Hello everybody.

Welcome to the show.

This is the get you some productions podcast.

A podcast covering everything related to music production from the first note to the last fan and everything in between.

My name is Keith.

And my name is Daniel.

And today we have a special guest, Jen Allen, who is a very accomplished jazz pianist, composer and educator.

We're super excited to have her on the show.

Before we get to the interview, please click if you want to support the show.

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We'll put your links first, Jen.

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Gear there and buy that metronome that you've been meaning to get because you keep practicing tapping your foot, but you going to need that metronome.

So go ahead.

Yeah, don't buy any more gear.

Take a lesson.

Stop buying gear.

Okay.

So Jen, so first of all, I will say this for me.

So I learned about you through the.

I think it's called, what is it called?

Jazz and blues in the Groove.

I think it's a Hartford, specifically Hartford based podcast.

No, yeah, it was.

Yeah.

Is he still doing it?

Yes, I know what you're talking about.

That show was so valuable to me because I did not know how vibrant the jazz scene was for, you know, I mean, I guess, you know, when you, when you're a jazz fan, you listen to everything.

But the most of the stuff you listen to is from at this point, 60 years ago.

So.

So I didn't realize how vibrant the jazz scene was.

I was so gratified to learn that there, there is a very vibrant jazz scene in, well, on the planet in general.

But I didn't know there was such a bustling scene in Hartford specifically.

Anyway, so I became a fan of yours through that show and I've heard a lot of your music through that show.

I think you were mostly.

I think I've listened to.

In preparation for the show.

I listened to your two albums a lot.

So I have some questions and I thought they were wonderful, but I have some questions about those.

But I think what I heard mostly on that show was you playing as a side person.

No.

Which you've done a lot of.

And I wish there was Maybe I missed it on your site, but I wish there was a list of, like, your entire discography.

Is there?

No, but that's a good thing.

I actually was doing my bio last night for something else, and I'm like, I haven't really updated this in a while, so, yeah, something I need to do.

It's on my to do list.

So.

You are a very accomplished musician.

I have to just, you know, tell you that you are slumming it coming on our show, which is, you know, but we don't.

We don't.

We don't care.

We punch up.

So we want to know.

So the first question we always ask everyone is, we want to know your story, and this could be your story.

I think it's important for people, fans, and then also musicians to learn people's stories and hear people's stories in their voice directly from them.

So it could be.

You could tell us about your experience growing up and how you got into music.

Your superhero origin story, so to speak, is how we like to put it.

And, you know, I guess don't hold anything back or, you know, just tell us, you know, how you got into music and a little bit about your life, all that stuff.

Is that cool?

Yeah.

Sounds great.

Makes sense.

Beautiful.

Yeah.

So I grew up in Foxborough, Massachusetts, so a lot of people know that town because of the Patriots, which was huge in my family, so I don't watch football anymore, but it was a thing.

Great small town to grow up in, specifically because the music program was really good in the town.

And especially back in, like, the 80s and 90s when I was there, that was something that wasn't always possible for a lot of young people.

And we had a great band director in my high school named Stephen Matthew, who is very well known in music education, specifically jazz education.

He now retired, but he is well known for that.

And I didn't know any of this as I was growing up.

I loved music.

My mom really was encouraging of music.

She got us all into piano lessons.

She was a single mom, and she knew somebody who gave piano lessons.

And my older sisters, who are much older than me, were taking lessons and.

And the man, you know, really liked my mom in a.

And really took a little pity on her and said, you know, if you want to put your other daughter in, because I had three sisters who were taking lessons, he's like, I'll teach her for free.

But he was kind of like a scary man to me.

And so I was probably like 6 or 7.

And he would just smoke, like, chain smoke during the lessons and, like, had this really deep, like, scary cough because of it.

And so I took one one year of lessons and I was like, mom, I am done.

I don't want to go back to see him again.

And.

And so I stopped.

But I really was very interested in music.

And as soon as I could take lessons, it was the.

The very first thing was violin.

And it was the first year they were putting strings into our school.

So it was extra special.

I was like, I'm going to be the first to do this.

And I did.

I signed up, play violin for a year.

Hated it.

And then I switched over to the cello.

And so I ended up playing cello from fifth grade, I think, all the way through high school.

And that was my primary instrument, and I was an orchestra and doing all of that.

I really just.

I loved music.

I didn't love practicing.

I was not a good practicer.

And I tell all my students that up until high school, it's just.

It was hard for me to even, like, enjoy that other than being with other people.

And so I think that's pretty typical of young people.

