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Creates art podcast interview.

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Dr.

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Joshua Caraballo.

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Hello friend.

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This is Timothy Kimo.

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Brian, your head instigator with
create art podcast, where I bring

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my over 30 years of experience in
the arts and education world to

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help you tame your inner critic.

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In this episode, I'm going
to be talking with Dr.

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Joshua Caraballo, who is an industrial
organizational psychologist, currently

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residing in Denver, Colorado.

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Now his career trajectory has centered
on the themes of inspirational

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storytelling and applied science
for the sake of human betterment,

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especially for those who have been
historically marginalized and oppressed.

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Joshua has a deep passion for
For the human flourishing, awe

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inspiring experience in nature
and anything involving cats.

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Now you may be asking yourself, hey Tim,
how do you get these guests on the show?

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Well, what I do Is I subscribe
to a service called pod match.

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And what that does is that matches
me with other people that are

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interested in the same things that I'm
interested in, namely for me, the arts.

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And that's how I ran into Dr.

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Joshua Caraballo.

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He reached out to me and heard the
show and thought it would be a great

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idea for him to be on the show.

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And he has a new book out that
you're going to hear a lot about.

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And that new book is called I'm not
dead yet, how I turned my misfortunes

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into strengths and links to Dr.

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Carabello's website and how to get
the book will be in the show notes.

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So make sure you look out for those.

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Now, the sound quality on this
interview is not 100%, so I'm going to

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let you know that ahead of time here.

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So if you hear any squelches
or any weird things like that,

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that's what's going on there.

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Just using a new service,
which is called Squadcast.

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And I've used it in the past and
gotten decent results with it.

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This time was not 100 percent perfect,
but I thought instead of rerecording

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everything, it was important
to get this conversation going.

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To you, because there's a lot of great
tidbits in here that you're going to want

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to write down and you're going to want
to go ahead and get the book as well.

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So without further ado,
here's my interview with Dr.

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Joshua Caraballo.

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Folks, I have the privilege of having Dr.

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Joshua here with me today.

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Dr.

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Joshua, you're out there in Colorado.

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How is it?

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Oh

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my goodness.

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It, the weather is so beautiful this week.

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Um, anyone that knows
about Colorado weather.

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Denver specifically is where I'm at,
uh, will know that the weather here

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changes drastically, uh, sometimes
day to day to day, hour to hour.

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So this week is one of those weeks
where I'm taking a big, Breath of

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fresh air and saying, wow, I'm so
happy that the weather is just, I would

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use the word perfect, but it's almost
perfect because nothing is perfect.

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Been out to Denver myself.

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Oh gosh.

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It's been 10, 000 and 12 hours out there.

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And I got to tell you, the air out
there, it tastes like metal to me.

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Anyways, there's a big
independent bookstore downtown.

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I forget the name of it.

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The art scene there in
Denver is top notch.

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Thank you

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so much,

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yeah.

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I'm originally from South Florida, so
it's a big difference between Denver

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and South Florida for several reasons.

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But yeah, the art scene
here is tremendous.

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So I always say, or at least I have been
saying for the last three years that I've

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been here, It's the best decision I've
ever made, and I tell everybody, although

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other Denverites here probably don't want
me to do this because we're getting a

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little crowded here, but uh, you should
definitely come visit, and if you really

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love it here, come and live, because it's,
it's just so amazing to be around the

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mountains and the outdoors, there's so
many people that truly appreciate that,

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and it, it does so well for our art.

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As like being outside

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and it's really inspiring being out there.

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I, like I said, it's been over a decade
since I've been there, but I know when

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I was there, went to the bookstore, went
around town, saw the mountains and how can

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you not have a good time out in Denver?

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Yeah.

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I think that bookstore is
called the tattered cover.

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That's it.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Such an amazing bookstore.

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There's also another one in Boulder
called the Boulder Bookstore.

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Very easy to remember.

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And it's nondescript when you see it.

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It doesn't say Boulder Bookstore.

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It just says bookstore at the
front, but it is gigantic.

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It's three stories.

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It is a dream to be inside.

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So again, if anybody ever visits, please
make it a point to go to that bookstore.

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You will be so surprised.

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And if you go out and visit, you
automatically have a friend with Dr.

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Gott.

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So that's right, I'm talking to him
and let him show you around town.

