then what's the balancing act of where...

Anger has the safe space, but with the containment where it doesn't turn into it's like, again, we're so, we see all the extremes. It's either aggressive or we're numb. But it's like, anger is our power. Like I realize whenever I feel my own sense of anger, it's rooted in some of my power and some of my feisty, like that part of myself that also is part of my ambitious spirit. It's part of my activism that makes me want to go do my mission. It's all very rooted. And I've realized actually a lot of the healthiest relationships and I think

why even my relationship I have now, something I've really seen that's been so crucial and such a healing experience in our relationship, is finding our way with navigating space, I think for both, but even for me, seeing as a woman, like how do I hold space for some of that anger to be expressed in a way that, again, still again, with containment, with respect, but also where I also don't shy away or fall into...

Alexia Usgaard (56:09.785)

it's too much, you know, there's kind of this balancing act of finding your rhythm with it. Yeah.

And calm communication, always. And I think also if you're always talking, then you really reduce that risk of it all coming out in a big blowout. with my current partner, we're just, we're always sort of checking in with one another and making sure that if, I think also it's being with, if you're a very sort of like emotionally aware, emotional person.

I do think that finding someone that matches that energy is a good idea because then neither of you feel comfortable having those conversations and neither of you feel like you have to really draw out of the other person. And you also like very in tune with when something's happened that you will know that they might be struggling emotionally in some way. And so then you know that you will ask, whereas if you're a person who's very in tune with that, but the other person is very repressed in that way.

then it's like you're constantly kind of like fighting a losing battle because you're trying to get something out of like, it's yeah, you're just, you're trying to get something that's not gonna come easily.

I feel like it all comes back to something that I feel like has been a core theme of our conversation, which is like, you just really have to know who you truly are and have that self-responsibility to do your own inner work, to know your emotions, to know how you show up, your emotional availability, what are your support systems, where do you reach out, and what are your spaces where you feel like you can also navigate the messy moments, but also in a way that's respectful.

Alexia Usgaard (57:45.142)

And when I think about you now, and as we feel into like this part of your journey, how do you feel in your nervous system now? Like on the other side of this journey, after everything you've learned, after writing this book, after researching and really going into the ins and outs of partnership and relational dynamics, how do you feel now in how you see yourself and how you're showing up in your current?

Well, I'm, it's really still waters, but full disclaimer, I am on Prozac. So that may have something to do with it. But I was on, I was also on Prozac before my breakup. So, it, well, I don't know, who knows? Maybe it did help, but I feel a lot calmer now than I did then. Let's just say that. I'm just really...

I think, again, the beauty of hindsight, but I think what I've learned is that when you're in any sort of situation, which is like, there's a lot of battles, whether that's in an office, in a friendship, in a romantic relationship, with the family dynamic, whatever that is, when you're constantly feeling like you have to try and win, it's just toxic for everyone involved.

And you very easily lose that sense of kindness. And so I think like the energy of my body for so long was like being prepared for a fight, being prepared for some sort of confrontation to come up against a brick wall, to come up against something that was going to be difficult, to not be on the same page as the person that you really desperately want to be on the same page with. And I think that just like the internal turmoil of that.

really had an effect on my mental health, but I totally wasn't aware of it. And now, not having any of those battles to win or to fight is just, you're not distracted from the person that you are and from the hopes and as cliche as it sounds, the dreams that you have for yourself and for your life. And you can really connect to the people that you see every day and that you're with every day. And it's just...

Eve Simmons (01:00:10.488)

piece. And that's, I've always seen myself as a very kind of like non-complicated person. I've always had quite a lot of friends, like not in a bragging way, I just, I've got on with people very well, always been quite easy going. And my relationship now I look back, certainly in the last few years, made me feel so far away from that version of myself. I felt like I was

quite demanding, quite tricksy, argumentative, difficult. And so that also made me feel very unconfident when it came to thinking about meeting somebody else. And I think we often get trapped in this idea that the person I'm with is the only person for me because they've seen me in all of these states and nobody else is going to be able to cope with. And I think what you don't realize is in any relationship, you are also a reflection of that other person.

And it's very unique to how the two of you come together and how the two of you are. And it's likely that if you're with somebody else, you'll actually be totally different. And not because you're like transforming yourself, but just because of the way that our characters kind of like slot in with another totally different person. And so I now see myself as the person that I have always liked, which is...

the version of me that I believe really is the true version of me and has always been like in my teenage years, in my early twenties, a person that really has the propensity to enjoy and find joy in every little thing and is very sociable and loves being around people. it's just generally quite chilled. And I think that that's a lot of that is because the person I'm with now really reflects that.

me, which is like nice.