But when I was going into my junior year of high school, the band, which was a well recognized jazz band in the area back in the 90s, the band director needed a pianist, and he knew I was a hard worker and I could sit down and plunk things out on the piano just because of the very early lessons I had.

And we had a piano at home, and I would just sometimes, you know, take out whatever books were in my piano stool and just try to read them, which I thought was fun.

My mom had, like, old 70s lead sheets and, like, you know, just a ton of weird music, and I just liked doing that.

And I don't know how he had the foresight to think Jen would be good at playing jazz piano in the jazz band, but he did.

I think of it as one of those moments in time where my life drastically changed for the better.

And I had no idea it was coming.

And so he asked me to.

If I would play in the jazz.

Unlike a lot of towns, it was a pretty small town, but he had this very vibrant jazz program.

And he was.

He was kind of like taking a shot in the dark to ask me.

But he handed me a stack of records, which I was like, I don't even know if I have a record player.

I'm not that old.

He handed me this giant stack of records, and he goes, okay, go home for the summer and listen to these.

And I was just like, all right.

And I started listening, and I was like, wow, okay.

I don't know anything about this, but I really love this music.

And so I started taking classical piano lessons and jazz piano lessons all at once.

I.

I knew lessons were really important, and I didn't know what I was doing, so I just kind of jumped into both of them.

And so, you know, I'm like, maybe 16, 17 years old at this time, and it was like my life again just blossoms.

And I was like, this is the music I've always been looking for.

Because even though I've been playing and I loved classical music, I never wanted to play things the same way twice.

And it drove my teachers crazy.

You know, they were just like, what is going on?

And I didn't know that improvisation was the thing that I was really looking for.

And as soon as I could be the creator of it, it was like, it's over.

I started writing music.

I started, you know, really getting into improvisation.

I just couldn't stop.

And so by the end of my, you know, or the beginning of my senior year, I've been playing like a year, plus some because of the summer.

And I was like, like, planning to take auditions on cello.

Took auditions on cello for music school.

And I remember coming home and telling my mom I was, like, crying because she had just bought me this brand new cello that they couldn't really afford and saying, I don't think I want to play cello.

I think I want to be a jazz pianist.

And she was really understanding.

And my stepdad was.

They were really supportive, and they sold the shallow because they couldn't afford it.

And I took a year off from high school and started really seriously studying jazz at.

I took some lessons at Berkeley and at Laundry School of Music in Boston, and then the following year, took auditions at different music schools and ended up at the Hart School, where I met Jackie McQueen.

And my life just changed direction, and it was amazing.

So, yeah, that's kind of like how I got started and, you know, how I've always been into music, but those specific things seem like still those points of time that really changed everything forever now.

Yeah.

So now you're bringing me back to that podcast because now I'm remembering Jackie MacLean and the Hart School and who were some of the other people who came out of that school from your era?

Just to jog my memory.

Yeah.

So people like Wayne is Godfrey and Jimmy Green.

They were a little older than me.

Just like, a few years older.

Julius Tolentino, my ex husband, Chris Allen.

Who else was there at that time, there's so many people.

I mean, those were people that I was specifically in school with at that time.

But there's so many people who are like.

Eric McPherson was there before me.

Abraham Burton, like, people that are like Durubo.

I mean, Steve Davis was teaching there, went there.

I mean, just a large list of really great musicians that I know.

I'm forgetting some people, people from my era who are, like, professional musicians now.

Brandi Younger.

Oh, yeah.

Oh, gosh.

Brandy's playing.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

So did you study with Jackie McLean directly?

So, yeah, Jackie never, like, gave personal lessons or anything like that, but he did this thing called saxophone masterclass, so.

And everybody was invited.

So it was like, the one time in the week where he was specifically teaching.

And so I would play in the rhythm section.

Well, there would be sometimes a couple of cannons, and we'd rotate.

And he would teach to stuff to the saxophonists.

And, like, obviously we're learning that stuff too.

And sometimes he would take the rhythm section aside and teach us things.

And.

And it was like, you know, four years of really just hearing his stories, learning about life, learning about the music, the history of the music.

And then he actually.

He did teach in the history class one year, too.

He was kind of transitioning out of that.

I think that was super important to him as well.

The history of the music, us learning, the real history, not just, like, the history that certain people tell.

And from his point of view of being in Harlem in the 40s and 50s, you know, kind of coming through all that.

So it was really, really a special time.

You know, you don't know it when you're there.

You kind of know that he has this depth of knowledge, and you're trying to soak it all in, but in reflection, it's always so much more important and meaningful.

I'll tell you a quick story.

So I went to.

I suck at jazz, by the way.

