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And now let's get into our recent conversation with Jovanni Garcia.
Jovanni's YouTube channel, Salt and Pepper Pickleball, offers equipment reviews focused
on pickleball paddles.
We talk about the industry.
He offers some advice for beginner players and shares his vision for the future.
Have a listen and let us know what you think.
Jovanni Garcia, we appreciate you making time to talk to us on the GoTennis Podcast.
I will start with our most obvious question, which is Jovanni, who are you and why
do we care?
Well, thank you guys for having me.
I really appreciate being here and being able to talk to you guys.
Well, my name is Jovanni.
I'm an ex-Tennis player, rec tennis player, who found the game with pickleball and just
fell in love with the competition and the connection that it made.
I play, of course, recreationally, but I do also play an tournament here and there for
pickleball.
And I'm always synchering with my gear.
And I started paying attention to paddles, the way they felt.
And then the performance, because I love how just a racket or a paddle can change your
entire game.
And I just really enjoy learning and sharing with the community, which is what I love about
the pickleball community.
You know, like we're all willing to learn and share with one another.
All right.
So, and you're a player, but you're also kind of a techie.
So you're into the equipment.
And so that's a little bit of why you're here, which is what are you working on in the
industry?
And just a player now, you're an expert in equipment, right?
Yes.
Well, I'm trying to be an expert in the equipment side.
There's still so much to learn within the new paddle technology that's coming out every
day.
I mean, it's just something new to learn, you know, because you go from like, honeycomb
cores, plastic, different sizes, different shapes that do different things for the paddle.
You know, they open up the sweets, but they shrink it.
They make it harder, softer, increased dwell time, decreased dwell time.
And then all of a sudden boom, full phone came in into play.
And then you had to like really dive into soft foam versus medium stiffness foam and then
like hard foams that have an array of complications within themselves.
So you know, because if you put a little bit here, a little bit there, it makes it off
center and creates more power on one end compared to the other.
And it's just, yeah, I love that stuff.
And you were doing that for tennis rackets before you switched over to pickleball?
Yes, yes, I was.
I had always wanted to kind of start a review channel for tennis rackets.
But I mean, it just got to the point where there was just new rackets coming out so often
that even I couldn't keep up.
And I really did love playing with them, adding weight here and there to see what was better,
depending on the stiffness of the racket, how I thought in my arm, because I actually tore
some ligaments that connect my clavicle to my shoulder.
So I'm actually pretty sensitive to tennis rackets and the stiffness and the string.
Same thing with pickleball paddles, like depending on how much vibration is actually coming
through the handle, my wrist could hurt, my elbow could hurt, my shoulder could hurt.
It's just, you know, tinkering with the paddles so much, now I know where to put certain
things.
And I was able to help like some people down at my local pit wall courts.
I was able to say, hey, well, put a little bit of lead here or put a little bit of tungsten
on this side, whatever, you know, whatever you like.
Because then there's that whole debate about tungsten and lead and health and this and that.
So the tungsten and lead debate, honeycomb versus foam core pickleball paddle techno.
And that's the technology.
Bobby, do you have any idea what he's talking about?
A lot of this stuff for you.
You've talked about the pain in the very, I just thought he was getting a hold.
Oh, there's that.
I have all those issues every day.
So I was like, okay, it's no big deal here.
Well, and that's the getting old part that we understand.
But it's the expert and we've talked to experts previously.
We have a racket tech part of our little extension of our inner circle who can personalize
racket technology for you and say, hey, this helps your game.
But there also is, like you said, Giovanni, the injury side, the injury prevention side.
This just feels good or that feels good.
And Bobby and Bobby and I are, you know, tennis first, Bobby probably preferred to be tennis
only.
But I know he outsources a lot of the pickleball stuff on that side, but it's really interesting
to those of us in the racket sports world because we say, well, we know how tennis racket
personalization works.
We may not be experts at it, but we get, you know, put weight here.
This makes it a little heavier there and does this and does that.
