Hi, I'm Nina Anderson i manaton Welcome to how to be human, a podcast that explores the common and often confusing themes of humaneness

on this episode Anna and I discuss the hope and purpose. Take a seat clear

mind and let's chat

Hello, hello.

Hello. Monday, Monday.

Yeah, it's Monday and it's sweaty, but it's fine. It's lovely, sunny. Beautiful. I'm here.

We're doing it. It's happening. It's been real gloomy today here, but it is a bit cooler. Oh, really nice. Yeah, it's row. It's been a little bit of a storm tease all day.

It's so weird. It's bright and sunny. Really?

Crazy. We're not that far apart. And yet, so far, so far, different weather systems.

So has this topic been on your mind for a while, like me?

It has been actually Well, part of it has. So today we're talking about hope and purpose. Hope. I think I have a more complicated relationship with maybe I don't I don't know, purpose, though. Like something this podcast is, like really illuminated for me, is I am in the minority about things that I'm like, oh, yeah, I'm real clear and set on that. And everyone else is like, I have so many questions, you know, like, so purpose is something I find. I don't think it's easy to find your purpose, or how to live your purpose. And we'll get all into that. But I don't find purpose that big or mystifying a topic and yet, that's probably why I attract tons of clients that want to dig into what is their purpose, you know? So I'm curious to hear, obviously, your your take on it. Should I give us some definition? So we can just get going? Yeah, just define

this. And

let's roll. Yeah, so hope we have it's a noun, a feeling of expectation and desire for a certain thing to happen. Archaic, a feeling of trust, which is interesting. Verb wants something to happen or be the case. He's hoping for an offer of compensation purpose. And that was from cite your sources, that was Oxford languages, Oxford languages for purpose, which of course, I want to keep seeing porpoise, Sam. And I kept misspelling it. And sometimes I hope when I'm doing the dumbest shit related to our work, that you just feel a little tingle, and you're like, Anna's being dumb, then I can feel it. Because I was like, kept misspelling, and was like, going for this purpose for losing my mind. And I was like, I hope somewhere in upstate New York, it was like, she's put up a thing. So purpose, it's a noun, the reason for which something is done or created, or for which something exists, verb formal have as one's intention or objective. Hmm. I mean, I don't know about you. But I find so often these words that, you know, come up a lot. It's like you read their, their definitions, and you're like, you're not so sexy. after all.

I don't know that I've found. Well, maybe maybe I've been surprised by a few of them. But I always I always feel it's important to know them. Yeah. And I often feel bored by them.

Yeah, I mean, they are. I think it's important, like part of the whole reason I really like to do them, even though I don't think they're the most exciting part is I think it's important for us all to know where we're starting from, especially now that I feel like with social, especially, especially with social media, like we're just so inundated by talking all the time, you know, that I've been surprised by how many of these words I didn't actually know how it was defined, versus how it's discussed, or we or we sort of define it culturally, you know, so that's been sort of interesting to me that I think that it's nice for us to have a place to start but ya know, it's never the most scintillating part of Italy. It's not what gets you know, the ratings but I know but

it's, it's it's important. Yeah, grounded rooted in something that and also just, you know, information is, is important, and not just our definition of it. But, you know, whoever wrote Merriam Webster, I guess Merriam Webster, who writes, wonder who writes the definitions, though? That's a whole process. How do they come up with them?

I find that I guess that's semiotics, which is, you know, like the study of languages and things like that. I when I was a little kid, and in because I went to school in England, I took Latin and stuff. So I did like, shockingly good on the SATs, all because of like, semiotic. I could figure out like, what words meant and do stuff just because of like, Latin and things like, yeah, like, I didn't know shit. But like, just literally because I was more familiar with like, how words had been formed from ancient languages that's like, Whoa, that relates to them. And that means invest.

As long as you are. Yeah, so what, as far as purpose, you get a lot, we talk a lot about purpose. We talk a lot about hope to but we talk a lot about purpose in terms of clients. I feel like more than I think you and I are similar, where we don't feel any way intimidated by it or confused by that

concept, right? No, yeah.

I don't know if I clients come to you and say it. Do. They say what? What is my purpose? Yep.