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And I'll definitely, when I come out
to Denver, don't know when I'll knock

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on your door and be like, Hey, let's go
around, let's go to the Tatters bookstore.

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Let's get right into the yard here.

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Now I do know, and it
just full transparency.

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I have not read it yet.

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But you have a book
called, I'm not dead yet.

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I want to talk about that title first
and foremost, because when I saw that I'm

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of an age and it made me think of Monty
Python's Holy Grail where, you know, um,

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I'm going to tell you that this book
is not about Monty Python, Holy Grail.

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So can you tell me a little
bit about what, why that title?

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It's very eye catching,
but why that title?

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Yeah.

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First, I didn't realize this when
I was looking at or thinking about

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different titles for the book, but
I was definitely thinking about

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Monty Python, Holy, the Holy Grail.

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That is one of my favorite movies ever.

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And that line, With the old man
or older gentleman, if you will,

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who is just say, I'm not dead yet.

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I'm still alive.

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It just it stayed with me and I I saw
that when I was young and I just thought

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it was One of the most hilarious things
I had ever seen in my life So the title

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actually I can't say it comes from that,
but it definitely I was informed early

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on in my life with Performance the way
people express themselves, especially

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through mass media And even in more
localized, like theater productions, et

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cetera, has always gravitated towards me
and that informs everything that I do.

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And that's, that's the type of artist
that I am, a performance artist.

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And we can talk more about that,
but back to the name of the book,

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I've been through a lot in my life.

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I've faced a lot of adversities,
and although I consider myself to

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be young ish, I'm 47 years old.

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People might think, why are
you even thinking about death?

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But I've lived a life where I've had
to think about death for quite some

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time in a lot of different ways.

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So when I turned 18 years old, I was
diagnosed with Hodgkin's Lymphoma,

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and I was in stage four, and for those
who don't really know about stages of

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cancer, stage four is usually the very
last stage, where it metastasizes,

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if I'm saying that word correctly.

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I'm a doctor, but not that kind of doctor.

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I'm an, I'm an industrial organizational
psychologist, a little bit different.

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But, That was the first time
that I ever had to square away

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with the possibility of dying.

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Especially when it came
back a second time.

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I went through the first time about six
months of chemotherapy, and then two

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months later, As should happen, another
scan is done just to see what's going

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on, and all of my cancer was in my chest.

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So I had one tumor the size of a
football, the other one was the size

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of a golf ball, and in the book I
talk about how it's interesting and

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a little bit funny how doctors use
these analogies that come from sports.

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In some ways it's fitting, and in some
ways it's like, I don't know, I don't

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know how much of the game I want to be
involved in right now, especially when

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it has to do with a football in my chest.

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But there's a litany of other things
that I've experienced, but I could just

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focus on those two things for the moment.

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This changed my life as well, as you
could probably imagine, especially

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when I found out two months later
that the cancer had come back.

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It was very aggressive, and when
I was first given treatment, I was

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told that there was like a 95 percent
chance that everything would work out.

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I would be in remission
and life would move on.

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I was a young man.

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I was 18 years old.

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Don't worry about it.

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That's not what happened to me.

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And because of all of those things and the
way that it happened, I knew in my heart

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of hearts, I don't feel this way now, as a
preface, but during that time I knew in my

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heart of hearts that God was punishing me.

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Now why do I say that?

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I happened to grow up in a Jehovah's
Witness household and I was told at a

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very young age that being gay was wrong.

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And if you ever acted on that, That
you would not be able to live through

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the Great Tribulation or Armageddon,
as it's sometimes referred to as.

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And as silly as that might sound
to some people, when you are being

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brought up in your formative years
in a religious household, and that's

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all you know, you truly believe that.

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And, I probably knew that I was gay before
I even knew what sex was because it wasn't

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about sex, it was, and that's the other
thing, when people reduce a gay man's

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life or being queer, generally speaking,
to the sexual act, it just, it boggles

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my mind because we're human beings,
obviously, and there's so much else than

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sex that exists as part of our experience
here in life and being queer people.

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Just, I'll leave that for what it's worth.

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But I knew that I was gay because I knew
there was an attraction that I had and

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there was beauty, and artists know this.

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That is separate than sex.

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The beauty that we see in the world, like
with a tree, is not because, and forgive

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me for just going there and being silly,
we don't want to have sex with a tree.

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We find that the beauty of that tree is
so amazing that it touches our heart.

