Jess Part One

[00:00:00] Ross: Hi there, and a very warm welcome to Season six, episode 18 of People's Soup. It's Ross Macintosh here, I remember someone saying to me, actually, let me get the phrase right. Basically, we were in kind of an innovation type session and. Everybody was coming up with just random ideas, throwing things into the room. And somebody said to me, well, you can't get involved in this because you're not a creative. And I remember thinking, well, to be honest, I remember thinking, how dare you?

[00:00:29] Jess: But, you know, I, my, I think my retort at the time was everybody has the capacity to be creative. You know, that, piece of your brain exists that allows people to be creative. Just because I'm not a creative in this industry, in my role in this industry, it doesn't mean that I don't have creativity, that I don't have innovation, that I don't have ideas that I can bring to the table.

[00:00:49] And you know, that one really struck with me in we can't assume that certain industries or certain roles or certain functions are a certain way.

[00:00:58] Ross: Peace Supers. In this episode, I chat with Jessica Lee. Jess is a chartered organizational psychologist and accredited coach with over 20 years of experience across a range of industries, Including fast moving consumer goods, aviation and music, Jess's people soup ingredients are curiosity, flexibility and exploration with a side order of passion and fun. we discuss her international career, including some of the cultural differences she's noticed.

[00:01:27] Jess also talks about her curiosity for understanding people in the workplace across different contexts and the perceptions of creativity in different roles. We finished with Jess's advice to our younger self at a stalking song choice.

[00:01:50] For those of you who are new to People Soup, welcome. It's great to have you here. We aim to provide you with the ingredients for a better work life from behavioral [00:02:00] science and beyond. For those of you who are regular, peace supers, thanks for tuning in. Again, we love it that you're part of our community.

[00:02:07] A quick scoot over to the news desk. I have some new offerings in 2025, and one of them is about to launch. I'm going to offer the ACT based training I developed with Dr.

[00:02:17] Paul Flaman as a public course. I've delivered this course to over 2000 adults in the workplace and received astounding feedback, hence my move to offer it more widely, If you keep an eye on my socials, you'll hear more about the program very soon.

[00:02:33] Or sign up to my newsletter@rossmcintosh.co uk. It's going to be a live training program with a maximum cohort size of 12 people enough excitement. For now. Get a brew on and have a listen to part one of my chat with Jess Lee.

[00:02:54] Jessica Lee, welcome to PeopleSoup

[00:02:57] Jess: Thank you so much, Ross. How are you?

[00:02:59] Ross: I will thank you. Now Jess, you know we have a research department here at PeopleSoup Towers and they've been doing a bit of digging on you and I'm going to share what they've found to see if they've got it right. They're not always 100 percent accurate.

[00:03:15] Jess: Okay. Interesting.

[00:03:16] Ross: So it says here, Jess is a chartered organizational psychologist with the Psychological Society of Ireland and an accredited EMCC coach.

[00:03:26] Jess: Correct.

[00:03:27] Ross: Now, just for our

[00:03:28] listeners, what does EMCC stand for, Jess?

[00:03:32] Jess: Good question. It's the European Mentoring and Coaching Council.

[00:03:36] Ross: Thank you. I'll continue. She has a wealth of experience, and by wealth, I mean over 20 years in talent and organizational development, consulting, recruitment, and HR roles with leading brands and global best practice consultancies in Ireland,

[00:03:53] UK, and Australasia.

[00:03:55] [00:04:00] Yeah,

[00:04:03] Jess: My brain doesn't believe it when in my face, when I look in the mirror does.

[00:04:07] Ross: I hear you. I get stuck at like, sort of saying, 25 years of

[00:04:12] experience and then I realize, geez, it's a lot more than that now, Macintosh.

[00:04:18] Jess: it's a bit like the LinkedIn profile and you look at your picture and you

[00:04:20] go, that

[00:04:21] needs an update.

[00:04:23] Ross: Yes, I hear you. I hear you. Okay, I'll continue. Jess has a proven track record in building results focused people solutions. She has worked from junior to CEO levels across FMCG, fast moving consumer goods, folks, aviation, IT, manufacturing,

[00:04:44] retail, music, and finance. So quite a broad scope there.