I mean, like, yeah, I would say and I wanted to, I wanted to read something. And it's funny, because, yeah, tons tons tons to I would say, hmm. 60% of my Akashic records, clients, I would say are purpose driven. I would say, wow, yeah. I'm gonna 60s Maybe high. No, I'm gonna stand by I'm gonna back at 60%, I would say, is purpose. Like, because I also too, I went through it. Because when you schedule with me, there's a note section. And I went back and I looked, and I was like, No, I'm not making it up, like purpose, literally, purpose, purpose, using that word, specifically. And I always come back to a quote from Sonya, Renee Taylor, who wrote the body is not an apology, the power of radical self love. This book is incredible. I fully recommend it to everybody. It's it, I read it in terms of body image, but like, what's really incredible is she's just sort of like, you can't approach self love, like in isolation. Uh, you know, you can't approach it just for your body. Like, you have to approach these things from a much more like, radical perspective. And in she, cuz she talks about everything that's sort of like housed in that, like, if you if you think you're in a body unworthy of things, like how in the world would you find your purpose? You know, like, she really lays things out, and I could, I hope I'm not misgendering Sonia, I believe she uses she her pronouns. But in the book, she has this quote, and that's funny, because I didn't I forgot it. It started with Marianne Williamson, who you and I are both not super fans of but I stand by this. I'm shocked that her book starts with that. Well, yeah, this isn't a book she goes, I recently listened to famed author and spiritual teacher Marianne Williamson share a talk on relationships. And she described the principle of natural intelligence, she posited an acorn does not have to say I intend to become an oak tree. natural intelligence intends that every living thing become the highest form of itself and design this accordingly. And a single sentence all in me that feels nameless was named, we have a dictionary full of terms describing our interpretation of natural intelligence. We sometimes call it purpose, other times destiny. Although I agree with the spirit of those terms. I believe they fail to encapsulate the fullness of what Marion Williams and acorn example illustrates. Both purpose and destiny allude to a place we might with enough effort, someday arrive, we believer ourselves with all the things we must do, to fulfill our purpose or live out our destiny, contrary to purpose, natural intelligence does not require we do anything to achieve it. natural intelligence imbues us with all we need, at this exact moment to manifest the highest form of ourselves. And we don't have to figure out how to how to get it. Then she goes on talks about survival, important stuff, but I just don't want to read this to us all day. But then I want to get to the real important part of why Sonia is better than Marianne even though I don't want to make women compete against each other because she gives us this gem of the work is to crumble the barriers of injustice and shame leveled against us, so that we might access what we have always been, because we will, if unobstructed, inevitably grow into the purpose for which we were created our own unique version of that oak tree. And when I read that years ago, I forget when this book came out, but I don't know, like, 2019 2018, you know, around there. Yeah, the before times 2018. I was like, whoa, whoa, it was a felt like, it means so much sense to me, you know, and it made so much sense to me to about how I think most of us go about seeking purpose backwards, you know, that we all think we have to be like, good enough for our purpose, rather than just accepting our purposes, is neutral. You know, like, we just have to get out of our own way more so than we have to go out and search and find it, you know. So I also come into this knowing I had had a very clear thing, like, like I said, I already felt that way. But then when I read her articulation, I was like, That's exactly how I feel like so much of how we figure out who we're really meant to be, what work we're really meant to be doing in this world, is removing all of the things that make us doubt that, you know, like,

and I've kind of always felt that way, but she gave language to it. And I'm curious, because it was just so clear. For me. I'm curious, like, how do you define your purpose? And have you always felt clear on it?

Okay, first of all, I think so many of us are looking for, are looking for it, right? There's this energy of like, have to find it, it's somehow lost, it's somehow under something, it's behind something. It's underneath something, whatever. Yeah, it's not, it's not this external thing that I think a lot of, you know, spiritual teachers or whatever, whoever many people have profited off of people trying to find and there's nothing wrong with learning and growing and seeking out guidance. Obviously, I'm a big believer in that. However, nobody has the answer, I've always known and will always believe that nobody has the answer for you about your purpose. So while you might be able to illuminate something for someone via the records, or you and I through Taro, or whatever, or therapists or whoever that person has to feel connected, and then accept whatever they believe their purpose is or per se purposes. purposes. Poor by it's the butterfly. So I've always believed that it is that it comes from within, right and that you don't have to earn it. And that you don't have to find it. However, it was very hard for me to feel the the expansiveness of it until like my late 20s, because I thought it was very much. I was very confused about it. And also didn't think I really had a, I didn't feel I had a lot of purpose when I was younger. But when I was connecting with people, and when I was holding space for people, it's just weird, you know, looking back hindsight, obviously, is knowing that in those moments, I felt really myself and clear and aware of my, my, my purpose, but I didn't have the language for it. And I didn't really know how to own it until later, you know, and it's not just work related, which I think a lot of people believe that it is, and we've been taught that it is