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It flows through our blood.

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That's being gay to me.

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That's how I saw the males form.

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Other males in my life had this sort
of spiritual connection to and that's

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the best way that I can explain that
and how I knew that I was gay but that

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was the conundrum because as a young
person and then understanding even not

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knowing how to put a label on I am gay
I just knew that there was an attraction

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to this male form but I also knew that
was wrong and I it was wrong because it

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was taught to me and sasphoric to the
age of 18 it makes sense to me that I

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thought that this was God's punishment.

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for everything that I had tried
so hard to get rid of in my life.

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But I realized something, the more I
tried to get rid of it, the harder it

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became to get rid of, because I was
actually trying to get rid of myself.

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I was trying to get rid of who
I am instead of accepting that,

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loving that, and embracing that.

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I do not say all of these things, and
this is one of the things I always

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like to say when I talk about my past.

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This is not to disparage religious people.

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This is not to disparage my family.

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I understand that when they brought
me up, they did it out of love that

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when they decided to become Jehovah's
witnesses, regardless of how I feel

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or how it's affected me, they did
it because they felt it was the best

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thing in their life, the structure and
community and religiosity and spirituality

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that religion gave my parents.

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met their needs and provided them with
something that they felt was great.

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And because of that, they
decided that they wanted to

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share that with their family.

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And.

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I don't fault them for that.

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What I do understand now is that sometimes
the very thing that people see as a potion

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for themselves that they drink and think
is wonderful can be a poison for others.

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And that's exactly what
had happened to me.

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I don't think it's about pointing fingers.

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I think it's about making it right for
myself, reversing the damage that has

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been done, which I will probably have
to keep doing for the rest of my life.

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Although I feel like a good
portion of that is now behind me.

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Learning how to love myself, learning
what my relationship with God is,

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learning how to renegotiate all the
relationships in my life with people who

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think that I should not be on this earth.

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Sometimes that means cutting them off,
sometimes that means like figuring out

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some sort of semblance of how to love each
other regardless of those differences.

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And everything in between and all of
that is so beautiful and all of it has

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informed my art, which I think is great

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that, that my God, that's awesome.

228
00:13:39,094 --> 00:13:42,255
I just want to reach through the screen
and give you a big hug after that, because

229
00:13:42,265 --> 00:13:48,234
that you're, you're talking my life,
honestly, because I came up with similar,

230
00:13:48,294 --> 00:13:53,504
very religious upbringing came out as
bisexual when I was in the air force.

231
00:13:53,514 --> 00:13:54,574
And this wasn't a time.

232
00:13:54,574 --> 00:13:54,744
So.

233
00:13:55,430 --> 00:13:57,130
Military, don't ask, don't tell.

234
00:13:57,280 --> 00:14:02,210
Luckily, I, uh, ran into a, uh,
group of people that became my

235
00:14:02,210 --> 00:14:04,370
adopted family, my family of choice.

236
00:14:04,460 --> 00:14:08,860
And now I'm, I've been married now
for, uh, 11 years, uh, to my wife.

237
00:14:09,330 --> 00:14:10,120
We've got kids.

238
00:14:10,319 --> 00:14:13,749
I always remember my parents telling me,
We're doing the best with what we have.

239
00:14:14,440 --> 00:14:16,170
And this is what we can offer you.

240
00:14:16,580 --> 00:14:19,620
And I'm just trying to do
the best with my kiddos.

241
00:14:19,680 --> 00:14:21,610
And offer what I have for them.

242
00:14:21,980 --> 00:14:23,770
Just opening up doors for them.

243
00:14:23,819 --> 00:14:24,404
A Lines.

244
00:14:25,015 --> 00:14:25,575
And all that.

245
00:14:25,585 --> 00:14:26,695
So enough about me.

246
00:14:26,705 --> 00:14:27,655
Let's talk about you.

247
00:14:27,665 --> 00:14:29,065
Cause I I'm there with you, man.

248
00:14:29,315 --> 00:14:32,605
You mentioned performance
art and I'm a theater kid.

249
00:14:32,685 --> 00:14:34,635
So I've done a lot of
performance art myself.

250
00:14:34,725 --> 00:14:36,254
Yeah, I was in theater in high school.

251
00:14:36,255 --> 00:14:42,584
So that probably explains a lot about
my choices, but with performance art for

252
00:14:42,584 --> 00:14:48,455
you, a lot of people don't understand
what the deal is with performance arts.