But pickleball paddles are very different than tennis rackets.
But the sweet spot works similarly, meaning the weights still change.
You have the head sizes.
That's all still similar, correct?
Yes, that is very, very much similar.
And just like in a tennis racket, you put weight on the four corners and you open up the
sweet spot.
Same thing in a pickleball paddle.
It's pretty much the same principle.
So and then you have this thing wants it needs as a tennis racket.
Oh, I like head heavy.
Oh, I like, you know, head light.
I like even balance.
It's pretty much the same kind of tinkering.
That's for with a paddle.
It's just shorter than a tennis racket.
So you may, you might not need as much weight and you might want to like pull down the weight
from one side, you know, a little bit further and things like that.
So, you got it.
And there's no restring it.
So Bobby and I can, we can completely change the feel of a tennis racket.
You can make it extremely different based on what you put in the middle of it.
But with a paddle, you're kind of, the middle is the main bit, right?
Pretty much.
You're stuck with what you got.
So you better enjoy it.
Exactly.
So, but then again, you can always, you can always choose like a, like I said, you can add a
little bit of a, let's say you're in there and it does change the feel that you're getting
off the paddle.
So I mean, it's not a tennis racket, but it's close.
Gotcha.
So Bobby, you got any burning questions about the equipment world of pickleball?
Well, like just a curiosity.
I've heard that like the shelf life of a good pickleball racket in the hands of a good pickleball
player is a year that they can break.
Is that, is there any truth in it?
Oh, I mean, yes, there is.
Yes, there is.
I know a guy at my court.
And I mean, he smacks those balls.
I mean, he's hitting it at 120 percent and he can snap the handle right off, which he
has done.
And he's only had the paddle maybe a month, two months, three months sometimes.
So the goal and good thing is that they have really good warrant.
Yeah, because I'm the shooter's player who warranty, right?
Yeah, I mean, it's amazing.
I mean, I'd up tennis player who was amazing and he literally had the ability to generate
enough force with his hand that he could break the just a stress plate in the float.
And then I heard that I was like, well, you'd make sense.
It's important to see if people are swinging that hard, but it changes the dynamic of the game.
And Sean said, we complain about having to restrain, you know, there's a $40 expense, but there's a,
a new racket expense every six or seven months that could get it to be a pricey sport.
Yeah, it can.
It can like in the beginning when I first started pickleballs, like, oh, this is cheap.
I can go on Amazon, get it Amazon paddle for $20 and then just go start playing.
I already had shorts and clothes and, you know, to get a ball is what 10 bucks for a pack
of three, you know, so, you know, I thought it was going to be cheap.
But then all of a sudden I started playing and I was like, hey, I want to get better.
And then I'm like, oh, you mean that I have to pay 200 plus?
Oh, okay.
Let me see what I can find for 100.
So that's how I got to go into all the different types of paddles because I was like, well,
okay, so I can't really afford the $300 paddle.
Let me see what I can find at my price range.
Yeah, exactly.
We'll tell us and you're doing a lot of reviews now.
So tell us about your YouTube channel.
Yeah.
So my channel focuses on like fun, friendly and honest paddle reviews.
When I started getting into pickleball, I pretty much realized that there were a ton of new
paddles and a lot of marketing height, but not much feedback from like everyday players.
So I didn't find a lot of like rent, you know, people who were rec status that were talking
about their paddles and whatnot.
A lot of it was, hey, check out this $330 paddle.
It'll do everything for you, you know?
And I was just like, well, I'm not in that, you know, I can't afford that price range.
So what can I find that works for me?
So then I started looking into smaller companies like Keyley Labs, which I'm, I mean, who's
ever heard of them, but they make quality adults.
You know what I mean?
And the guy's out of Michigan.
He R&D's all his own stuff.
He takes his time with his R&D and he puts a lot of, a lot of passion into what he does.
And I've, I've gotten you in four of his paddles and I love every single one of them.
And guess what?