right. I don't Yeah, I don't think you're I don't I think your work can be related to your purpose. Like I think work can be involved, but I don't think that it's it, you know, like, I don't, I don't I don't think whenever human beings were being created, I don't think it was like, and yes, we will give them a deep need for purpose and it will be called work. You know, like, I don't think that's how that was No, I think purpose is so much more about what drives us and like we feel gives life meaning in my opinion, you know, yeah, that can be work, but or I think we tend to find work that that has overlapping with our pitfall Yeah, or like there's Go ahead. I was gonna say like, I mean, you and I, like, obviously like to help people like we would. So totally our work would probably have some aspect of that. But like, do I think if you're like, Oh, I like helping people. So my purpose is like be a caretaker like, No, I don't think it works like that, you know, and I don't want to do that. I don't think anyone outside of ourselves, because it's like, funny sometimes so many people. And I get it like, listen, Nina and I get readings, like we're not, we're not being like, silly client coming about purpose, like, seekers were more just like saying, like, we're with you in that frustration of when we're seeking answers that can't come from outside of ourselves. And that, like what I'll offer clients sometimes when, you know, because the records will be like, these are like, you know, if I was like reading for Nina, they would in she was like, What's my purpose, they would be like, think about this, think about the way you feel when you're doing this kind of work or whatever. But like, and clients can get a little frustrated, because they literally thought it was going to like serve up, like, like a job title, in my opinion. And I'm like, it just doesn't work that way, like, nobody's purpose is to be a marketing executive, you know, like, it might be that your purpose is to be a communicator, or to bring ideas to people like how you want to express that or how that feels good to you. You get a complete agency and a say and you know, but I try to offer clients sometimes when I can feel like they can I can tell they're frustrated, or they're not getting the answers they want. And I'm like, Hey, have you ever talked to your parents about your career? And they're like, yeah, it's the worst. I'm like, for sure. I was like, and you know, when they keep naming things like, Hey, you're really good at this, like, you should make toothpaste. And you're like, I did that. When I was seven. I don't want to make toothpaste, Mom, you know, like, we could sit here and the records could name a ton of stuff off. But to like Nina's earlier point, if you don't feel that inside, it doesn't matter. If you don't connect to it, and it doesn't, you don't feel the energy there. It kind of doesn't matter what anyone tells you in that regard.

No. And also, there's an article which is like so the opposite of what I would think I would cling to but or look to, but from the Harvard Business Review.

Know, what's your favorite?

No, I just read it religiously. Because Tom and Bob and all my gotta know what all the harbor harbor deeds are up to. I thought it was interesting, because I, you know, I was like searching through a bunch of stuff. And it obviously has like a very career oriented view. But I liked that. One of the misconceptions they write about his purposes is misconception. That purpose is a single thing. Ooh. Yes. So thank you, Harvard. Not it's not a single thing. Yeah. Also, one of the people that came to mind is Tricia Hershey. Is that Wait, hang on, is that her name? Trisha. Hirsi the. She founded that ministry? Hmm. So if Trisha, I'm just, you know, I don't know, Trish, but I don't know that she likes to be called that. But if you're, if you found it something, right, that's about rest as resistance, obviously, there's a huge, you know, there's a lot of context there with where she comes from her lineage and everything like that. However, my point is, in bringing this up is if you are really living in an aligned way, and you feel like it's all possible, and you allow yourself to feel like it's all possible things click into place that again, could be related to work could be related to anything that you that if anyone, you know, just talking conversation 1020 years ago was like, the nap ministry, that's gonna be a thing, right? Yeah, it's not it's not this idea or concept. That's, that's common by any stretch, but it is something that this is part of her purpose. Right? Yeah. For purpose is to encourage people to rest. Yeah, that's big shit. If you can really allow yourself to be called to it, right? Yeah. And to accept the call and to answer the call, whatever the call may be. And it's not just one call and it's not just gonna ring once and then you're gonna like be screwed. It kind of goes back to two, two. I don't personally believe you can miss your destiny. Right. I don't think you can. I think you can totally self sabotage. I think you can choose choose against it over and over and over again and then wonder what you know, could have been but I think if you are trying to live a mindful life. It's Some kind and dismantle a lot of what is stacked up against you. And that obviously is different depending on so many factors that you will be led, and to where you are meant to go. And love and career friendship in all of it.