253
00:14:48,525 --> 00:14:48,875
They.

254
00:14:49,295 --> 00:14:51,705
We have the flash mobs and
people scratch their head and

255
00:14:51,705 --> 00:14:52,944
go, why are they doing that?

256
00:14:53,115 --> 00:14:58,735
Describe the way and the meeting
with your performance art.

257
00:15:00,205 --> 00:15:01,464
Yeah, that's a great question.

258
00:15:01,465 --> 00:15:02,515
Thank you for asking it.

259
00:15:02,565 --> 00:15:05,055
I say performance art, but
I'm a theater person as well.

260
00:15:05,065 --> 00:15:06,085
So let me start there.

261
00:15:06,115 --> 00:15:07,194
Those are my foundations.

262
00:15:07,414 --> 00:15:10,454
But the reason why I use the
term performance art is because

263
00:15:11,354 --> 00:15:12,774
you can't always do theater.

264
00:15:13,305 --> 00:15:13,905
It's hard.

265
00:15:13,945 --> 00:15:19,785
It's hard to get into, it's hard to
maintain, it's highly, let me just put

266
00:15:19,785 --> 00:15:24,505
it, it's very difficult to get in, um,
and it's definitely, it's definitely

267
00:15:24,724 --> 00:15:27,814
very difficult to make a living, just
like a lot of other types of art, right,

268
00:15:27,855 --> 00:15:29,375
and I really wish it was the opposite.

269
00:15:30,555 --> 00:15:32,784
But my heart will always
be in the theater.

270
00:15:32,844 --> 00:15:37,083
When I was really young, I'd
say four, five, six, I, before,

271
00:15:37,083 --> 00:15:39,594
and this is before, obviously,
I knew what theater was, acting,

272
00:15:39,594 --> 00:15:40,964
performance art, any of those things.

273
00:15:40,964 --> 00:15:42,106
For more information, visit www.

274
00:15:42,106 --> 00:15:42,334
FEMA.

275
00:15:42,335 --> 00:15:49,350
gov As a natural inclination as to who I
was and what I wanted to do, I obviously

276
00:15:49,350 --> 00:15:52,830
during that time I was reading the Bible
a lot and the Bible stories were being

277
00:15:52,830 --> 00:15:59,630
read to me, and so I decided to enact
the Bible stories for my parents and

278
00:15:59,630 --> 00:16:01,069
I would do it for their anniversary.

279
00:16:01,130 --> 00:16:06,200
We were not allowed to celebrate any
holidays or like birthdays, but one

280
00:16:06,200 --> 00:16:07,400
of the things that we did celebrate.

281
00:16:07,849 --> 00:16:09,750
Every year was my parents anniversary.

282
00:16:10,500 --> 00:16:13,530
I know that sounds counterintuitive
to some who may not know about

283
00:16:13,530 --> 00:16:15,669
you being a jobless witness,
but just take my word for it.

284
00:16:16,970 --> 00:16:19,540
That was the one thing we were
allowed to do and we embraced it.

285
00:16:20,469 --> 00:16:26,109
Every year, I so much looked
forward to preparing myself to

286
00:16:26,109 --> 00:16:28,569
do a role in front of my parents.

287
00:16:28,629 --> 00:16:31,800
And sometimes I would incorporate
my brother or my cousins.

288
00:16:32,435 --> 00:16:36,735
But that was something, again,
that nobody told me I needed to do.

289
00:16:37,415 --> 00:16:39,605
Nobody pushed me in that direction.

290
00:16:39,765 --> 00:16:41,965
It was just something
that was inside of me.

291
00:16:42,875 --> 00:16:44,074
And that means a lot to me.

292
00:16:44,074 --> 00:16:49,375
So regardless of how far I get away in
life, like during my nine to five or

293
00:16:49,395 --> 00:16:53,425
all the other things that I've done,
getting a doctoral degree, nothing

294
00:16:53,434 --> 00:17:00,044
has made me feel totally fulfilled and
whole, like performance art and theater.

295
00:17:01,364 --> 00:17:01,914
And.

296
00:17:03,020 --> 00:17:06,790
I realize that's who I am as part of
my identity and will never go away.