I absolutely suck.

But I started doing some master's classes 20 years ago, probably at Queens College, and I got to study.

I took a semester with Roland Hanna.

Oh, nice.

And it was an ensemble arranging course, like a small ensemble.

And I was trying to do, like, four and five part parallel harmony, knowing nothing.

Just.

I knew nothing about it.

And the entire semester, he tortured me.

Every time I brought in my arrangement, he would just say, no, that was awful.

Do it again.

And it was semester after semester.

And I will tell you, there were some classes, Dan and I know because we studied music at Bard College, and there were some classes where you would be Sick.

Like I would have like actual diarrhea before class.

And this is one of those classes.

And he just said there was no feedback.

It was just every time or it was like the tiniest little shred of feedback.

But I think he wanted me to just do it over and over and over again.

And it was like the worst but the best experience because finally at the end of the class, he finally said, you know, I brought out this arrangement.

It was the.

I think it was like the last or the second to last class.

It was an entire semester of struggle with almost no feedback.

And then I finally put this arrangement in front of the musicians.

And then he said, you know, I think you actually finally got it.

And then all the other musicians came back to me and they said, dude, that was amazing.

What killed me was the very next semester I took another, the exact same course with another teacher.

And he said, no, you just have to do here are the rules.

And it was like one class where I learned the rules.

And then I was like, hell, there are just specific rules that I didn't know.

Like, you know, just which intervals or whether to put, you know, a certain voice on top or not.

You know, just like they were just rules.

And he said, oh, no, once you know the rules, you can do it.

And then, then it was formulaic and I could do it a million times.

But yeah, still, I don't know, it makes a good story.

So that's why I always think about if you're taking, if you're studying with one of the old schoolers, I always like, you know, I always think about that because those guys were different.

You know, they.

And they also learned in a different way.

100.

Yeah.

Jackie, though, was very big into education.

I mean, he, he actually had some stuff to show and he was, he was like to pass down the language to show us ideas.

And as I said, he would pull us aside.

He wasn't like showing me piano things, but he was showing me improvisation things.

And I mean, he started the artist collective in Hartford, which is a community based, like art school for young people in an impoverished kind of neighborhood.

It was really important for him to like pass that down.

He started the jazz program at the heart school.

And he had to fight so hard for it to be legitimate in education's eyes because people don't see the older ways of like teaching by ear and repetition, as you were saying, as kind of like a, a viable way of learning.

But it was for them.

I mean, he, he talks about, he would tell us stories about going out to hear Jackie going out to hear Charlie Parker.

And then he would just run home and grab his horn and have to remember it.

I mean, nobody does that anymore.

You know, like that kind of intensity of like, I really want to learn this.

What was he doing?

Go figure it out.

And also that exploration, you know, like, maybe it was a struggle for you to do that, but the actual exploration phase is so important in the music that I think that a lot of young people actually miss that nowadays because it's so easy to find a transcription.

It's so easy to just go online and try to find a quick answer.

We didn't have that even back in.

In the 90s when I was in school.

You just had to go to the library, put your headphones in and listen and listen and listen and listen.

And I keep telling my students at this point that, like, if you listen, the more you listen, it's in.

It's amazing what your ear will do.

It like, learns things, like, in a way that we can't consciously always put our finger on.

So anyway, that's a little tangent, but I get what you're saying about like, the kind of old school way of teaching and.

And the new.

But I think that there's a lot of.

A lot of depth to that.

So.

Yeah, okay.

So I think because you're an educator, there's some.

We can go down that rabbit hole a little bit.

But I think maybe.

I think if you don't mind, one of my favorite things to ask.

And I'm a.

I love piano, by the way.

I think maybe I was actually meant to.

I play guitar, but I think I was meant to play piano.

And so many of my favorite artists, including probably one of my top artists of all time, are piano players.

So can we talk about your influences?

I'm very curious because I really.

I had your two albums on loop for the past, like, couple of weeks, and hopefully you get some few streams out of it.

You get maybe a few pennies for the streams.

So.

But so I really love piano and so I really want to know about your influences, especially on the piano side, but in general.

And then.

So let's start with that.

But also some of your compositional, because I think I heard some.

I mean, I think I heard some compositional influences for sure, but I'd like to hear about those as well.

Yeah, so I think some of my favorite pianists are.

I always say, my favorite favorite.

This is like nothing new to anybody who knows me, but is Kenny Kirkland.

I could listen to him forever and Ever and never get bored.

And I think is he only made one album, but of his own.

But he's on a ton of albums and he died so young, age 42, I think it was.

And I remember when that happened back in the 90s.