I wonder if it's sometimes with purpose is Well, I agree, I agree with you. It's not always one thing. And I wonder if we look at people, like Trisha, and we go, Oh, is that how it's supposed to be? Like, am I supposed to be so clear on one area, topic, genre, whatever you want to call it? You know, and I would say, I think that's rare. You know, very, I think also to that, if you like, people used to say to me about my career, like, whoa, television to Taro, like, that's crazy. Like, they're so different. To me as the purpose of the person inside, it didn't feel that different to me, it felt like, you know, giving language to things, it felt like problem solving it like wasn't that different to me? No, in terms of I don't think so. Yeah, like my skill set and how it felt. And so I would offer that to people too, that like, you may find that it's like this, like wheelhouse you're in, you know, like, there. That's what I think of it almost as like a word cloud to help me. Or when I'm like, oh, like work is feeling a little stagnant, like, what do I want to do? Or what would feel good because for me, like, I my work does need to be purposeful, you know, like, I need a balance of kind of, like admin mindless tasks, so I can like, zone out and listen to my stories. And then I need a lot of like, kind of purposeful, driven work for me, that's when I feel like my best self, you know, but I've opened up to what that looks like, you know, because I'm like, the only thing that matters, really, to me, is me and how I feel. Not really but like, so I'm like, even if someone else doesn't really get it or is like, that doesn't matter. I'm like, I know that this is related. Or to me, or I define this, as related to this, you know, but I think it can be helpful sometimes, like, if you really feel like, you don't know what your purpose is, or you You've no idea where to begin or to start looking. I think it can, like literally just write down the stuff you enjoy, like literally write down, what is it feel good to, like, offer the world? Where does it feel good for the world to like, see you if you're like, Oh, I feel amazing. When I'm helping people, you know, like, okay, then that might be it. And it may not have to be your work, but you're like, I need to bring more consciousness to that. But like, I feel really good when I'm helping people or like, I really love art, you know, like, art is the thing. It's like, cool, you know, and I don't know if it was for me, like, I went to a really, I went to Parsons, which is a really, you know, rigorous art school. And I knew, almost immediately that I didn't want to be a professional photographer, I was like, oh, fuck, I'm going to this really expensive art school and Oh, come on, do this, you know, but I knew the education was valuable. And I knew I would figure it out, you know, because it, I was like, photography is something I do for myself, it's not what I want to do for work. And that was like, honestly, really valuable worth, you know, worth the first year of my, you know, freshman year, because it also it made me start separating some of that stuff out of what drives me as an individual. What drives me as an individual that I also want to make money doing, you know, and separating that stuff out. And if you rather than looking out to the world and going like what could I fit myself into to Nina's point of the openness and like the things will show up, but like the call will come? I think if you ask more like well, what do I even like doing what feels good? What feels like? Because I think so much of really being in your purpose is like giving yourself permission to do it. And like I think the nap ministry is such a good example. Because like if that were you and I I know exactly the conversation we would be having where I would be like not ministry, but also maybe a disco prior. So we're worn out for the nap and you would be like, No, our point is that we encourage rest and I'd be like, right but like it's rest enough it would be so uncomfortable for me to trust that that was enough, you know, and then inevitably you and I would also get bored and be like okay, pressed but what else you know

Breast, breast and totally and to your point, it is very rare that I think something that niche like and specific clicks in for somebody, but I also want to bring in children to this purpose station. Because I often ask people who, you know, are not sure if they want kids or they're just kind of, you know, sinking, or they're already parents, but they're not. They weren't, you know. So incredibly ready or calm, confident, to become parents. I was having a conversation with a client, a former client, and she wants and she said, how she was wondering why her kids don't, you know, get more of an emotional education at school. And I was like, that's your job.

I mean, I'm with her and I'm with you.

I wish that we had more as far as when they go and where they go and how they go. But it's, it's, it's yours. That's yours. That's, I want to pass the baton back. And my mother, she was like, Oh, shit, you're right. And if you are someone and this is absolutely no shame, right? Yes. If you are someone who doesn't, or who finds it hard to find purpose in your parenting, it has a lot to do. I've found when you know, when that does happen, what I see often is it's a confidence issue in what they have to offer or what they feel like they don't have to offer. And I feel purposeful being like the most purposeful when I'm clicked in, connected with my kid, right? Like, I know exactly where I'm supposed to be in. And not that I know what to say all the time. But I've know we're gonna figure it out. And a lot of times, that's not it might not come naturally to people. And that's okay. Because the purpose is to learn the purpose is to love the purpose is to grow alongside your child, not in a weird like, codependent way. But you don't have to know everything to create to create a loving, stable, amazing environment for your child, and they chose you for a reason, I believe they chose you for a reason. You

said something really important. You don't have to know everything. And I think about anything you feel really drawn towards, if that's children, a person or whatever, like, you don't have to know everything in order to wait in and start investigating. Because I think something that's really important that you touched on is that I do think we figure out a lot more about our purpose with action than thinking.