297
00:17:07,550 --> 00:17:11,040
One of the most memorable sort
of performances that I put on as

298
00:17:11,040 --> 00:17:15,530
a youngster is actually in the
book where I performed Jezebel.

299
00:17:15,579 --> 00:17:17,204
I don't know if anyone knows Jezebel.

300
00:17:17,514 --> 00:17:22,724
About the story of Jezebel, but she
gets pushed down from the top of a tower

301
00:17:23,035 --> 00:17:24,905
and gets eaten by dogs at the bottom.

302
00:17:24,944 --> 00:17:28,264
There's a lot more to the story,
but that's pretty much the takeaway.

303
00:17:28,295 --> 00:17:31,985
And the thing that remains with
people the most, the shocking,

304
00:17:32,025 --> 00:17:33,164
the shock value, if you will.

305
00:17:33,164 --> 00:17:33,354
Right.

306
00:17:35,914 --> 00:17:41,994
And although there are like stories,
I'm sorry, there are learning

307
00:17:41,994 --> 00:17:44,035
lessons to all the biblical stories.

308
00:17:44,495 --> 00:17:45,735
When I was doing this.

309
00:17:47,035 --> 00:17:52,625
I felt like there was something inside
of me that was not only wanting to tell

310
00:17:52,625 --> 00:17:58,204
the story, but also help people see
the value of what that story was about.

311
00:17:58,815 --> 00:18:01,684
And so what, what I think is
so great about the theater and

312
00:18:01,685 --> 00:18:07,814
performance art, generally speaking,
is that it helps communities come

313
00:18:07,815 --> 00:18:09,135
together, just like the movies.

314
00:18:09,670 --> 00:18:14,490
But I think the theater does this
even more and it makes us really

315
00:18:14,530 --> 00:18:21,060
contemplate why we exist and why
we treat people the way that we do.

316
00:18:21,330 --> 00:18:24,709
All the good, the bad, the
indifferent, everything.

317
00:18:26,140 --> 00:18:28,310
And there is nothing like it in the world.

318
00:18:28,760 --> 00:18:30,740
It is also a spiritual connection to me.

319
00:18:30,769 --> 00:18:35,800
So now that I'm not so much religious,
I find the theater and performance

320
00:18:35,800 --> 00:18:37,900
art to be my religion, if you will.

321
00:18:37,910 --> 00:18:39,540
If I'm, if I can call it that,

322
00:18:40,020 --> 00:18:40,560
but definitely

323
00:18:40,560 --> 00:18:41,660
my spirituality.

324
00:18:42,215 --> 00:18:43,305
That's awesome to hear.

325
00:18:43,305 --> 00:18:50,735
And with arts, we were talking earlier
about John Coltrane and he's my favorite

326
00:18:50,735 --> 00:18:55,644
jazz artist and a lot of his stuff,
especially in his later years, very

327
00:18:55,645 --> 00:19:03,074
spiritual when, when you're dealing with
the spirituality in arts, how do you

328
00:19:03,085 --> 00:19:07,594
find that difference than religious?

329
00:19:07,725 --> 00:19:09,814
How is that spirituality different?

330
00:19:09,915 --> 00:19:13,004
Yeah, there are plenty of
ways that it is different.

331
00:19:13,615 --> 00:19:17,225
And please don't take this
as a dodge to your question.

332
00:19:18,665 --> 00:19:24,985
In my mind, I think, for me,
I look at the connections.

333
00:19:26,505 --> 00:19:29,475
Again, I'm happy to talk
about the differences, because

334
00:19:29,475 --> 00:19:31,084
I know there are several.

335
00:19:31,265 --> 00:19:35,165
But the reason why I look at
those connections is because

336
00:19:36,025 --> 00:19:37,205
there are obvious differences.

337
00:19:37,215 --> 00:19:43,005
Like praying to God, and in this
day and age, what that has been used

338
00:19:43,015 --> 00:19:48,830
for as a weapon against Marginalized
individuals, as an example, can spark

339
00:19:49,320 --> 00:19:54,039
or create this sort of animosity
towards religion as generally speaking.

340
00:19:54,050 --> 00:19:59,339
And so just speaking about it can turn
people away because it's just like, Oh no,

341
00:19:59,350 --> 00:20:00,939
we're not going to talk about religion.

342
00:20:01,379 --> 00:20:05,059
It's just too, it's like
politics, those sorts of things.

343
00:20:05,059 --> 00:20:05,269
Yeah.