And so there was just.

And my.

One of my mentors, Nat Reeves, who taught at At Heart, played with him a lot.

And so I got to hear him live a bunch of times and that would give me the little whatever those mini disc thing recordings he would get back in the 90s.

And he would give me recordings that like bootlegs of the gigs that they did.

So I got to hear him a lot.

So he was a huge influence on me.

Mulgrew Miller, Cedar Walton.

Those are three that I think I just.

Wynton Kelly, just really like those are foundational to my learning.

But there are, there were so many.

I mean, Sunny Clark, Phineas Newborn, Refine As Newborn, Chick Corea, Herbie Hancock.

I would say those are, those are kind of like the first people that come to mind that I always, when I'm teaching my students.

Those are people that I, I send them to.

They're especially your first album.

There was.

There's like a sweetness to a lot of your playing, the compositionally, but there's also like a very sweetness to the melodicism of your playing.

So I'm actually really surprised to hear a lot of those influences.

But I get Cedar Walton.

Yeah, there's an ebullience to the way he played.

What about melody?

Yeah, melody is really important to me.

So funny enough like, like someone like Bill Evans or maybe Brad Meldow or people who are also like very important to me, they have that as their like importance.

But like I tend towards like those other musicians like for listening and like I think it kind of meshes together because one of my first, like probably albums that I, I listened to the most was, was like Waltz for Debbie.

You know, I think I heard that and I was like, wow, I didn't even know.

This is important for me.

But as I grew, he became less important for me, which is an interesting thing.

So take that as it is.

But the idea when I'm writing music, melody is super key and it doesn't have to be obviously when you're writing melody, it doesn't have to be a melodic, long, soaring melody.

I, I do like those.

But there are a lot of pieces that are kind of motif based or like kind of segments.

So like on my second album, Blanket Statement, that was like when I wrote that specific Tune.

I was like, let's break out of this long, lush melody thing that you do.

Just do something different.

And honestly, it's like the song.

Everybody who ever listens to that album, they're like, I love this song.

Musicians, I throw it in front of them.

They love the song.

And it's just funny because that song, out of a lot of my songs, I really thought more about.

Instead of letting my ear lead me, even though I let my ear lead me in a lot of directions, I was like, I want to make something that's a little bit more angular and a little bit more edgy.

And so, yeah, I don't know.

I kind of again, went off on a tangent.

I don't know if that's where you were going with it, but I do.

Yeah, I was actually kind of going there because that was one of the questions I was going to ask you.

There were two.

So I'm actually curious about.

So I was sort of hinting at it.

But Bill Evans, I mean, everybody loves Bill Evans, but Bill Evans is probably one of the top musicians for me of all time.

But.

But there is something like.

I don't know what it is about the way he plays that is.

He's almost like a music machine or something, you know, so it was so interesting to hear you say that as your early.

And then Brad Meldow is like, you know, what if Bill Evans on crack or something.

So what if, you know.

So interesting to hear that.

You said that they were important to you in the beginning, but then as you, let's say, musically matured.

Maybe they were not so important.

They became less important in some way.

I mean, maybe Bill Evans.

Brad Meldow still is an enormous influence on me as a modern pianist.

I mean, how can he not?

I mean, the whole.

He's just has such a huge influence on how the music has been performed.

The introduction of pop, Modern pop music into it.

And again, that sense of melodic and harmonic, how he mixes those two are just amazing.

So I.

I mean, he's definitely a huge influence.

There's.

What's the Charlie Barker song that he plays in Trio?

Do you.

Do you know the version of.

It's a rhythm changes and I can't remember which one it is.

What's.

Is it Olio or.

No, it's.

Fuck.

That one.

Yeah.

What's the name of that one?

I can't remember right now.

I'm so bad with all those rhythm changes.

Ones that all kind of like, what the fuck, dude?

That was insane.

That was insane.

If this Were.

You know, if this were just like some sort of piano geek podcast, I think we could just sit here and, like, just talk about versions of songs that fuck us up.

That one is really intense.

There's a lot of.

He does amazing things and so many things.

And he's from West Hartford, which is the town where.

Yeah.

Where I was living for a very long time.

My kids go to my school there.

So it's all full circle.

A fruit area.

So.

So the piano influences.

Those are really interesting.

I wrote them all down because I think it's going to be interesting to, like, listen back to some of their playing and then go back to your playing.

Yeah, I think sometimes with influences.

It's funny, I don't always find that my.

And it's funny, people will tell me they hear different things in my music from time to time, and I'm always like.

Because I obviously have gleaned things from these artists.

I transcribe, I listen to them, but I go.