Oh, yeah, like, Oh, my God, do it. 9%

Right. Yeah, I didn't know.

That's why I love taro and movement. So much. I know it's work focus, but elevates everything in my life. Because I'm constantly learning I was really losing some hope. Last week, I felt pretty hopeless. Just about I felt more uninspired, probably. And when I like to feel inspired, and I like to feel inspired a lot. And maybe it's selfish. And maybe it's, you know, not realistic to think that I'm going to be lit up all the time, which it's not. And it's not necessary, either. But, and that's part of my other ship where it's like, I feel like I have to constantly be working for it, which I don't, which I have to remind myself of. But in any case, I was feeling a little hopeless. And I decided to pull some cards for myself, which I haven't done in a long time. And I sat down and Milo's doing something next to me. And he was reading some cards, some of my cards and I, one of the cards that I pulled was the two of Pentacles upside down. And I read that a lot is like I'm over extended and I need to reprioritize and I'm and I'm spread a little too thin. And

what were you laughing because I call that the mom card. It comes out total if I'm reading for mom, it will absolutely come up. All right, almost every single time. Yeah.

And what I had been doing right before was trying to figure out like, like, we're we're doing so much with how to be human and trying to, you know, put out and putting all this effort into the membership and also figuring out, you know, a lot of stuff here on the podcast, and I was teaching in person and then I decided to like maybe switch studios. Then I'm going to do a training, a Pilates training and then I'm reading from my clients and I'm like you I think what's happening here is you're scared to have quiet time. And you're scared to have this empty canvas or at He's a part of an empty canvas. And that's when magic happens for you. And I know that and I also know that that's a huge part of the creative process. And it's also a huge part of growth, but I resist it so much. And it really reframed and called me my ass out which I needed, which was like, You can't do it all. And you're not meant to it, you're not, I didn't, I don't think I was actually hopeless. I think I was just really overextended and not able to be clear with myself about what I actually wanted to be purposeful about and what I actually wanted to be engaging with. As opposed to what I felt like I needed to force and because a lot of times, I'm like, Okay, I have this, I have this, I have this. So I never want to rely on one thing, or just do one thing, because I'll be bored, or it's not a smart, business wise, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, but I send myself into this tailspin. And instead, I've pulled back and been like, you have a light week, this week, you had a really, like heavy one last week, let's enjoy it, let's enjoy it and let the space just be and see what comes alive.

It's really difficult, I think, to feel out of sync with your desire, you know, like, is suck, but when you're like, I want to be creating all these things I want, like, you know, we take what we do seriously. And I think we try to like, you know, not be creeps about it, but we do you know, and it sucks when you're like, I want to do stuff or I want to you know, like, like wanting it isn't like I was gonna say like wanting it isn't bad enough. But it's like that is like, not an indication of the work you're doing or like, where you're at in your life sometimes, you know, like, it can just be so frustrating. Like, I can relate in the sense of I've had all this like health stuff. And it's frustrating when you're like, I want to feel good and be out and going to the beach. But like, my BOD is like, hi, we have a different plan for you. You know, there's nothing worse than that. But I do think because we haven't really talked about hope like that. It's like, you know, all these things. It's like, it's all fine and well, until you have to like use your skills and like you.

Literally, I know that when I oh my god, I said that when I did the star card this week, I was like, super easy to click to connect with this when you're like, everything's going my way. But when when you actually need the hope and the faith is when things maybe aren't or you're or you're just don't know which way you're going. Right. I don't know why I keep saying click them. But that's I think, because that's what my body feels like when Yeah, thing when I just feel like whoa, I just really snapped out of something and into something else. And I think that's what we're all looking for. To some degree is that is the connection to hope and feeling like someone has has you or something has you in mind. Right? Yeah, not just floating around with no purpose.

Yeah, I find it really interesting too, that the times that we tend to need our hope the most. It also feels the first areas Yeah, are like the most like threatening, you know, like, I had, like a couple surgeries like, you know, and for the most part, I've been like very not concerned. And then it's like in the moment when you're nude and in your gown. And before they give you the good shit. So you're not nervous. And I'm like, Oh my God. It's me. Anna. Been a mile. I'm having surgery again. So good to meet you.

34:14

And Anna, it's an a nn

two ends to it. Tom. I know there should only be one. Oh,

yeah, Tom. Yeah, no, it's probably been about 10 years. Sure.