344
00:20:05,270 --> 00:20:08,650
You're in art for the most
part, you're not praying to God.

345
00:20:08,650 --> 00:20:13,350
You're not singing songs in
a congregation as an example.

346
00:20:13,410 --> 00:20:16,350
But the reason why I say
there's so many commonalities.

347
00:20:16,819 --> 00:20:20,899
Also is because what I have found
so profound in my life and what

348
00:20:20,899 --> 00:20:25,219
I as an artist is looking at the
ways that we are all connected.

349
00:20:25,239 --> 00:20:30,969
I love the philosophy of looking at the
universe and seeing how everything is

350
00:20:30,969 --> 00:20:32,860
connected in some way, shape or form.

351
00:20:32,860 --> 00:20:36,139
And I want to be careful because
there are exceptions to everything.

352
00:20:36,139 --> 00:20:37,979
It's not an all or
nothing sort of thinking.

353
00:20:38,669 --> 00:20:42,149
Somebody who's gone through
something traumatic in their life.

354
00:20:42,530 --> 00:20:46,920
Like when I had cancer, as an example,
or a woman who was abused, et cetera,

355
00:20:46,930 --> 00:20:51,199
all those atrocities that exist, I
hesitate to say that the universe

356
00:20:51,200 --> 00:20:54,539
is connected everything and that
this was all happening for a reason.

357
00:20:55,180 --> 00:20:58,550
That's when I draw the line and I say,
there are exceptions to everything.

358
00:20:58,570 --> 00:21:01,149
It's not a panacea to talk
about everything in our lives.

359
00:21:01,380 --> 00:21:02,620
It's more or less like.

360
00:21:02,825 --> 00:21:06,465
When you feel the spiritual
connection, that's what I mean.

361
00:21:06,485 --> 00:21:10,595
It's like, it's feeling like the universe
is giving you a sign or a symbol or, or

362
00:21:10,605 --> 00:21:12,894
some, and you can call that religious.

363
00:21:12,895 --> 00:21:14,034
You can call that spiritual.

364
00:21:14,034 --> 00:21:15,384
You can call that the universe.

365
00:21:15,384 --> 00:21:16,444
You can call it God.

366
00:21:16,455 --> 00:21:21,685
You can call it art, whatever you want,
but I have had the privilege, if you

367
00:21:21,685 --> 00:21:28,084
will, to be in congregations for the
first 18 years of my life and to feel.

368
00:21:28,530 --> 00:21:32,870
Inside with my heart, what it feels
like to have this solidarity with

369
00:21:32,870 --> 00:21:37,770
a bunch of other people who are
praying and singing and talking and

370
00:21:37,780 --> 00:21:43,109
congregating all on the same page,
that's the community that was built.

371
00:21:43,599 --> 00:21:48,459
And although the community also had
ways of pushing people away like myself,

372
00:21:49,100 --> 00:21:53,840
those commonalities is what I see as
the things that I want to extract.

373
00:21:54,639 --> 00:21:59,750
And the very same things that are offered
in communities like theater and in arts.

374
00:22:00,260 --> 00:22:04,310
And especially for those who
may be struggling and trying

375
00:22:04,310 --> 00:22:05,530
to find their community.

376
00:22:05,770 --> 00:22:08,830
Right now, I joined a choir
this year, early this year.

377
00:22:09,209 --> 00:22:11,339
And again, I lump that
under performance art.

378
00:22:11,559 --> 00:22:16,640
Because singing, It's such a wonderful
feeling, but that's another community

379
00:22:16,640 --> 00:22:21,300
where I'm accepted, I go in, and
I feel that same spiritual feeling

380
00:22:21,300 --> 00:22:25,990
that I felt many years ago, where
I was like, wow, this is amazing.

381
00:22:26,340 --> 00:22:29,759
It's also important because it helps me
to understand why people do what they do.

382
00:22:30,159 --> 00:22:34,400
It's easy to step aside and
say, those people They're weird.

383
00:22:34,620 --> 00:22:38,299
They're all, they're talking about living
forever on a different planet and they're

384
00:22:38,299 --> 00:22:39,739
doing this and they're doing that.

385
00:22:39,750 --> 00:22:40,460
Come on.

386
00:22:40,509 --> 00:22:41,270
There's no hell.

387
00:22:41,270 --> 00:22:41,920
There's no heaven.