I guess when I go to create, I'm not thinking about them.

I'm thinking about what I want, you know, and so sometimes those ideas get morphed.

Oh, and Bud Powell, man, my students would kill me.

I talk about Bud Powell all the time.

He was like, probably one of them.

The most influential early ones.

Again, I don't sound anything like Bud, pal.

So.

No.

So I don't know if this is.

You can elaborate on this, but compositionally, I did notice there was a very heavy influence on melody.

So I was curious.

I just had a thought, like, maybe.

So I would.

I guess, you know, I'll just ask you point blank, can you tell us about your compositional process?

But that was my reflection, as I said, oh, she's really focused on melody.

And I had a thought.

Maybe it was interesting that maybe you don't think about harmony that much when you're composing and you just put the harmony on afterward.

Or maybe you come up with the harmony, but then you labor so much on the melody that it sounds natural, you know, Those are the things that I was thinking about as I was listening.

But I did notice that it's a very.

You had a melodic.

It came out that you were very melodically focused.

Yeah, no, I do both at the same time.

I don't try to extract one or the other.

I find.

And when I teach composition is the same thing.

I find that they go hand in hand.

They inform one another.

So my.

My process is typically.

It's the most fun thing in the world.

Like, I love writing music.

I would do it day and night if that's all I could do.

I mean, I would almost give up playing just to.

To write music because I.

I just find that that's not true because I love being in a band.

I'll say no to that.

But yeah, the process is just.

It's where I feel life flowing, right.

Like it literally feels like I'm living fully when I am in that, that moment of, of creativity.

And it's typically melody and harmony and the different kinds of combinations of that.

I'd like to think about the pacing of things that's really, really important to me, like how things flow.

So when I'm writing and I'm just.

It's typically an improvisational kind of thing where I'm trying to find ideas.

And once I get an idea harmonically, melodically, and I'm sitting there with it, it's like what does.

What needs to come next?

It's like a game and does it need something?

And it's not always a thought about thing.

It's a feeling really deep within me of like, do I need something that's moving a little quicker?

Do I need some space now?

Like.

And it's really intuitive in terms of how it is.

I think that that's just come over time.

I mean in terms of like what I like in music, how I like music to sound.

They're like, I don't love music that feels imbalanced to me in terms of like, it's just really note heavy and there's not a lot of space.

I.

I like things to feel like, like they're moving in some kind of just.

Yeah, like equanimity of like things feeling balanced.

So if it's.

There's a busy section, I usually have something that's a little bit more space on the next.

So if you listen to my pieces, that typically is how it goes.

Like I'm looking for that kind of balanced view throughout the whole thing.

But it's, it's just so much fun just to find a melody that comes out.

Sometimes it is a little motif, sometimes it's a really short thing.

I do a lot of posting, not a lot.

I should do more online of little ideas I'm working on just in how, how they come about.

And if you go back, you know, you can hear some of them and if you come out to some of my concerts, you'll.

You'll hear them as full pieces because I'll take those ideas, you know, maybe eight measures, sometimes 16, and then blow them up into bigger band things.

Or just larger compositions as a whole.

I get really bored with just straight lead sheets generally.

Like, if it's 32 measures.

Most of my charts are not like that.

I love odd forms.

I love extra little sections.

Makes it very difficult to play on the spot with musicians.

But so I don't, you know, if I don't have a lot of rehearsal, I don't play some of those charts.

That's the only difficulty of them.

But, yeah, I just, I'm always looking for that next surprise.

I think if you listen to my music and I have a new album coming out this next year, it's, it's specifically like this.

But even on my older albums, like, you'll hear the, the head or the, the piece.

And then if you listen to the head out, I usually add something, like, to just change it up.

Like, I like little surprises like that, or they'll be in the middle.

I've really gotten into, like, having different solo sections so that it kind of is not predictable.

So just trying to keep that spontaneity in the music instead of it being, like just a leachy.

Not that there's anything wrong with that, but it's just not.

When I'm writing music, it's not where I want to be.

And then there's big band and all that stuff, which I love doing so totally different.

I, I, I heard a bit of that.

I definitely heard a bit of that in the records.

And I did want to say that one thing I really liked was you use a lot of vamps in the, in the, either in the intro or the outro or both.

And I thought that was, I bet, I bet musicians love that.

But I thought that was really fun because, you know, you have the melody and you have the, and you have the harmony and you have a compose section where there's, you know, there's some stuff going on that, you know, is a little bit more challenging to the ear, let's say.

Not that your music is challenging to the ear.

It's, you know, it's, it wasn't particularly like.