[00:04:49] Jess: Absolutely. And I always say that's kind of one of the main reasons I love what I do is that to me, business psychology or organizational psychology spans all types of industries,

[00:05:01] because you're just looking at people in work. So, it's just understanding the context of the industry that you're working in.

[00:05:06] Ross: Amen. And it says here you assist businesses to get the best from their people and provide a commitment for business change. And a core focus of your work is on leadership assessment, executive coaching and leadership programs, as well as organizational culture, talent development strategy and team development.

[00:05:27] Jess places strong emphasis on unearthing the relevant needs from the outset and is known for her honest, engaging style, where she brings humanity,

[00:05:35] warmth, and fun to her engagements with organizations.

[00:05:39] Jess: Sounds so much nicer when you say it.

[00:05:43] Ross: And, folks, just to let the listeners know, I'm speaking from personal experience, I've worked with Jess on a couple of big projects where we've been co facilitating and it's been an absolute joy where I've learnt loads [00:06:00] and we've also had fun,

[00:06:02] Jess: Definitely.

[00:06:03] Ross: both, between you and me, but also with the organizations we're supporting, the participants on our courses.

[00:06:11] Now Jess, there was something slightly sketchier from my research department.

[00:06:16] Jess: Oh dear.

[00:06:17] Ross: In the archives they find out that you auditioned for a girl group in the past and, I try not to laugh too much, and made it to the final auditions, but once you were offered a role you declined it. Now, this research seems entirely feasible to me, I know you have an immense musical knowledge and love for music of all genres, and you can also hold a tune.

[00:06:42] Now the rumour has it that the girl

[00:06:44] group was bewitched. Do you have any comment?

[00:06:50] Jess: I don't think I, I don't think I do well in double denim.

[00:06:53] Ross: No?

[00:06:58] Jess: I'm afraid to say that one is a myth.

[00:07:00] Ross: Ah,

[00:07:01] Jess: a dream, you know, it would have been amazing, but I never, I never had the, the confidence maybe to, to do it. I always, I love a, I love a dance. I love a sing. I love a bit of fun. Did a lot of dancing as a kid. I try to do a lot of dancing as an adult, but yeah, sadly not, sadly not for Bewitched.

[00:07:24] Ross: ah, well it took me on a good stroll down memory lane because I was looking up their top hits.

[00:07:30] Jess: Yeah. is,

[00:07:31] Ross: include, folks, C'est La Vie,

[00:07:34] and I think there's one called Blame It On The Weatherman.

[00:07:38] Jess: I forgot if I blame it on the weatherman. Yeah. Well, I mean, it's pretty

[00:07:41] apt for Arden, really.

[00:07:42] Ross: Yes. Yeah, I hear you haven't had the greatest of weather

[00:07:46] recently.

[00:07:47] Jess: No, I thought it was just me. I think I was saying to you last week that it felt like I hadn't seen any sunshine, like the sun hadn't risen or broken through the clouds and now it's all over the newspapers and it's [00:08:00] consecutive days of grey, so we're just waiting for that sun to break through and get some nice daylight and be able to go for some sunrise walks again.

[00:08:09] Ross: Yeah. And if folks are wondering,

[00:08:11] PSuper's Jess is based in Dublin.

[00:08:14] Jess: born and raised. Yeah,

[00:08:16] Ross: In the posh bit.

[00:08:17] Jess: Well, yeah. My husband likes to call it the Vatican of Dublin.

[00:08:21] It's its own enclave. It's clearly a joke, just to clarify.

[00:08:26] Ross: understood, understood. See, I knew she was posh. So, so Jess, we've heard a little bit about your background and where you are in your career right now. But I wonder if you'd like to share a bit more about your career. Maybe sharing two or three pivotal moments that really stick out for

[00:08:43] you.

[00:08:44] Jess: Absolutely. I think when I think back to my career, the main one that started everything really was doing my master's of organizational psychology in Dublin City University. So I had made the decision to basically when I finished my undergrad that doing a master's that that timing was good for me.