Alexia Usgaard (01:02:09.934)

Well, one, I love that for you. And also, as I hear you, the things that stand out to me so much, and I feel like it's such an invitation for someone listening, is that part you said about, like myself. And I think about it so much about how people talk about falling in love, but they forget the part of you have to really like your partner.

Like it's not okay, there's love and there's liking. There's the deep enjoyment, the friendship, that connection of that. And it's like, you can't like someone else if you secretly really don't like yourself. And so it's that invitation.

Yeah, and it's the spending time. The thing that I always find now is that from day one with my current partner, we have loved spending time together. It's actually sickening. We just have the best time together even if we're just going to the supermarket. It's just a riot. I'm sure it won't be like that in 10 years time.

Hey, let's just hold that vision for you guys. There'll probably be some bickering here and there because hashtag that's life. of course.

But I think that it's so important to just enjoy like life, okay, life is short, but life is also quite long. And you've got to spend, you're spending, choosing to spend time with one life partner, you've got to spend a long time with them. So you've got to enjoy the daily stuff and have someone that you can laugh with and be relaxed with and be silly with. And we've always been like that together. I've

Eve Simmons (01:03:37.942)

I just learned very quickly, okay, like this is where I feel comfortable. I feel comfortable in situations where I'm laughing a lot, I'm being stupid and the person is being stupid with me and isn't judging me and we're not taking anything too seriously. And actually it's not intense and that's where I feel safe. And that's the way, that's how my family dynamic's always been. My friends have always been like that. It's always been like a lot of jokes and silliness.

And so yeah, now I'm like drawn to that because I know that's my happy place.

And so I feel like that's a perfect invitation for anyone listening. Whether you're in relationship, whether you're someone who desires relationship, at the end of the day, can you come up with some version of a ritual, because we always stand for ritual in this podcast? A ritual that you create some, whether it's daily, weekly, monthly, find your rhythm, find your cadence, where you get to do something that really supports you with liking yourself. Do something that...

brings you joy, something that makes you laugh. Maybe there's a facet of yourself that you're like, I actually really like this facet of myself, but I don't give myself enough time to be intimate just with me in that part of myself. Because I find it so true, like the more we do that, the more the other piece of what you had shared as your key insight and what you're experiencing now that I felt in you was now operating as a team. And I feel like the only way you can be a deeply powerful teammate is if you really know who you are.

Yeah.

Alexia Usgaard (01:05:07.094)

and who you are in the team. Yeah, and if you are in the we.

Yeah, and if you have those nuggets of also knowing what makes you sparkle, then you can go out and get that for yourself and then you come and bring that back to the partnership. Like, for instance, I parted my breakup, so when we moved, we moved to this house that was in the suburbs. It was kind of quite rural and away from people. And it meant that, like, seeing my friends was a bit trickier. And I've always been a person who will have, like, at least one or two midweek.

dinners, coffees, whatever it is, drinks, usually cocktails, whatever, bottles of wine with my girlfriends. And that really gives me life. And because we live far away, it meant that I just wasn't doing that as much. And so now I've really take that to the extreme. I really appreciate that in myself that like, you know, I can have a day if I'm feeling a bit whatever, especially now with a baby and spending a lot of time on my own.

I'll kind of like walk around by myself and feel a little bit isolated and I'll know that there's something in me that can walk into a coffee shop, have a conversation with the person there with the dog or whatever, and I'll get so much joy from it it will carry me for the rest of the day. And I now really appreciate that and see that as a real magical thing in myself because another person might have that interaction and it gives them nothing and they're still not in a great mood. Again, could be helped by the Prozac.

Who knows, but I'm gonna take it anyway.

Alexia Usgaard (01:06:37.246)

I fully celebrate it. I think it's so easy to underestimate those simple small choices we make, but like you even having that moment where you're going, I'm feeling a little bit off, I'm going to go have that moment with myself at the coffee shop. But it's because you are self-aware. You know that that is something that supports you.

it's the same with like, I know I make jokes about medication. I've written about this a lot, but like I have an anxiety disorder, which has been under control for a very long time. But there was a period where I came off medication because I thought I'm feeling great. I'm fine. We all do it. And what happened, I spiraled into a total anxious meltdown and really felt like I couldn't cope. And I was that thing of like, like I can't need medication. There's some...

I don't know if it's shame, I guess it is shame, but you feel like you're less of a person if you need something to prop you up. It's not propping you up. It's just that there's something about your brain that's working in a different way and it needs something to be able to fulfill exactly who you are. And I'm so grateful for medication because I wouldn't be able to function in the way that I can.

And so, yeah, I would also like total offshoot, but I'd say to anyone who is struggling, it's a real miracle that we have medicine that can help because for a long time we didn't. And so I would say like, please don't be shy and investigate. And obviously there's side effects because there's side effects with every medication. But yeah, if you're really finding that you can't get out of that hole, is help.

