Hey, it's Samantha. Back with another encore episode, this time on pricing. How to calculate and get paid higher fees for your work. I'm reissuing this one for one reason. I want you to be rich. Enriching women is my passion, and I want to keep reminding you to think about the principles I covered in this episode. Not everyone is comfortable bringing up money with family, friends, or colleagues. But please find just one person who'll talk about money with you, who'll challenge your limiting beliefs and celebrate with you when you close deals forever. Higher amounts. Be sure she hears this episode, too, so you both know what to look for. May you be richer in all ways. Welcome to Profitable Joyful Consulting, where you'll discover how to multiply your revenues without exhaustion. Working with perfect clients on transformational engagements. I'm your host, Samantha Hartley. If you're a woman consultant ready to increase your profits and enjoy your business more, you're in the right place. Let's talk about charging what you want for your services, hundreds of thousands of dollars charging that rate and getting it. So specifically, I want to talk a little bit about why men can do that. What comes more easily to male consultants, as far as I see in my work, then comes to women consultants. Let's talk about that, because I want to just tell you some brutally honest things that I see about what's happening. Then I'm going to share what women can do to get that number that they want to get, charge that price that you're looking for. And I'm going to share with you several examples of my clients who are doing exactly this. I teach women to command a high, high rate for their services, not what you're worth because you are priceless. I want to teach you how to disentangle your worth and your identity from this number and also to be bold and competitive and go in there and say, this is what the service is worth and this is what I want for it. That is what's going to separate you from consultants who are struggling. You don't have to accept what everybody else is doing. And a lot of the reasons why I think women consultants are doing that is because they don't know what others are doing. Very often when a client first comes to me, one of the first things that she'll say is, like, I just want to know, like, how are other people doing this? It doesn't need to be a mystery. So I'm going to share with you today some of the things that I see. So part of today's inspiration is that I See men consultants charging, like $300,000 for an engagement. And I'll see a woman consultant go in and really struggle to say a number like 30,000. And if I look at what they're doing, the work is similar. And really the only difference is that one is a guy who feels like he can do this, and one is a woman who's struggling to. To kind of get her head around and her confidence around that number. So the men tend to be more confident. Well, what else is true? Well, if we're just going to look back at the gender thing in general, a lot of times men are the breadwinners in the family, and so they just feel like they're entitled to go in, and they kind of have. Have to go in and get these big numbers. And so they do. I think men tend to take things less personally, by and large. I do know some very sensitive men. I listen, I know gender exceptions to everything I'm about to say. I'm just talking gross generalization. And as things are, you know, broad strokes, men tend to think take things less personally. And so if they say a big number and they get some pushback on it, it doesn't, like, shatter their confidence. They're like, okay, well, we'll negotiate on that last 30k, but in general, it's gonna be 270 and not 300. But I'm not going home with my tail between my legs, and I'm sorry I asked. So they see things, I think, a lot of times more competitively and more like a game than, like, their whole world collapses if something doesn't go exactly the right way. And also, they are accustomed to charging more, being paid more. Like, we all know as a society that that's true. And I think men take that in stride. And then I think testosterone has something to do with it. I just think you have this hormonal thing that says, I'm a go in there and, like, kill that mammoth and, like, win the day or, you know, whatever is the warrior kind of attitude. So I have women that I work with who have a lot of those same attitudes. And I don't think we have to, like, be guys or be warriors in order to get those same results. Although it can be fun to do those things, but it can be better if we just have a perspective. So some of what I'm going to share with you is just like, what else is going on when these things are working so very important to me. I run in my business and in my life, and when I'm working with My clients, I'm on no blame, no shame. Coach, business owner, team leader. It's all about no blame and no shame. So none of the things that I'm saying today are intended to say like, well, you've been doing it wrong and you should be ashamed of charging low prices. I'm also never going to say, well, you're charging 70,000 when you could be charging 150,000. And so you're bad and wrong. I'm never saying that. Exactly what you're doing is. If that is the result that you want, then awesome, knock yourself out. What I'm saying is, if you would like to do things differently, I'm going to share with you some ways that that can happen. If we look at situations like, well, I'm just older than other people. I'm not going to be able to do that. Or I'm, you know, I'm from the south. And in the south, people don't really, you know, they think that women shouldn't be earning more than men. Or there's all of this, like, well, there's a glass ceiling. And just like women generally are not paid like men are, or, you know, in this economy, things aren't really like, I can't really do that. If I go into victim mode and I think about all the reasons that things can't happen for me, then I never am going to get what I want. And so what I'm encouraging is, like, rather than blaming ourselves or shaming ourselves for the way that things have been, I choose empowerment. I like to take responsibility for