[00:09:04] PRactical application of psychology in the workplace

[00:09:04] Jess: You know some people will obviously wait and get some more experience and go back, but I decided to do it there and then and to me it was one of the best possible things that I could do because for me personally it just felt like a really clear practical application of this is psychology in the workplace.

[00:09:22] It just made sense for me. I think it possibly probably made sense because I suppose I was coming from a household where my dad is an engineer. My mom had her own business for the last 40 or so years. So I just saw business. I saw sales. I saw engineering. I saw kind of that logic or practicality, or at least.

[00:09:39] That's what my brain perceived it as. So org psych for me, just made perfect sense. And I was able to, fortunately enough within that master's, uh, it was part time. So I was able to work in a really small consultancy in Dublin and literally transfer my learning each week into the workplace. And it was one of the best possible things that I could [00:10:00] have done because it just helped me make sense of the world of psychology in, in the, expertise in the area that I wanted to be in.

[00:10:06] And then I was allowed and able to kind of just. put that into practice and just get great experience from the get go. So that was probably one of the most pivotal moments at the start of my career, which was great.

[00:10:18] Ross: So that sounds like such a gift that you could use the the knowledge and the insights you were getting from your course directly into

[00:10:26] that small consultancy.

[00:10:29] Having a supportive boss

[00:10:29] Jess: absolutely. And so I was, I was lucky enough to have a, really encouraging kind of, I suppose, first proper boss, if you want to call it that. Who I'm still in contact with now, and he just kind of said, let's go. Let's kind of throw you in there. Let's get experience. Put me in front of people. I was able to utilize some of the clients that we're working with within my thesis, and able to use them as my research pool.

[00:10:54] Living and working in Australia

[00:10:54] Jess: So it was just really helpful. I'm really useful. And then it allowed me, Probably on my second most pivotal point, which I didn't realise at the time, was then that was a contract in terms of working with him. And finished my masters, finished that contract and said, you know what, I'll go to Australia for a couple of weeks, as a lot of young Irish people do, and from everywhere else, of course.

[00:11:17] And, yeah, stayed for seven years, became a citizen, wasn't expecting that. But in terms of my career, what it meant was, with that relatively short piece of very relevant experience,

[00:11:29] I was able to basically use that experience and then use my master's and got a, got a job, pretty much I think on my first or second week in Australia.

[00:11:39] So, I was pretty lucky to go into a learning and development department of a global FMCG and things just kind of. exploded from there. I think what I noticed in Australia was, don't know whether it was me or at the time or whatever it was, maybe culturally, there was just no question of my gender, my age.

[00:11:58] It was just a question of she can do [00:12:00] the job. We like her. It's all going well. She knows what she's talking about. I was trying my best. They were helping me learn and I just kind of forged forth and, and got a load of great experience very early on in my career, which I'm still really grateful for.

[00:12:16] Ross: God, it strikes me you have the spirit of adventure in you to, to go there. But also the, the curiosity to go, Hmm. And notice the difference between the, the sort of culture you'd grown up in and the culture there in Australia and think this could be really

[00:12:34] useful for my development and my career whilst I serve this organization.

[00:12:39] Jess: Yeah, I honestly think that's a, that's another aspect of something that I

[00:12:42] would see as. Pivotal in my career as well, just being able to live and work abroad in Australia, in London. Whilst I was working in Australia, you know, I worked in probably all the major cities because I was working in a retail environment, for retail organizations.

[00:12:55] So I had to travel around to different locations and then got the opportunity to work in Hong Kong. And again, at a very early age, so it just meant that It really opened my eyes to the cultural similarities and the cultural differences and maybe some naivety around, well, this is an English speaking country, so they're going to be the same as the culture in Ireland, or they're going to be the same as the culture in England.

[00:13:16] And I learned, you know, Absolutely some similarities, but absolutely some differences as well. And that's always been a real interest of mine.

[00:13:23] Ross: So you're a real curious gatherer of, of differences and, and similarities as

[00:13:29] well, I guess, of the human experience in the workplace.