The most expensive one was a hundred and ten out there on the court, beating people with
two, three, three, fifty, you know, who spent that much on their paddles.
So that encouraged me to want to start the channel and then just try to create more of a fun,
friendly type of review style as well.
You say that and I, it makes me wonder, are there really boring dishonest reviews?
Like, is that a thing?
You have to, you have to differentiate yourself by saying this is an honest review or you're
saying you're unpaid and you're in the market for a sponsor for some paid dishonesty.
What's going on there?
Hey, doing this for fun.
Bobby, I, Bobby, I spent plenty of time reviewing and doing plenty of content realizing that
the only reason to lie about something is if you're getting paid to lie about it.
Otherwise, I would hope, I would hope it's all an honest review.
Exactly.
And that's why in the beginning, all my reviews, everyone that I did, I would always reach
out to like an ambassador or somebody who promotes, like somebody local that promotes
that particular brand.
And I would say, hey, what's your discount code so I can throw it on my thing so that way
you can make some money from people possibly wanting to get that paddle.
So like I really am trying to be as honest as I can about my both my feedback and helping
out others who are actually trying to make a career out of selling paddles or being in
the pickable industry.
Well, Bobby, let's make sure we get in all our discount codes because it sounds like
he's just giving away money at this point.
Well, I'm curious about one thing with the gentleman in Michigan.
Does he manufacture in the States?
Actually, no, he does not.
He does get his stuff from I believe China.
So I was going to say with tennis, it's, you know, everybody talks about, well, there's
four probably four places that manufacture tennis racket.
So you're going to get some incestuousness, if that's a word, in your tennis rackets.
You know, they're getting made in the same places and they're all being made with the same
stuff.
So like Sean said, route to dramatically say one is better than the other.
They're all pretty similar.
You know, there's these weights and stuff like that, obviously, but they're similar.
The other question real quick.
So I feel like, well, you know, with the tennis player, I'll sit there and say, look, I want
you to swing at least 10.4, 10.6 ounces.
Heavy of the better.
Is there a start or pick up all player, like I said, Sean said, I work at a place that does
it off or pick up all.
I have people that do it, but if they ask me the question, I have no idea.
Is there a way that you sit there and say, this is where my starting off point is obviously
it's going to be dictated by how much you want to spend, but these are some good specs
to look into.
So the question has what's a good weight?
I mean, what would you tell somebody weights?
Obviously, I know that they're getting different handles.
The actual strike zone is changing.
There's a lot going on with pick up all adults from where they started.
Would you tell somebody, hey, this is a good entry spot.
If I would like, for example, if I was talking to somebody coming from tennis, I would say,
hey, you'd learn to get them elongated paddle, which is 16 1/2 inches long, and you're going
to want them with at least be seven to seven inches, or I'm sorry, seven 1/2 inches to about
seven six.
Then, depending on what their style of tennis racket is, like they say they like it had
heavy, well, then I'd be like, okay, well, this brand has a heavy elongated paddle, then
I'd say, hey, you're tennis racket.
Are you swinging 12 ounces?
Are you doing 11 3?
Are you doing 11 5?
Are you doing 10 ounces?
Are you just crazy in doing 9.5?
You know?
Because I know some people like that extra, extra light feeling, and then their tension is
that like what, 25s, just so they don't have to swing hard, and they got to bazook them
with strings.
So it's kind of like that, the same thing.
But as a general paddle for somebody coming from tennis, I would recommend 16 1/2 inches,
seven 1/2 inches wide.
And then, if they have a chewy, or they use a two handed backhand, I would recommend something
that, where the handle length is 5 1/2 to 6 inches long.
So that way you could sit both those hands on there when you're doing your backhand.
So swing weight, I mean, you can always bump it up if you want, but generally they're all
around 110 to 114.
And then you're going to find that like the twist weight is going to be kind of in the
5.5 range, two possibly six.
So I mean, you're going to have some give and take there, but generally elongated, and then
I would recommend a 5 1/2 to a six inch handle for somebody coming from tennis.