it. And I'm like, okay, glass ceiling, fine. Here's what I'm going to do. I'm going to start my own business. Well, but the economy's really bad. Well, guess what economy is going to be bad for other people. I'm going to choose my own economy. So I'm going to find a way to work with the kind of clients who can afford to work with me, who can. Who see the value in services that I'm bringing and things like that, okay? So to me, it's not about blame. It's about taking responsibility and empowering ourselves to do things differently and to get what we want. The more I expect to get what I want, the more I do get what I want. And no matter how, like, marginalized I might be, like, I've worked with clients who are, um, women who are older, women who are people of color. All we can take that stuff on and we can turn it around to where we get the results that we want in our business. So let's look at some client examples, because I promise you, there are so many clients I've worked with who have begun to work in this different way. And I just, I chose a few and I. Because I just didn't want to do, like rattling off 20 stories for you. I've grouped them into three categories that I think are pretty relevant for you to take a look at. The first one is modeling. It's when you're investing something and you turn around and charge your client exactly what you've been investing. So, for example, one of my clients, who is a leadership development coach came to me. The program that she took, that she invested in with me was a $60,000 program. She turned around, got a new client within like six or eight weeks and charge that client $60,000. Makes perfect sense, right? That she would say, here's what I'm paying and so why not do that? That was the first one out the gate. Since then, she now charges $250,000 and more for her engagements. But it was kind of a stair step way for her to begin to go from like $1,500 a day or whatever she was charging something ridiculously low to, okay, I'm going to, I can do 60,000, I can charge 60,000 to now 250,000. Right. So it's kind of ramping yourself up more and more because you begin to get accustomed to things. What I think is interesting about that is that when my clients who have come out of corporate have, were like paid, let's say, $360,000 a year, had a client who came out of Target and was being paid that, okay, so what? That's her, like her thermostat for what she earns. So what I'll notice is that if they've been in business for a year or two or three there, they probably will steadily earn more and more, But a lot of times they'll top out at that number. So I've worked with a number of people who were stuck at a certain revenue level, and it was equivalent to what their corporate salary had been. So I share the modeling example for you because if they get stuck at the corporate salary, it tells you, oh, they need, they need ways to break past that. And a lot of times this modeling what I'm doing of like, just stair step it, don't like, immediately go to 700,000, like stair step yourself up so you don't freak yourself out, and you gradually begin to be able to charge more and more and more and you get accustomed to that. Had another client, Leslie, who did the same thing, taking a different program from me. Hers is a 50,000 a year. So she, she wasn't sure about transitioning to working this way. So she did a 25k, sold actually two 25ks for six months. So it's really a 50k. But she's not sure if she wants to work this way. If it's going to. Maybe the price is actually going to be a little too low that way. It turns out she thinks it is and she thinks she can charge more for it. Uh, so she'll, when she does the renewals for these clients, these will be year long renewals instead of six months. And they'll probably be benchmarked at more like 70, 60 to 75,000 as opposed to 50,000. Cool. So you can see how when somebody says, well, if I can pay that to someone to grow my business, well, certainly the clients that I'm working with can pay that and more. So that's the kind of like the modeling me version of it. The second couple of clients that I want to look at are ones who are athletes. Athletes are competitive and so, and they tend to view things as a game and view life as a game. And so I have a couple of clients I've worked with who are just like, I think I can do this. So my client Patty, when she first came to me, she's doing CFO services and when she first started with me, she was doing like a little bit of work she would do for her clients would be, and I say a little bit because she wasn't doing like year long transformational engagements. She was just doing like little projects for them. And it was like 25 or 30 $500 a piece. And so as you know, from hearing me like I'm going to want her to do year long engagements, I'm going to want that to be way more in invested. And she was looking at on a monthly basis what they'd be paying. So she began to charge, you know, higher and higher and higher. And she tells me that the first time that she did a, I think it was an 11,000, 10 or 11,000, she was like, well, I was nervous as shit that they were going to say no, but then I just stayed with it and then they said yes. So once you've got the adrenaline high of like, wow, I just sold that in, then it can turn into more and more and more. So she's doing fractional department, she's doing fractional services, which is something I'LL talk about in a second. But that kind of competitive spirit I think is what emboldens her every time to be raising her prices and keep raising her prices. And I think there's somewhere 15 niche a month and she has several clients at that level. So that bottom of the revenue pyramid, the way I teach to do that, she's definitely doing that. Another client who came to me and said, I'm working with, I have this opportunity and I don't know how to price it. So when I looked at who she was working with and what she was charging, it was, you know, in the 60s and 70 thousands. And so we talked about this new opportunity and I said, this is another sporty woman, super athletic, super competitive. And so I said to her, what do you think for this one? And she said, I think it's probably about 