It's not like, very heady like that, you know, like, it's not, you know, super out there or anything, but there were sections, you know, that were, you know, melodic or there may be some rhythmic hits.

There were a lot of those.

But then when you had the vamps, especially in the end, and you use them pretty prodigiously, like there was a vamp on.

I felt like there was some kind of vamp in the beginning or the end or both of maybe half the songs.

Or something.

Am I?

Am I?

Is that.

Yeah, probably.

Especially on my first album.

I think I was really into that at that time.

It was super fun.

Right.

Quite a long time ago.

But, yeah, my next album is definitely a little bit different.

Very, very different because I have vocalists on it.

But, yeah, I love exploring bass lines, hits, anything that can just, like, again.

So you're just not going in there and having a walking base, like, well, what.

And, like, swinging and, you know, like, I love that, but what else can we do with it?

With that same rhythm section?

How can we make it sound different?

So, yeah, and that's something I get from Cedar Walton.

Cedar Walton has amazing trio tunes like.

And they're just such little packets of hits, baselines.

They know what they're doing when they're doing it.

So, yeah, that's something I kind of steal from him and do it my own way.

But, yeah, yeah, I liked a lot of it.

And I wasn't sure how to categorize it or.

Because there were some vamps that were, I don't know, so sort of not your typical.

Well, I don't know, I want to say not your typical, but, like, you know, not your average jazz vamp, but they were, you know, maybe a little Latin at times.

There were some odd meters, I noticed, so it was very cool.

Your comment.

I just.

This is random, but your comment about.

Your comment about trio, trio arrangements just made me think of one of my favorite jazz records, piano records of all time, Errol Garner, Concert by the Sea.

Oh, yeah.

I don't think there's.

Oh, I.

I don't even know what.

I don't.

I just want to say that because I.

I just want to say that out loud.

But so before, if you like Errol.

Garner, you should check out.

I just checked this one out in the last few months called the Magician, and it's kind of wild.

It.

He has electric face on it.

And they just do all pop tunes, like, from that, like the 70s or something.

And they're all bluesy, and it's really.

It's one of my newest favorite albums.

So if you want to geek out on that one, that one's a good one.

That's an Errol Garner record.

The Magician, you said?

I think it's either magician or the Magician.

I can't remember which one.

Okay, so just a couple more notes about compositions and the arrangements on the two records.

Because my sun is, like, coming through my window now.

So one thing I noticed between the two records and this.

And I would love for you, as you Know, as a composer and also, you know, a professional to either correct me if I'm wrong or.

But this is sort of like something that I noticed that the first record was kind of more in a modern jazz maybe.

And I know I told you I noticed a lot of sweetness in it.

The harmony and the melody, the quality of the melodies.

There was a lot of sweetness in that one.

So more of like a.

Like a Herbie sort of, you know, ensemble sort of vibe.

The second record, I think, was a little grittier, maybe, like a messenger's kind of vibe, you know, and maybe it was.

I mean, maybe it was the inclusion of the trumpet.

I don't know.

But were you going for anything like that, or was it.

Or am I totally off base or what?

Well, the one with the two horns is my first album.

And that one.

Yeah.

I don't know.

I think sometimes they're just more reflective of.

Of where I'm in at that space and time.

And, like, when I wrote Pieces of Myself, my first album, I was living in New York.

We were there only for a little bit of time.

It was very.

It felt like a gritty time in life, like, being there.

Also, I had a very young son and I was pregnant, and it was just.

I felt spread thin and, like, there.

So there were a lot of, like, components.

And that's why it's called Pieces of Myself.

It was like a real reflection of that.

So I don't think I was trying to go for the vibe, though.

Chris Allen and.

And Josh Evans both have that kind of sound, too.

And the two of them together have that kind of.

You know, if you listen to Josh Evans, who, again, from the Hartford area, great trumpet player in New York right now, they just.

They have that same history.

So I think they give it that sound even more so than the compositions, maybe.

And I think on one song, Chris arranged just the horns.

So, you know, so you're getting a little bit more of his sound.

And maybe that one song.

Yeah, so that's that one.

And then Sifting Grace was a little softer time in my life where I'm really just trying to, again, find parts of myself.

My music is very reflective of where I am.

I can't help it.

It's so personal.

So just some struggles as going through.

And my music is a way to get through that stuff.

And so my mom had passed away.

I think that that was a lot of.

Of that album.

Begin Again was like, kind of that, you know, very.

Just reflective and the word.

Just trying to make sense of where I was in life.

So if it has a little softer vibe or more like long melodies, I think it's because that's how I was feeling.