[00:13:33] Jess: Yeah, I think my dear dad would have called me a dreamer as a child, but I think, um, what he was seeing was me being quiet and noticing and observing and reflecting and thinking. And I still enjoy doing that. people don't necessarily believe I was a quiet child when they see me now, but, Yeah, I think that, uh, natural curiosity, wanting to understand things, just observing [00:14:00] and noticing and connecting things together is just part of my DNA, I

[00:14:06] Ross: It's one of the things I really notice you for is that, is that capacity to, to respond to a room. You know when we're working together and co facilitating, which is great because it means you've got two sets of eyes on the room,

[00:14:20] and two sets of noticing on the room. But I notice your capacity to, to join dots and respond to people in a way that makes them feel.

[00:14:28] Seen and heard and included in the conversation.

[00:14:31] Jess: Thank you.

[00:14:32] Ross: Hmm.

[00:14:32] Jess: And same to you, you know. I think when we do work in groups, it's great to have the,

[00:14:38] I suppose, luxury of having two facilitators. It doesn't happen that often, I think, for, for what we do. Thank you. and. Yeah, just the capacity to kind of try and feel and understand and get a gauge for where people are at in terms of interest levels, in terms of their engagement, enjoyment, just bringing them, bring them along for the ride.

[00:14:59] Ross: yeah, absolutely.

[00:15:00] So two weeks turned into seven years in Australia.

[00:15:05] Jess: Whoops.

[00:15:05] Ross: That does feel quite a pivotal moment, and an Australian

[00:15:08] citizen.

[00:15:09] Jess: Mm hmm.

[00:15:10] Ross: So do you hold dual citizenship

[00:15:12] Jess: I do. Yep. I didn't have to, um, I suppose inverted commas, give anything up as such. I just got dual. So I will have that for life. So that was a great benefit. Privilege and really, I suppose, formed a lot of my twenties.

[00:15:31] Ross: any other pivotal moments for you?

[00:15:33] Jess: I think, just the general capacity, which I alluded to earlier, the general capacity to be able to work across industries to me is really, really, really interesting. So understanding the context in which people work, being able to work across those huge variety of industries, you know, when I moved to London, I.

[00:15:53] Remember saying I get to work in psychology in music. It is literally my two loves combined. [00:16:00] And just that, that capacity to know that I could do my job, whatever version of that, that was within the learning department, for example, to be able to do that in an industry such as music, and then pivot that to.

[00:16:14] tech, pivot that to law, pivot that to professional services. That's amazing to me because you get to meet such a huge variety of people and then that feeds back into my understanding, my learning, you know, and then how I can best use that insight and information with other people. And, you know, I think that's one of the most enjoyable parts of what we do.

[00:16:36] Ross: yeah, I have to agree, because sometimes when you're entering a new niche in the market, like a new sector, like music, I don't know about you, but I tend to have this glamorous perception of what it's like to work in the music industry. It's like when I first started working with ballet companies. I was like, wow, I'm like some sort of oversized Billy Elliot going in there.

[00:17:00] But um, you soon realize that like you said earlier, they're the same humans and they face the same challenges and the context is always different, which I think is really interesting. I know you and me talk about context quite a lot.

[00:17:14] Jess: Absolutely.

[00:17:15] Ross: And one of the things we're going to come on to is talk about leadership development, one of your core passions, Can I ask you about the music industry? So what would be your core reflections of working in the music

[00:17:26] industry?

[00:17:27] Music Industry

[00:17:27] Jess: Good question. Core reflections. Yeah, I suppose one of them would be the point you just made, which was, you know, I suppose we all have assumptions around maybe certain industries and the way they are, the culture that they have, or the types of people that might work there. And they are just that, assumptions. Absolutely. There's, you know, a glitz and glamour element. There's a, you know, you get to go to Abbey Road, you get to see, you get to go to loads of gigs, get to see people on stage, get all that great [00:18:00] stuff. And then within that, there's like any other industry, there's that comes with all its challenges.