But I love that you demystify and you get you are an invitation to not have shame, to honor that every person is walking their very unique experience. And how do we really get honest about who we are, what we need, what we like about ourselves, what supports us with actually taking care of our particular health and all the different facets that exist, mental, emotional, spiritual, physical. And the more that you are really honest and do it for yourself, the more than ultimately.

Alexia Usgaard (01:08:48.622)

you can be the most loving version of yourself in these relational dynamics. And this feels like, as we close up, this feels like the perfect spot just to share with you one other gene key of yours that I just found so aligned with just everything you stand for. So I'm gonna share with you your meaning code. So this gives insight in what fulfills you on the journey of everything you do, everything you create, everything you show up for. it? Oh, but I.

cake.

I'm like, right now, what I wouldn't give for a slice of cake. That sounds delicious. I love cake too. It's Genki 4. And that one goes from the shadow of intolerance. So it's all the ways that we can put ourselves in this or that dynamics, right? The ways society, we can get caught up in all the societal pressure of I'm either, I'm supposed to be this way or that way. And very in our heads, very mental. Your gift of understanding is to be open-hearted.

to really want to understand yourself, understand others, see them in the full scope of who they are. And then, because you're a city, your highest frequency is forgiveness. Like really the ability to feel free, to let the regret, to let the resentment go, and to really choose no matter what to keep your heart open, to see all that is in front of you. And when I think about your story, when I think about, I mean, I love relationships as an area where it can be really...

tricky for people to forgive. And I go, wow, for you, you came on this planet with a blueprint that's all about you freely navigating the relational space, getting curious and knowing what it really means to set yourself free and forgive with an open heart. So how does that land?

Eve Simmons (01:10:15.66)

Yeah.

Eve Simmons (01:10:30.99)

that's very beautiful and really full circle. Because I feel like, yeah, I guess it's interesting because I haven't really thought about forgiveness and whether I'm forgiven and how I feel about all of that. And I think with the publication of the book, it sort of brings it into hard focus because you're suddenly like, okay, this person's going to read this.

there are lot of feelings of shame and guilt because you're worried about how it's going to come across. you know, I still, this was somebody that I loved for a very long time and I wouldn't want to wish any harm on him or want him to feel, I care about what he thinks. Like I'll admit it, of course I care about what he thinks. And yeah, I haven't thought about whether I forgive him. And I guess that I probably have because...

I know that I feel eternally grateful for the fact that I was set free at a time when I really needed to be set free. And it may have been extremely painful, but ultimately look what I've got. And yeah, if sort of like one step was slightly misaligned, then things would be different. So yeah, I'm gonna be thinking about that for the rest of the...

week.

No, I just, went, mm-hmm, mm-hmm. Yeah. Because your book, to me, is so powerful, it's so beautiful, it's part memoir and all your research. You bring all sorts of different experts and their opinions and their expertise in so many areas and what they've watched in their bodies of work, working with so many different clients and people in their work as well. So how can people get their hands on this book?

Alexia Usgaard (01:12:23.414)

And how can people connect with you, Eve?

Well, they can look for me on Instagram. I'm at Evie Sim or also TikTok. I'm Ev Simmons Journal, I think on TikTok. And you can also buy my book. It's on Amazon or any other major retailer.

well, thank you so much for being here. Thank you for putting this, like I said multiple times on this episode, putting this work into the world. I don't take it lightly that what it's asked of you in the process of bringing this out into the world and what a ripple effect it's going to have on so many. And for those of you listening, I definitely, I'll have all in the show notes where you can find Eve's book, where you can connect with her on Instagram.

And yeah, if you feel called to send Eve and I a Instagram DM and share with us what's been your biggest takeaway from this conversation. would love it. We both are connectors. love hearing from you and hearing what really is speaking to your heart right now. And also I think especially because you're such an invitation of no matter what you're navigating, you don't have to go through it alone. And just thank you for being you. I'm so grateful to enjoy this conversation with you on my comfy cozy couch.

enjoying a beautiful cup of tea. Ouch. Hey, this is the passion of our conversations, you know? I love it. I'm like, this just means we were in it.

Eve Simmons (01:13:40.226)

which I've spilled all over your couch guys.

Eve Simmons (01:13:47.646)

And now this is like being a new mom I arrived with not a scrap of makeup on and a hat on my head because I've done nothing with my hair and now I'm going to leave with wet pants.

Hey, you know, we're just being real. That's what we're keeping it real here. I love it. You're just, again, you're just giving me that good foreshadowing for my life. And I'm like, I'm so here for it. And yeah, until next time, for all of you listening, we hope you just continue to elevate your life one intentional day at a time. Lots of love and big heart hugs your way.

Mom life.

Alexia Usgaard (01:14:21.986)

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