388
00:22:42,119 --> 00:22:43,089
They're weird.

389
00:22:43,089 --> 00:22:43,699
They're stupid.

390
00:22:43,909 --> 00:22:44,569
All that kind of stuff.

391
00:22:44,690 --> 00:22:47,020
But there's a good reason
why they get together.

392
00:22:47,279 --> 00:22:49,310
They have their good justifications.

393
00:22:49,720 --> 00:22:54,629
There aren't any good justifications for
disparaging other people, but I see that.

394
00:22:54,629 --> 00:22:57,659
That's why I look at those
commonalities and it's not to ignore

395
00:22:57,659 --> 00:22:59,919
the hatred and the negativity.

396
00:23:00,229 --> 00:23:03,119
It's to say, how can I learn from that?

397
00:23:03,415 --> 00:23:10,195
And extract that, and the arts
happen to offer another venue to

398
00:23:10,275 --> 00:23:11,765
feel those very same feelings.

399
00:23:12,135 --> 00:23:16,414
So I can replace religiosity
with community in the arts,

400
00:23:16,974 --> 00:23:18,664
and I can still feel fulfilled.

401
00:23:19,405 --> 00:23:20,095
Absolutely.

402
00:23:20,105 --> 00:23:23,545
My wife and I, we just went
to go see at a dinner theater,

403
00:23:23,615 --> 00:23:24,965
Murder on the Aquarium Express.

404
00:23:25,605 --> 00:23:32,205
I've never seen play and that community
that you're talking about, so we're like

405
00:23:32,205 --> 00:23:37,805
sitting right next to people almost on
labs and some of the actors, so some of

406
00:23:37,805 --> 00:23:44,284
the servers or the demo, uh, one of the
people that committed murder with us.

407
00:23:44,645 --> 00:23:45,225
Serving us.

408
00:23:45,234 --> 00:23:48,375
So it was that instance,
Hey, we're all here.

409
00:23:48,395 --> 00:23:49,395
We're all enjoying it.

410
00:23:49,415 --> 00:23:52,495
We're all being entertained and
enjoying what's happening there.

411
00:23:52,895 --> 00:23:56,114
And live theater, I'm going
to toot my horn with live

412
00:23:56,114 --> 00:23:57,645
theater until the day I die.

413
00:23:58,235 --> 00:23:59,494
There is nothing like it.

414
00:23:59,605 --> 00:24:05,084
You can go see a movie, you can whatever,
but seeing that live theater really

415
00:24:05,924 --> 00:24:10,235
connects you with the person next
to you because you're sitting there

416
00:24:10,245 --> 00:24:11,524
and you're enjoying the same thing.

417
00:24:11,715 --> 00:24:15,144
With your books that has
come out, I'm not dead yet.

418
00:24:15,650 --> 00:24:19,000
Again, I'm thinking, I can't get
Monty Python out of my head, so

419
00:24:19,580 --> 00:24:23,800
forgive me on that, but I know for
myself, when I've published for, self

420
00:24:23,800 --> 00:24:26,440
published for, books of poetry, and

421
00:24:28,580 --> 00:24:32,210
for me, and it's been that number
of years since I've done that, but

422
00:24:32,220 --> 00:24:39,195
for me, I let my vulnerability go to
about, I don't know, maybe 75 percent

423
00:24:39,645 --> 00:24:47,004
that for you, how was it publishing
that book, telling your story, talking

424
00:24:47,004 --> 00:24:49,854
about the cancer and the upbringing?

425
00:24:49,994 --> 00:24:54,264
Did you feel, uh, you know, naked
to the world and, Oh my God, people

426
00:24:54,264 --> 00:24:58,324
are going to read this or where did
you save a little bit for yourself?

427
00:24:58,965 --> 00:24:59,825
No, it was hard.

428
00:25:00,215 --> 00:25:01,355
It was really hard.

429
00:25:01,504 --> 00:25:04,145
This was at times very grueling for me.

430
00:25:04,945 --> 00:25:08,495
And just to give you a preview, because
I don't want to give everything away,

431
00:25:08,525 --> 00:25:13,385
but I was sexually abused when I was
young by a cousin, a female cousin.

432
00:25:14,394 --> 00:25:19,415
I ended up abusing drugs and
alcohol for quite some time.