[00:18:05] There's always, I always say. Maybe cliched or not, but there's two sides to every coin, so there'll always be a flip. There'll always be a different side, which I suppose I didn't know, because I'd never worked in the industry. a lot of kind of internal competition, which I hadn't really, I suppose, Considered before going in just amongst, I suppose, if you're working with different labels across different artists, they're going to be naturally internally competing with each other to get the best possible talent.

[00:18:32] Creativity

[00:18:32] Jess: so that was just an interesting aspect that I noticed, and I remember someone saying to me, actually, let me get the phrase right. Basically, we were in kind of an innovation type session and. Everybody was coming up with just random ideas, throwing things into the room. And somebody said to me, well, you can't get involved in this because you're not a creative. And I remember thinking, well, to be honest, I remember thinking, how dare you?

[00:18:59] But, you know, I, my, I think my retort at the time was everybody has the capacity to be creative. You know, that, piece of your brain exists that allows people to be creative. Just because I'm not a creative in this industry, in my role in this industry, it doesn't mean that I don't have creativity, that I don't have innovation, that I don't have ideas that I can bring to the table.

[00:19:19] And you know, that one really struck with me in terms of, I suppose, maybe assumptions or people thinking that, you know, like I said earlier with, with industries, we can't assume that certain industries or certain roles or certain functions are a certain way. You know, you're going to have every type of person existing.

[00:19:37] Within all of those different roles and functions and industries. And I remember, yeah, just feeling kind of, in a way, quite hurt about, how dare you call me not creative, I think I'm actually a relatively creative person. and that really resonating with me of, to learn from that myself and to not make those assumptions about other people in terms of any other.

[00:19:55] Ideas I might have about people, you know, finance people are X or tech people are [00:20:00] Y or, you know, it's such a Realistically a silly broad statement, you know, we can't we can't do that.

[00:20:05] Ross: yeah.

[00:20:05] and it makes it very easy to organize our world,

[00:20:08] Jess: Mmm. Oh,

[00:20:09] Ross: assumptions, but it's quite

[00:20:10] lazy as well, isn't it?

[00:20:12] Jess: Yeah. and yeah I think if you talk about business psychology organizational psychology in general, you know the whole concept of labeling or boxing or you know putting people into these categories It's makes it easier. It's sometimes helpful. It has its, has its merits,

[00:20:30] Ross: Hmm,

[00:20:31] Jess: but I suppose without taking the context into account, then you're not really understanding the group of people you have before you.

[00:20:39] Ross: yeah, absolutely. And you've hit upon something there for me about the word creative, because I think if you ask the majority of adults in the workplace, are you creative, they'll go, oh no. And in my experience, they tend to relate it to being able to draw a picture or paint.

[00:20:56] Jess: yeah, yeah,

[00:20:57] Ross: And I take a much broader view of it and think that people in tech can be creative.

[00:21:03] It's how they create new solutions. People in

[00:21:07] accounting can be creative. And I don't mean cooking the books. I mean like, mean like they can be creative in the way they advise their clients or approach businesses. so often adults in the workplace have kind of turned off that switch. And made the story

[00:21:22] about themselves, I'm not creative.

[00:21:27] Jess: absolutely. Yeah, I totally agree with that, actually. Because when I think of, you know, most recent kind of innovation type, I don't know, just ideas, thinking type workshops, anything like that, people will go, Oh, well, I'm not the right person for the job here, because I'm, I'm only in finance.

[00:21:42] I'm only in HR. What do I know? Like, you know so much.

[00:21:49] Ross: yeah. It's like really tapping into the experts in the organization.

[00:21:53] Jess: Mm hmm,

[00:21:54] Ross: And people sometimes don't value their profession.

[00:21:58] Or, or have a very limited view of [00:22:00] it. And I love what you're saying. Because it's those people who said, Oh, I'm just

[00:22:03] the

[00:22:04] Jess: mm.

[00:22:04] Ross: And they might give their, position in the hierarchy. Okay.

[00:22:07] Jess: Yeah, and I think I particularly see it, and you may agree or disagree, in kind of service functions.