I wasn't feeling edgy and being in New York feeling like my mom.

And I'm fighting through this.

It was more like I feel kind of spent and trying to figure out my way through all of this stuff.

So.

Yeah.

Cool.

Well, that's beautiful then.

Okay, so I think that we.

So I.

I heard you say that you.

Oh, well, there's.

I'm trying to see.

We.

We usually go for an hour.

We have about 15 minutes left.

So I'm trying to see what we have time for.

Maybe we should go straight to what your plans for the future are or if you have anything going on, if you want to plug.

So like I told you before we started, I don't know when this is going to come out because we have a bunch already recorded that it might take us a while.

So I think we might want to just.

I was curious about your process as an educator, which maybe if we could talk briefly about that and then maybe you could talk about what's going on now, projects you have lined up, stuff like that.

Sure.

Yeah, we can do that.

Yeah.

As an educator, I am doing a lot of teaching right now.

Kind of trying to slow down on that a little bit just because it's so much outward focus, and I need to be doing some of this stuff, the creative stuff that the education is super important, and I did learn this from Jackie, is the idea that sharing the history of the music is something that I can do and I feel compelled to do in a way that is purposeful.

Telling the story of the people who came before and who created this music, telling my own story.

As a woman in this, I find to be really important.

Being a woman in jazz is a whole other thing.

So, you know, I find that I'm.

I'm.

Especially at the age I'm feeling more compelled to be that kind of mentor for the younger people that I, you know, sometimes had and sometimes didn't have in.

In the industry.

And so I think it's.

That's kind of my mission going forward at this time.

And going forward is like, am I representing this music in the most way that needs to be, or I find important, like the history that I learned and also giving them the kinds of experiences that I've had, because at this time now I've been in the industry for quite some time, share those experiences.

So my own personal.

And the stuff that I've heard Before it's.

I mean, teaching this music is.

I feel like it's a responsibility, you know, like that.

It's very.

It's.

It's turning to a more educational model as it's in these higher ed places and more high schools and stuff, which is great, but you do lose a little bit of that.

That old traditional way of learning it.

And not that I am.

I am not one of those, like, got to do it.

It has to be swinging.

Like, I'm not like that.

But I think it's really important to tell the story of the people who came before and who paved the way and not lose that essential history of this music.

And so in.

Even in just private lessons, I'm talking about Jackie.

I'm talking about the stories I heard from him or other musicians that I have learned from, like Matt Reeves, who was.

Who's worked with Pharaoh Sanders.

And I just like a number of people like Ken Garrett.

Like that.

You're getting that.

The.

That experience from them, but also from my own experiences of being out with other musicians and being on gigs.

So that's kind of my goal.

Cool.

I love that.

Do you.

So what.

What's going.

What.

What are you planned for?

What are you planning for the future in terms of your music, like your compositions, records?

I know you said you had a record coming out.

Anything else, you know, of interest?

Yeah, I've got a lot of stuff going on right now, which is very exciting, but we're doing.

Where do I start?

Okay, so I have the new album that's called Possibilities.

It'll be coming out in 2025 sometime.

Hold on one second.

So, yeah, so I have an album coming out in 2025 that will.

I'm not sure when it'll be on Truth Revolution Records.

It's an album with two singers.

I wrote the lyrics, I arranged all the music.

It'll be very different than my other albums, which I'm very excited about.

And so I'll be promoting that, doing some kind of touring hopefully later in the year.

With that, I have another project that I have called Collective Breath, where I kind of mix my.

Kind of my.

I don't say my love for.

But like my.

I do a lot of breath work and meditation, and it's been really informative and helpful in my life and in my creativity.

So I've started this project called Collective Breath, which is a.

A suite of music that encourages the audience to kind of like, be in an immersive time, where I lead them through a, like one small breath work practice.

In the midst of, like, jazz music.

So it.

But it's not like the typical jazz music.

So it's a slightly different.

So it's not New Agey.

Like if you went to a yoga studio and you were trying to learn breath work and meditation, like, I know some people don't want that, but I know some people like jazz.

And so it's kind of like a mix of all of that coming together.

It's kind of hard to explain, but I'm trying to get better at that.

And so that's another project I'm working on.

I'm also creating this business called Creative Alignment, which is just creativity kind of classes and mentoring, where I just help people learn how to dig into their creative practices.

So just like I've been doing this writing music, improvising, being in the music sphere my whole life, and I realized that a lot of people don't get to have those experiences or they don't realize that those experiences in the arts are something that you can also transfer to the rest of your life and learn how to creatively create your life, you know, so learning how to create alignment in our lives through creative practices, meditation, breath work, all of those things kind of combined in one.