125,000, but I'm not sure. And the more she told me about it, I said, I think it's actually about a $400,000 engagement and I think you could do a lot more, but I feel like probably 400,000 is what you're going to be comfortable with. Sure enough, she went and sold that in for $400,000. Now if you're wondering, like, well, what kind of work are they doing? She's doing executive coaching, Executive coaching of leadership teams. So a lot of times people are like, well, I don't really do the kind of thing that you could charge that kind of money for. Yes, you do. Yes, you totally do. I have another client who was a man and he was charging $300,000 a year to one client and he was doing pretty much something like life coaching for an executive, like a very high level entrepreneur, CEO kind of executive guy. When you're working at that level, life and business are the same thing. So you could say it's $300,000 in business coaching, but nevertheless, I want you to be hearing like, these are the rates that people are charging. Cool. Okay. So that was my second category, which is like when you are competitive and you have that competitive spirit, you can like really charge those higher prices. The last category is when you're a department or a fractional department as opposed to an individual. And I do think that this makes things easier because a lot of times it's like, well, it's just one me. Doesn't have to matter. But if you take that on, then it's going to impact your prices. I don't see that happening as much for my clients who are like, they have a lot of people to pay. So my first example is an IT consultant. I was working with Carrie. Her case study is on my website. They were charging hourly for their services and they had teams of people who would go in, but it was all this hourly billing and was super onerous to do this billing. Uh, and the, the clients like were paying tons and tons of money per month, but it was all based on an hourly rate. And I was like, listen, you know how to direct the work better and to charge like what you need to be doing for this? Like, why don't you just get this to where you're charging them a monthly rate? And so she got this package. Well, we did basically working together on this. We packaged this into a certain set number of packages and she went out and immediately sold a $480,000 engagement. And she's has other packages that go in the business, but that $480,000 one was the one that was like, light bulb. I can charge by, you know, not by the hour. I can charge these larger sums. And you know, when you go in and sell a 500k, dude, it's like, game over. So she also is a very competitive person and love going in and getting that win. So it's just a matter of getting that confidence really going. Last example I'm going to share is my client Sharon, who had done an assessment phase for $250,000 and didn't make any money on it herself after she paid all of her subs. And so she called me in and said, I need to. They want to continue, they want us to implement, but I need to give them a number that actually I make some money on because I can't afford to do this again for free, for no profit for herself, right? So we looked at it and I said, well, what do you think? And she said, well, I feel like I can do 400,000. I'm like, that assessment phase was 2:50. It doesn't make sense for this phase not to be, you know, relative to that, like larger. So I really looked, you know, ideally, I like an assessment phase. If it's going to be like 250,000, I feel like the whole thing should be to 2.5 million, right? Like a 10% usually can be 20, 25, but nevertheless not like 250 and then 400. So over the course of working on this, what we got to. When I looked at like what the client was going to earn, what they were going to save, like what's the real value to the client, I was like, you know, I think you could go with like three and a half million. She's like, I'm never going to be able to charge that. Why? Well, there's competitive. That they'll just go to a competitor. Like, it's not a competitive price. So I'm not. I know she's not going to charge that. Right. I'm putting out a number that I want her to feel into. So over the day, we began to kind of like, work and work and work and get down to a number that felt like more that she could. Like, I can embody this number, which is a really important thing about pricing and really important thing about confidence is like, can you really stand in this number? And so we got it to 800,000, and she went and sold it immediately. The client said yes, because of course they need them. Right? So feeling into that, like, really figuring out what the value is, that piece is super important. So those are examples like, women just like you are doing this. They're not miles more experienced. They're not miles more like, impressive or whatever. It's women just like you, and you can do it, too. So let's get into the how to. Specifically. The first thing that you have to do is to know the value of your work. So you can hear when I'm talking to the clients about setting the price, it's like, what's the client going to earn or save as a result of working with you? What's going to be really different? What's the measurable income or outcome that they want to have happen now? If you're doing something which is with softer skills, they'll still be able to be do or have something different after working with you than they could have had at the beginning. So figure out what that is and make sure you articulate it. The client is not going to connect the dots on their own. So you have to know the value and communicate that value. Perspective, to me, is another thing that I think is really important. Like, what are other people charging out there? And if you're going in and you're saying it's 30,000, and you have a client or a competitive bid from a colleague saying, I think I can do it for $300,000, people are going to choose the confident man, and sometimes they're going to choose the confident woman. I went in, this is years ago, by the way. So I went in on and pitched an engagement where my closest competitor had bid 15,000. And I was like, I think this is a $60,000 engagement. And the