[00:22:14] Ross: Hmm.

[00:22:15] Jess: just the service function. We're just HR. We service the business. We're just IT. We service the business. whereas, if those people weren't there, if those functions didn't exist, the business wouldn't exist.

[00:22:26] So, it's an interesting, concept in terms of how people talk to themselves and the language that they use around that that inner voice that we all have that chats away to us and tells us we're just this and we're only that

[00:22:39] Managers versus leaders

[00:22:39] Ross: yeah, and we can buy into that. What about, it strikes me similarly, is leadership,

[00:22:47] because I don't know about you, but I get people saying, well, I'm not a leader, or I get people saying, oh, I, I manage people, but I'm not a leader, and they, they make this distinction, and I'm not sure whether it's always clear to everyone, or the assumptions people make

[00:23:02] about that.

[00:23:03] Jess: Yeah, definitely. What I hear a lot of, rightly or wrongly, is just that. So people saying, I'm a manager. So that, the definition of that in their heads being, I manage three to five people, whatever it is.

[00:23:17] Versus I'm a leader, I

[00:23:19] sit in the senior leadership team, I'm on the exec. I'm a, you know, I have a certain, it's title based.

[00:23:25] so people, I think, tell themselves, or maybe the organization tells them as well, and maybe the actions of the organization and the structure of the organization tells them that they are just a manager, or I am a leader, or, you know, the titles that we then put on ourselves, which I think genuinely, not to sound cliche, but I genuinely think people Everybody could call themselves a leader. Everybody has a role. Everybody has something they bring to the table. It's just finding out what that thing that you bring to the table is.

[00:23:56] Ross: couldn't agree more, and it's something I try and persist with when [00:24:00] talking to organizations, is that we learn most effectively as human beings from social learning theory is through observing others. So in that sense, everyone has an opportunity to demonstrate. How they'd like this organization to be by the way they act, the way they behave, the way they communicate and interact.

[00:24:19] So in that sense, I consider everyone to be leaders, but I also agree with you. Everyone brings something to the table, and we're missing out on that as organizations if we don't seek to hear

[00:24:30] those voices and understand

[00:24:33] Leadership Catwalk

[00:24:33] Jess: It always makes me think of you talking about the leadership catwalk.

[00:24:37] And you're, strutting up and down the leadership catwalk and people are noticing what you're doing, what you're saying, how you're acting, how you're behaving. and You know, the role of leaders being role models, and that doesn't mean that that equates to a title, but if I'm whatever role in an organization, I can absolutely role model the behaviors that I accept, the boundaries that I want to put in place, how I want other people to treat me, much like you would do in your personal life. you know, understanding this, we have this concept of ourselves in our head, but also the way we talk to ourselves translates into how other people perceive us.

[00:25:18] Ross: Hmm. Absolutely. And we're going to come back to talk about leadership in part two of our chat and,

[00:25:24] Jess: Hmm.

[00:25:25] Ross: and some of the challenges we see in, in leadership development. I just wanted to come back to, to act, you know, that's my

[00:25:33] Jess: Mm hmm.

[00:25:34] Ross: specialism. And I know you've, you've had exposure from me and others, but just when did you first

[00:25:41] come across it? Can you, can you recall?

[00:25:43] Jess: It was actually through you.

[00:25:45] Ross: Ah.

[00:25:46] Jess: You are my intro to ACT,

[00:25:48] Ross: Why,

[00:25:48] Jess: um, which is great. So yeah, I think maybe I'd heard the word, but I didn't understand what it meant. [00:26:00] So

[00:26:00] I think in speaking with you, in facilitating with you, in reading and understanding and researching more about it, I think it's an incredibly interesting area and I've really noticed much more so in coaching so I think particularly in coaching, because it's a one on one generally situation where people are having a more maybe confidential or trusting, hopefully relationship that they, they feel they can, they can speak more freely, but that what I'm noticing really is more and more people.

[00:26:33] wanting help to understand how they can move past a thought, move past an emotion, move through, or I suppose in their words, move past, but maybe how do they sit with it? How do they accept it? How do they understand it? How do they, nurture that feeling, that thought to then be able to move to, okay, what's next?