Now it would kind of keep, and typically the weight of a 16 1/2 inch paddle is going to be
around 8 to 8 1, or to 8 ounces to 8.1 ounces.
So Bobby, I like that idea of transitioning in and saying, okay, what are you used to from
your tennis world?
And we'll get you into that from a pickleball perspective, get you playing a little bit, and
then decide, okay, well, I'm going to make my adjustments as a pickleball player.
Now that I am one, because I've been playing pickleball for 30 minutes, so clearly now I'm
a pickleball player.
And I can then adjust from there, but I like that idea.
What do you use to from tennis?
Let's get as close to as we can to that concept, get you in, then we'll get you into something
else.
Now we've just sold two records to the beginner, even better.
Exactly.
But somebody who's not like tennis based, I would always recommend like a wide body paddle.
That's my next question.
What about somebody who has coming from, I don't play ragged sports, you just got your
neighbor, come on out here.
Here's a paddle, whack the ball with it.
The hand them like, is there a beginner paddle or is there just a beginner price point?
I would say there's a beginner price point, because I mean, let's say, so if there are budgets
100 bucks, I mean, there's like 50 to 60 paddles that they could choose from.
All of them are really good, but typically I would recommend a wide body paddle just because
it has a high twist weight, so it's not going to rotate in their hands.
They probably don't even know what a tool is.
So the handle is going to be five to five and a half inches.
So they're going to play one hand everything.
The paddle is going to be nice and wide.
It's going to be a little bit shorter.
So you're elongated at 16.5.
Then your wide bodies are going to be 16 and below.
So basically like 16 to like 15.6, somewhere in there.
That's where you're going to find a wide body.
It's just going to help them because you're getting so much surface area.
It's like an oversized racket.
Somebody who's not going to find a sweet spot all the time, somebody who's going to swing
probably a little bit slower, not have those fundamentals, not have those mechanics.
Then boom, you give them that nice oversized racket, tighten up the strings just a little
bit, and hey, they're good to go.
Sounds like Bobby's every Tuesday.
So, I'm going to ask you a little bit about the way you're doing it.
I'm going to ask you a little bit about the way you're doing it.
Chin hair is the basis for the name.
Yes, my wife's always like, "I love your salt and pepper.
I love your salt and pepper."
I was like, "Salt and pepper, pick a ball."
There we go.
Because before that, it was going to be like tropical pickleball channel or something like that.
And then I heard salt and pepper.
I was like, "Yeah, there we go."
That's it.
That's good.
All right.
Well, we need to move to the next thing.
Bobby, what you got anything else for Giovanni before I hit him with King of Pickleball?
All right.
So Giovanni, I sent you this ahead of time.
Hopefully you put some thought into this and we asked this at the end of almost all of our conversations.
But we would like to know if you were King of Pickleball.
So this means whether it's social pickleball, just Atlanta, where we're based or the whole world or professional.
Any scale you can picture, any scope, if you were King of Pickleball, is there anything you would do or change?
And if I were King of Pickball, I'd love to see more transparency and consistency around like equipment, such as like swing weight balance and specs that matter a lot to players.
And then I'd love to see on the further community side.
I'd like to see more courts coming out, but they're all more courts.
So that's always the benefit.
And then just better etiquette with conversations between players on the court.
And just more people having fun without feeling intimidated, walking onto a court and everybody just wants to play.
Let's clickiness, I guess, if I could do something, that would be one thing.
But I just want the story to stay competitive.
I just like the maintain the social vibe that makes Pickleball special.
So I think that's what I'd do if I was King of Pickleball.
I love it.
All right, well, Giovanni Garcia of Salt and Pepper Pickleball.
You can find them on YouTube, you can find them on Instagram.
Thank you so much for making the time. I really appreciate it.
Bobby is always. Thanks for being here.
Gentlemen, thank you so much.
Thank you.
Well, there you have it.
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