Yeah. And I'm like, woof, woof. No, and I think something that's tough for me about hope is I've been really looking at my own relationship with truth and I can get like, I can make myself really crazy about like, what is the truth and I need to figure out the truth of the situation and not accepting that like, really the only truth we can ever know is our own, you know, like, yeah, I just will not accept that. And hope can feel like delusion to me, and hopefully yours Super hopeful person and you're also I think a very optimistic person. And wait, did you just say to me Yeah, I think you're an optimistic person. Because really you're grumble, grumble. optim. Yeah, cuz you're grumble, grumble. Phosphorus is more of them like mood. I'm like,

Thank you. Thanks for seeing me.

I'm like, nicey Oh, Am I alright, and then a mode. Yeah, it's more of a you know, it's when you're being, you know, like, you know, snarly. I mean, Larry, you're gonna save for verrucous all. I'm like, I'm not afraid I'll stick my hand through the cage. And like, when, you know,

you always start things like, is it?

So, I like it a when we first started working together, sometimes when things you were like, you would be so hopeful, you know? And I would be like, Well, I don't know. Or like, let's see. And you're like, I'm gonna have hope. And I was like, Huh. Us? Those little rascal. Like, no, I remember. I remember several times when you were like, I am going to hope like, that doesn't happen, or I'm going to hope that they surprise us or something like that. And I would say, like, I don't know, you had a pretty good, like, track record, like, Yeah, I mean, maybe 5050. Obviously, it's like nothing to do with you. You weren't controlling these people's actions, you know. But like, it was really interesting to me. Like, what a different way to go through a situation. Like when you don't have control, you know, like, rather than me like, I'm like, Okay, well, like, let's go ahead and like, I'm like, let's go ahead and plan, you know, plan B, for when this person disappoints us. And you're like, I'm not ready to inhabit that space yet. I'm gonna hope that they don't disappoint us. And I'm, like, radical, but they will. But they will, you know, and they beat me also really see that, how sure I was that people were always going to let us down, you know, or let me down, you know. And granted, it does happen a lot, you know, but how you interpret that can be very different. You know, if you're, if you're, if you're removing hope, and you're going into it with this old story for me, an old story of people will let you down, you know, people will disappoint you, they'll let you down. They'll abandon you. Yes, we're going to do an episode on abandonment. Don't worry, get excited. I was when Nina mentioned it, and I was like, Oh my God, I've loved to talk about abandonment. Very familiar with my abandonment wounds. It was so illuminating to be like, you can when you go through that when you go through things with less of your old story, it lets you show up differently. And it lets it play out differently. And it feels very different, which was nice to start, like learning that in real time on with lower stakes of like, was it going to be the end of the world? If someone like didn't upload a video? No, it wasn't, you know, it would be annoying, but we could figure it out. So it was like this good way for me to start, like, you know, putting more hope I think into my day to day life. Because I think I have it in a broad sense. I think I have a lot of hope about humanity and things that I'm like, I do believe in the good of people. I do believe in the like triumph of good over evil. Yes, things are real bad right now. But like, I do believe in those things. You know, I do have a big, big hope. I think I struggled to have little hope. You know, and it's been interesting for me to see it like it doesn't cost you anything. Like if you're gonna get hurt or get disappointed if that if that's coming inevitably, hoping for a different result doesn't cost you anything.

I think you are so good at having the big hope. And I have to have the small hope. Because otherwise I will never have the big call. Like obviously I have the big hope because if I didn't, I wouldn't be doing most of the things I do. Right. I feel like what's it all for? So I hold that belief on a deep level, but the surface me and the kind of angsty me is like, Oh, well, we're all fucked and it's ghetto. It's a burning, burning house. When the small things come up, I'm like, I can't I cannot look at the possibility that this or not, but I wouldn't say it's like I don't look at the possibility I'm realistic. But I can't hyper focus on the negative because it's really easy for me to do that. So I've really tried to train myself not to because I don't want to be breaking my own heart all day long. And then having other people break it too.

Oh, I find it so interesting because like, you're not afraid of negative, you can be negative, like, you've no issues with that I find it interesting sometimes, like, your discipline may be around that, you know that you're like, No, no, no, no. Here, I'll keep you on your toes. I'm not negative. I'm hopeful. Like, but that. Yeah, I was like, I forget him when I was like my router, you know, and you were like, I'm cheesy to be hopeful. I'm like, Who's this bitch? Like, this is a noob? Who's entered the chat? And I'm like, why? You know, like, ma'am,