[00:26:53] How can I

[00:26:54] accept this? Hold it? and continue.

[00:26:57] Um, so maybe I haven't used the best possible language in the world of acts, so apologies for that, but I suppose that's just a one version of what I'm seeing from, from

[00:27:07] my coaching.

[00:27:08] Cultural stereotypes

[00:27:08] Ross: No, it makes perfect sense. And notice, I notice Jez

[00:27:12] conforming to cultural stereotypes there of of Irish people by apologizing.

[00:27:18] Jess: Yeah.

[00:27:19] Ross: something I do notice in the, In the population of Ireland that people are very

[00:27:24] willing to apologize at the drop of a hat.

[00:27:26] Jess: Yeah, absolutely. I really noticed that one in Australia

[00:27:29] actually, going back to that cultural point, because Irish people broad statement would say, you know, sorry for excuse me. And so I'd say, sorry in Australian, I get out, you know, don't worry. But, Oh, I wasn't apologizing. I was trying to get past, couldn't understand.

[00:27:45] So I had to learn to say, excuse me, please, which I think, again, broad statement, I think Irish people think that that's a very blunt, you know, direct,

[00:27:54] you know, to say, excuse me, please seems nearly possibly slightly [00:28:00] aggressive.

[00:28:00] and so it's like, Oh, sorry, sorry.

[00:28:02] Um, feels a bit kinder, a bit softer, maybe.

[00:28:05] Ross: Yeah. We often

[00:28:06] get. Side tracked into conversations, well it's not side tracked really, it's really interesting about conversations about cultural differences, whether it's me thinking about Spain, whether it's you thinking about Ireland, Australia, London, and it's fascinating because these all play out in the workplace as

[00:28:23] well, and can lead to misunderstandings, assumptions, people being direct, what they think is being direct and other people being offended, so it's, it's a whole.

[00:28:35] Can of worms to open there in

[00:28:37] terms of cultural differences.

[00:28:39] Jess: Yeah, one thing that always sticks in my mind about that is, delivering a global coaching program. And, just having a huge variety of, of different cultures and backgrounds there. And talking about maybe a particular statement or question that you might ask in a certain scenario.

[00:28:54] Thank you. And Asking for feedback in the room from different people and some people saying, you know, from. My culture from where I live or for where I'm from, that would seem far too direct. That would seem that would come across maybe aggressive. That would be too soft. That would be, and it's just a huge variety of the exact same sentence, the exact same language, but the meaning behind it being hugely different.

[00:29:19] That one always sticks in my mind of making sure that people feel comfortable with the language that they're using when they're asking

[00:29:26] particular questions or, coaching. Oh,

[00:29:31] Ross: But Jess, thinking about your younger self when you were at school,

[00:29:35] Jess: Mm hmm.

[00:29:36] Ross: what advice would you give to.

[00:29:38] Young Jessington

[00:29:39] in the school place.

[00:29:43] Jess: Yeah. Ah, that's it. That's doing the rounds on social media. Write a letter to your 15 year old self.

[00:29:50] Ross: Oh! What I noticed

[00:29:54] Jess: from

[00:29:55] Ross: probably a

[00:29:56] Jess: lot of female influencers, dare I say, is a confidence [00:30:00] piece, you know, believe in yourself more.

[00:30:02] Points based education system in Ireland

[00:30:02] Jess: I think for me personally, I think I was really good at some subjects and just really not great at others. I never found a kind of a happy medium. I wasn't necessarily kind of a straight through the middle. I wasn't at the very top. I was like, either really good at something or just not good at it.

[00:30:19] And I don't think I ever really understood that. and therefore, I think in the Irish education system, you just get caught up in, in a point system because it is a point system. And, I think there'd be a lot of people that, If they're in this system would understand and, and hopefully agree with, you know, it's quite, uh, linear, you're kind of stuck in that point system.