So there I'm trying to do both the music and a little bit of this creative alignment stuff.

So that's kind of a quick rundown.

That's awesome.

I didn't realize you had that whole, like, holistic element that you're cultivating those last two projects out of the box.

That's cool.

Yeah, it's super important to me.

I think that's kind of my goal going forward.

I actually got a grant from this Green Stage, Guilford.

It's a place in Connecticut.

They have asked me to create a piece, and my.

My vision for it is it's called one, or.

I don't even remember what I named it, quite honestly, but my just like another one of, like the kind of tenants of why I want to even consider continue doing music or teaching creativity is that we're connected and there's so much divisiveness out there right now.

And like, if I can do anything through my music and the things that I'm doing, I want to just help people realize that we're more alike than we are different.

How can we come together?

How can we look at nature and the world around us and remember that there's so much good out there?

And so trying to put the good out there through these projects and my Creative Alignment stuff just to help people to, you know, tap into these things that are available to everybody, like this creative energy that is, it's there for everyone.

People look at musicians and be like, oh, it's a special.

Like, no, you have that too.

You just have to figure out where it is in your life, you know, so that's super important to me.

That's awesome.

You have kind of have an infectious energy.

So I think maybe the right person to lead that kind of effort.

Yeah.

So I actually.

So the reason how we finagled you to get you on this show is because we're Facebook friends.

And I did notice that you were posting kind of spiritual, inspirational things over the past, I don't even know, couple months, six months, something like that.

Dan and I have been sort of tossing around the idea of starting another separate podcast that is, you know, self help, self actualization, spirituality, sort of in nature.

So I think a lot of people are feeling something right now, and I think that it's really important.

All I can say just to wrap this show up is that I will second what Dan says.

Your energy is great and we couldn't be more grateful to you for being who you are, frankly.

Just, you know, putting yourself out there, helping so many people, having this energy, being willing to tell your story.

I think that it's just really important and I think we can lose sight of it so easily, you know, and forget.

And especially musicians too.

You get so wrapped up in like an ego thing that it's like what I'm creating or something.

I don't know what it is, but I think so.

I really want to just express some gratitude for you and appreciation.

Also the appreciation that you'd even deign to come on our show.

Show at all.

I'm just, I appreciate it.

I'll taking that all in.

I thank you very much.

That's really nice.

And I, I, we all need that encouragement to keep doing the things we're doing because everybody gets discouraged and be like, what am I doing with my life?

Yeah.

And you think it's not worth it.

And everybody needs that encouragement.

So I, I receive it and I thank you for that because being on here, it's important to like, share what we all are doing.

So this is great.

I'm glad that you guys are doing this and allowing people like me to have a little place to say, hey, I'm here.

Not that it's about me.

Like, I just, I want to just be a part of, of anything that's creative.

Quite honestly, if it's creative, it's, it's good you know, amen.

Amen to that.

So that's like a great high note to, to, to sort of get to the end of this.

But we do want to make sure that we.

There's nothing wrong with shameless self promotion too.

Okay.

So of course, you know, afterwards we'll, we'll exchange information and we'll be, you know, make sure to post.

Get people access to, to what you're doing.

Keith, did you have any.

Well, I mean, you know, it's customary to ask the guest to say what, you know, the URL or something.

But you know.

Well, I mean we'll, our process is we basically just put it at the top of the, at the, at the top of the show notes.

But also, you know, we have sort of like a two week schedule.

So for the two weeks running up to the show, to the release of the show, we'll post, you know, every day on all of our socials and plus, you know, I'll find a bunch of jazz, you know, Facebook groups or something and just you know, make sure to, you know, make.

Get some people to hit your website at least or anywhere else you want to dirt.

You tell us where you want to direct people and then we'll.

From there.

But yeah, but you're right, but so we get it on recording.

What's the best way for people to hear some of your music right now?

Yeah, my website is great.

Jennalanmusic.com so that's a great place.

I have links to YouTube and different things like that, but you can find them.

Yeah, super beautiful.

So yeah.

Jen Allen, thank you so much for coming on again.

It was such a pleasure to have you.

Loved hearing your story and loved listening to your music and that's it.

Hope you, you know.

Oh, actually I'm sorry.

And we'll have you back on.

We'll have you back on, you know, when you're ready, you know, and when we're ready, you know, next week, when your next album comes out or if you have something important to promote, just don't hesitate to reach out to us.

But we'll put you on like a follow up schedule as well.

Amazing.

Thank you so much.

Thanks for having me.

Thank you, Jen.

All right, bye.