I do have an issue with being negative, I would like I have less of an issue with it, then. I think I used to be really sensitive about it, and me appearing that way to other people. And now I don't really sweat that I find myself in conversations a lot where people are like, you know, we're talking about something or I'm not introducing a new concept. Like everybody I know, everybody agrees with what I'm about to say. That's not why I say it. But everybody's been kind of like nice and like sunshiny about it. And I'm just like, well, this kind of fucking sucks. Like, I was at a bridal shower once. And everybody at the table was so deeply uncomfortable. And I was like, I literally looked around, and I was like, Why does everyone feel like such shit at these things? Like, nobody's having a good time right now. And everybody was like, like, burst out laughing. And I'm like, I'm not. I'm not lying. I know, you guys know what I'm talking about. Let's just break the ice. So I think it can serve me well in moments, but I don't I have to be aware of how much I lean on that as a defense mechanism. Because I do. And yeah, and I don't want to be the, you know, I have the I'm the toughest and I don't care and everything sucks, and everyone sucks. I just can't live like that. So I try to be on top of my own shit as much as possible. When I can.

Yeah, that's not gonna feel good long term. I know. Because I can, doesn't I get me I, I feel you I can I can dig my own pits. And then I'm like, Alright, let's climb out of the pit. You know, it just,

I also believe in, you know, that our words are really powerful. And I and I don't think we like manifest bad thing, necessarily. But I do believe that if there's a chance in hell that I can create, which a lot of what I have right now, I've spoken and asked for and put intention to before it's, you know, come to be. So I have to believe and I've seen that my words are powerful. And, and so if I use them for, toward, you know, in a negative way or for bad, then like, I'm just why I often when I can I tried to direct them in a positive direction? As much as I can.

Yeah. I'm with you. Like words are spells? So it's like, yeah, exactly. You know, like, that's something I try to be mindful of, and like, not like cursing myself, you know, which totally. You're one of the only people who give me any kind of hope in my love life. How do you what do you before we have to wrap up? How do you think people can find hope? I think if you can find some way to almost like, trick yourself into being hopeful it will generate more hope. But how do you think people can generate hope or be hopeful for things that are maybe tender? Or there is a lot of evidence of like, you know, like, it's hard to believe or, you know, because like, I also have a lot of clients that come to me about hope stuff, like with fertility issues, and they I mean, there's so many things that like, I do think hope is really important for, but I understand why it feels so hard and painful for people to give themselves over to it and to really say I we hope we have another baby or whatever. How do you think people can be with themselves and generate that hope when it feels really hard?

I think it is a delicate balance of relentless, relentless rerouting of like, No, I not and not overriding your negative thoughts or your thoughts that are, by the way, maybe based in absolute, like reality. You have data facts, right? Yeah. It's been hard. It's been challenging. It hasn't happened for me like,

oh, that's real, right? No toxic positivity here.

No, absolutely not. But we have to believe number one, that I say this to people with fertility issues too, obviously incredibly Careful, but I do say it might not look the way you think it's gonna look are you wanting to look, but if you want to be a mom, you will be a mom. If you want to be a dad, you will be a dad, if you want to be with a partner, you will be with a partner. If you think we just have to strip ourselves a lot of these expectations that we have, and also humble ourselves into a space of like, Listen, I'm going to put myself out there in whatever way in whatever form, whether that's by hoping whether that's by envisioning whether that's by writing down my fears about it, whether that's by writing down my hopes about it, but I'm not going to like, also just kind of wait for it to fall flat, or I'm going to meet the moment and whatever that means for you. Right? You can envision it and put some effort into it without running yourself ragged. I had a friend in the city who's to go on like, five or six or seven dates a week and I'm like, You are insane. Like, you are insane that you're dealing with many men. Then she was like, it's fine. And she didn't meet her husband that way.

It's funny. I was gonna say Did she because I feel like a lot of those women who was set up nope, that's so funny.

Yep. With this is how she got this. If you're listening. I know you are. I always admire that she was a dater. I was literally like a closed off. Yeah, kind of I work. I wore leather boots with spikes on them to the beach when we used to go to Montauk, like to the beach bars. And I remember this guy walking up to me once and he's like, you're really just like wearing fuck you everywhere, right? And I'm like, yes. Thank you so much for noticing. Oh my god, that's so sweet. I actually ended up sleeping with him.

I was gonna say I was like, He's worth flirting with like, that's yeah, he was funny. Well, dancers. Oh, he

was so boring. And, and I like one good line. But yeah, it was it was good enough. But she was walking with a co worker. And she was just like, Oh, you got anyone to set me up with like, or maybe it was I maybe I'm butchering the story a little bit, but essentially, her co worker set her up with somebody. And they fell in love. And so it's this. Like I said, relentless hope. And it has to be a thing. Right? And yeah, and allowing yourself though, for the bad days is incredibly necessary. Yeah. Because we have to have them we have to feel hopeless. Sometimes we have to feel like shit, we have to feel like it's not working out. We have to feel like never, maybe it never will. But it will. If you pick yourself up the next day and figure out how to move forward, you just have to keep moving forward. Like truly, that's the only way.