bank whose president, who said yes to Me and accepted my offer. Said when we saw the other guys, we realized he didn't understand the engagement. So they don't always choose the cheaper alternative. They choose the one who has the confidence on what they're doing. And sometimes something that is more expensive seems more valuable. Like it makes a lot more sense. That bank president told me like they had to take a big gulp because it was like a lot of money for them. It was more than they intended to pay, but it didn't cause more than they intended to pay, did not cause them to choose the cheaper option. Okay, so have some perspective on what is possible and what you could be charging. If that's not going to happen in my industry, well, that doesn't really happen for, for me or my situation is different. If you say something, if you make excuses about what is possible for you, then that's going back the victim role. And I'm asking you to empower yourself and take control, take responsibility and take control of what is possible for you and go in and command these prices. Here's my caveat. If you're like, I really, really need this project, I really, really need this work. I can't risk it. Well, don't, don't risk it if you can't risk it. Every time that you go in with a price on your offer, you know, if you're dropping a bomb on them on the table and you have not talked this through thoroughly with them and figured out what the value is so that they agree that this is the value of what you're going to do, then you're gonna have a problem and it might not go through. And so there is a lot of skill and stuff to know about how to do this. But needing it to go through is the thing that can tank it every time. You've really got to have non attachment to this. What if you really need the money? Okay, well then don't take risks when you need money. But once you have a certain amount of revenue coming into your business, that's the time to up your prices. That's the time to be like, okay, I have, I need to be paid what price I. I want to have. And start looking at that point to increasing your revenues. If you're constantly in a need cycle, you're never going to be able to snap out of that. At a certain point you're going to have to take a risk and say, I'm going to risk losing this one in order to change what's happening for me in my business. I'll tell you when that gets easier when you're mad. So my client Leslie, who went in and had been charging by the hour and was going to go in and change from people who are being charged by the hour to saying, no, actually it's going to be this kind of a rate now from, from now on to a more of a flat retainer rate. When she did that, these were existing clients. And it's really hard to do this on existing clients who are stuck and used to a certain thing. Well, you're stuck and they're used to a certain thing. But she was to the point where she was like, I'd rather not have the work than to keep doing this. And so that kind of like being so ready for a change that you're kind of like irked about who you're working with. That's the time to that you can really stand behind this. And you're going to go in, you're going to have a combination of confidence and a little bit of like mild anger or irritation. And that kind of thing can really cause the client to say, okay, yes, yes, we will do it. You have to prepare for these meetings. You have to prepare yourself. This is a mindset, as you can hear. And you can also hear there's technique in what I'm talking about. I can't cover all that is possible in the course of a podcast. And I've talked about price over seasons, so I'll reference in the show notes, I'll show you other episodes where I talked about this. But at the end of the day, when a consultant comes to me and she and I sit down and we talk about, we're going to double your business. And Sometimes we have 5x to business in one year. That is possible because we are attacking this from all the angles. So you have to have a new mindset. You have to decide, I'm going to make my own economy. I'm going to shatter a glass ceiling. I'm going to take responsibility for my results. I'm going to learn about what else is happening with the other, what the clients are paying and what other people are charging. I'm going to find that out and then I'm going to act differently. You can get a different result if you choose to empower yourself. Over the years, I've had a few women who were not able to change to working this way. And it has broken my heart. And very often it's because the cultural pressures that are on them, they're not able to let go of those. So even if we can break through the glass ceiling. Or even if they are out of that place in the south, or even if other people are not looking at them, they're still struggling to let go of those identities. So sometimes that is older women who just have internalized that misogyny or internalized that like you have this place and they really can't break out of that. Sometimes it's a cultural background where it's just like this is just how things are where, where I'm from and they can't release that. Or sometimes it's just self esteem and there's only so much I can do before, you know, somebody else has to pick up the ball. I want you to be rich. I want you to be profitable. I want there to be so much revenue coming into your business that you can be at choice about who you work with and when you work. I want you to be financially free. And the way that happens is for you to release these stereotypes, for you to release the expectation that society has of you, that you're going to be meek and sweet and go along with everything. And I want you to command prices that are commensurate with the value you are bringing your clients. Okay? And with that, I am wishing you an extremely profitable and joyful consulting business. Thanks for listening. As a thank you for being part of my community, I'm sharing free, exclusive resources to help expand your consulting business. Head to samanthahartley.com super to access bonus content and tools from the show. For a complete transcript of this episode and all profitable joyful consulting episodes, visit samanthahartley.com.