[00:30:39] So, for me, it was kind of understanding that in the grand scheme of things, those points at the end of the day didn't. really matter. You know, I think I've thankfully found an area that I really enjoy, that I'm hopefully good at. Um, I suppose my point being, you know, really trying to focus on what you enjoy, what makes sense to you, what gives you meaning, is just much more fruitful than trying to be all things to all people, or trying to, trying so hard that you lose yourself, I suppose.

[00:31:12] so just knowing that's if you can really try and focus in on and understand and listen to yourself in terms of this brings me joy, I'm in the flow when I do this, I don't notice time passing, I get excited when I hear about this particular thing, then that's probably a route you should start exploring.

[00:31:30] Ross: Lovely, thank you. Now Jess, I've got a question I ask all my guests, which often makes them think deep and hard. It's the song choice. The song you would like to announce your arrival in a room, whether it's a real room or a virtual room, and this would be for the next few weeks, it's not forever, but every time you entered that room, this song would play.

[00:31:52] What are you

[00:31:52] thinking?

[00:31:54] Jess: I cannot tell you

[00:31:56] how much agonizing I've done over [00:32:00] this. I have asked multiple friends, I've asked family, and I can't tell you some of the answers that came back because some of them were a little bit rude.

[00:32:08] Ross: Hmm. Hmm.

[00:32:10] Jess: and I ended up just sticking with because I'd sit on that question for a year if you let me, is Town called Malice

[00:32:22] Ross: Whoa.

[00:32:24] Jess: and ironically enough you mentioned a um, Billy Elliot earlier which is a great song that sits in that movie but the reason I suppose I chose it, not for the lyrics, not for the meaning of the song because it means something particular, but it's just, it's energy, passion and fun and it is one of those songs that if I am in a funk I will turn it on and I will Go into the kitchen and we'll just start dancing around and bouncing around and I just love it.

[00:32:51] And Paul Weller, who I've seen so many times, usually ends his set with A Town Called Malice. And I just love it. I go wild every time. And yeah, it's the passion and the energy and the the tune and the excitement and the melody. And there is one lyric which I did pull out, which actually I quite liked, which is, because time is short and life is cruel, but it's up to us to change. And I thought, that's nice.

[00:33:17] Ross: Whoa.

[00:33:18] Jess: Well, it's, it's true.

[00:33:20] Ross: Goosebumps. And I love it that you chose that, because I didn't know what Jess was going to choose, Peashoopers. I love that because it really represents you to me, that passion, that energy, that fun, it's what you bring to your, to your work and your interactions with organizations. So I think it's a brilliant choice.

[00:33:39] Jess: Thanks!

[00:33:40] Ross: And I'm just now sort of imagining you in the mosh pit. Oh,

[00:33:46] Jess: it's happened.

[00:33:51] Ross: That's it folks. Part one of my chat with Jess in the bag, but fear not Jess will be back next week when we'll be unpacking leadership development and [00:34:00] sharing our perspectives. You'll find the show notes for this episode at People Soup Captivate fm or wherever you get your podcasts. If you like this episode, I'd love it if you told me why.

[00:34:12] I'll read out a selection of your comments and reviews in a future episode. You can email at people soup dot pod@gmail.com and the socials. There's been a bit of a change there at Peace Supers, I've stopped posting on Twitter because I no longer value the place it has become. I've also retired my Facebook page for Peoples Soup as my confidence in the platform has diminished greatly. I'm still posting on Instagram at People Soup, and I'm on LinkedIn too, as well as a new account on Blue Sky. Just search for my name

[00:34:43] Now more than ever, you can help me reach more people with the special people, soup, ingredients, stuff that could be really useful for them. So please do share, subscribe, rate, and review.

[00:34:53] thanks to Andy Glenn for his spoon magic and Alex Engelberg for his vocals. but most of all, dear listener, thanks to you, look after yourselves. Peace supers and bye for now.

[00:35:04] Now the rumour has it that the girl

[00:35:06] group was bewitched. Do you have any comment?

[00:35:12] Jess: I don't think I, I don't think I do well in double denim.

[00:35:15] Ross: No?

[00:35:20] Jess: I'm afraid to say that one is a myth.