Yeah. And something you're saying it's like I've applied this in different areas. I've never thought about it really in the context of hope to be honest, but it's definitely where I've used it. But it's essentially like making the choice to say like, I'm removing any doubt around this. And you're going like, and you're not saying I'm crazy or have no touch with reality. But like your point about like being a mom, like, there, it may not be your biological child, but if you really want to be a mom, there are a million ways you can you know, and there's a million ways you can define it. You could I mean, I can't wait to have a house one day with 800 dogs that are my children you know, like I will be that person like in and I think mothering can feel very to all of that sort of stuff. But I agree with you that like and even though like manifestation stuff kind of creeps us out like that is a big point of it of like speaking things into existence by speaking them as as truth you know, and I think like that removal of the doubt can help with being able to build the hope of like, I'm no longer gonna doubt this and that doesn't mean don't feel your feelings are the days you feel low or whatever. But it's like I'm no longer gonna question if this will happen to me and we're gonna accept I don't know when you know exactly

when we when I used to work in Mexico and do the retreats. I think I've said this here before we used to throw out one of the rituals before the retreat was we would hand everybody seven beans and we would walk to the ocean and we would ask them to throw them in the ocean and you know, plant SEVEN, SEVEN seeds of intention whatever they chose to be asked for something planted intention, blah, blah. And I every single retreat, I would go and say in the in like it is currently happening. I have a partner who is XYZ. I have a healthy baby. I have blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And I would and I was really trying to speak it into existence. I was still like sleeping with someone Probably shouldn't be slipping with not because he was bad, but like, he was definitely like, not my person, you know? Or, and but again, like who who cares? I was having fun. I was so lonely sometimes I was questioning some days if it would ever happen. But I kept going back to that place and being like, it's gonna happen. I just don't know when. Yeah. And then it'll happen in a year.

Which is wild to me literally, like so while my bank, like, should be triggering for me, because I'm like, No, you have to, like work much harder and do things much longer. She's like I said, it is so it will begin it is already my God. It's happening. It's in LA. And I'm like, I thought I had a strong will. And then you meet some who's like, Oh, God, I'm like an amateur. I'm like, still, I like on training wheels, you know, of like, it is exciting. There's do levels, you know, it's you and also and a few. Lord cowboy, like, when she was talking about being on a date, though. And a guy was like, like talking about my life. He's so embarrassed about like, promoting yourself. And she was like, I do not allow shame around my practice. I was like, Whoa, yeah, like, if you have. Yeah, I feel. Yeah, I feel like so that is something I'm like, waking up to more recently of like, things can be as simple as that, you know, and I would offer that to people. Like, if you think your purpose is like, I don't know, like, like, waxing, then like, have had it, I'm sure you're the best wax are in down, you know, like, I think so. So often, there's all this judgment, or we think it couldn't possibly be that or be that simple, or whatever. But I think a lot of the stuff that feels the best to us, and that we have so much hope for is really simple. You know, it does click into place it does. And it's how do we deal with our frustration when we don't feel like that's happening? How do we take care of ourselves when it doesn't feel like we can do much to make it happen. But I do think returning to that truth returning to that simple of like, I'm calling in a partner, I'm calling it you know, like, I think that is the practice? I do.

It is it is and it's really annoying, because it is so simple sometimes, and it is in our control, even though nothing else is. That's where I got some hope from like, I can control this, I can control how I talk about it. And if that's all I can control, then I'm going to do that because I have to be have to be an ally for myself here. I have to be if I don't believe in myself, or I don't believe that I'm going to have a partner then. I'm probably not going to

who I have to be an ally for myself. Yeah. I mean, you already blew my mind a couple episodes, not a couple of weeks. I mean, it was like episode like three when you're talking about like being your own best friend. And I was like, oh, yeah, it's really true. Like, people say it, but you really have to be it but you're right. If you're saying I'll never have a partner like, okay, like, how are you? But yeah, are you gonna vote so? Yeah, yeah, we have to be an ally for ourselves.

Well, thanks for hanging out guys.

Yeah. Hope your find some hope somewhere.

We hope you'll find your purpose. It's under your pillow. All right. Bye bye for now.

Bye.

That's all for today's episode.

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