433
00:25:19,415 --> 00:25:23,694
It was part of that deleterious
cycle, if you will, where I

434
00:25:23,705 --> 00:25:25,064
just started destroying myself.

435
00:25:25,084 --> 00:25:29,995
I didn't care about myself, I
didn't care about the world, and

436
00:25:29,995 --> 00:25:31,284
I actually ended up in prison.

437
00:25:32,910 --> 00:25:37,080
And so what I just revealed to
you is very personal, right?

438
00:25:37,090 --> 00:25:38,500
It's wow, that's a lot.

439
00:25:38,690 --> 00:25:41,760
And I still haven't given you everything,
but that's the major stuff in my life.

440
00:25:42,180 --> 00:25:46,259
And the reason why I say that is not
so people can feel bad about for me.

441
00:25:47,739 --> 00:25:50,849
It's to show you the point
that you're making here.

442
00:25:50,860 --> 00:25:55,389
It's that yes, in order to spill
all that out for the world.

443
00:25:55,810 --> 00:25:59,660
To see you have to be vulnerable
and if there's a such thing

444
00:25:59,660 --> 00:26:01,880
as 150 maybe I would use that

445
00:26:04,170 --> 00:26:10,429
But i'd say any type of vulnerability
you're 75 Even if somebody does 10 I

446
00:26:10,439 --> 00:26:11,770
think that's what art is all about.

447
00:26:12,590 --> 00:26:18,270
It's about being vulnerable so that other
people in the world Can connect to that

448
00:26:19,270 --> 00:26:23,260
when you're looking at a character on the
stage or in the movies or Even if you're

449
00:26:23,260 --> 00:26:29,070
looking at a work of art What makes it
profound is when you can see yourself or

450
00:26:29,070 --> 00:26:35,530
circumstances in your life, past, present,
or otherwise, that come through, and it

451
00:26:35,530 --> 00:26:37,819
says something to you that stays with you.

452
00:26:39,230 --> 00:26:41,070
That's what makes it so profound.

453
00:26:42,029 --> 00:26:45,559
And there are so many people out there
that are struggling that may not have

454
00:26:45,559 --> 00:26:49,470
gone through similar things as me,
but may be thinking to themselves, I

455
00:26:49,470 --> 00:26:53,860
don't know, this is a lot, like how
This, this is just too much for me.

456
00:26:54,780 --> 00:27:00,330
And I always feel like if I can go
through all of those things and be okay.

457
00:27:00,340 --> 00:27:02,430
Cause no, I'm not trying to
pretend like I'm perfect.

458
00:27:02,630 --> 00:27:08,149
I'll always have something to work
on to become better, but I'm, I'm

459
00:27:08,199 --> 00:27:09,820
here and I'm not dead yet, right?

460
00:27:11,220 --> 00:27:15,330
It's like, if I can do that, then
the smaller things in life, it

461
00:27:15,330 --> 00:27:16,600
doesn't mean they're less important.

462
00:27:18,289 --> 00:27:19,539
But they're doable, right?

463
00:27:19,819 --> 00:27:24,289
If you're not dying from cancer, if
you're not in prison, being told that

464
00:27:24,289 --> 00:27:28,750
you're gonna die, get raped and killed
there, because it's such a horrible

465
00:27:28,750 --> 00:27:32,949
place to be that there's a lot of people
that are looking out to just destroy

466
00:27:32,960 --> 00:27:35,430
you as a person, I think it's okay.

467
00:27:35,500 --> 00:27:40,739
If I can get through those situations,
then I can get through a bad day at work.

468
00:27:41,979 --> 00:27:43,269
You know what I mean?

469
00:27:43,830 --> 00:27:47,529
And sometimes I even forget, even though
I've been through so much in my life.

470
00:27:48,210 --> 00:27:50,310
Sometimes I need that
friendly, friendly reminder.

471
00:27:50,320 --> 00:27:53,600
Sometimes I give it to myself and I
surround myself with people who are

472
00:27:53,600 --> 00:27:58,029
also very loving and supportive, which
is, I know a privilege that I have, but

473
00:27:58,040 --> 00:28:00,110
sometimes they help to remind me as well.

474
00:28:00,139 --> 00:28:01,299
And they're very loving about that.

475
00:28:01,300 --> 00:28:02,789
And they say, you're very upset.

476
00:28:02,790 --> 00:28:05,530
Now you have a lot going on in
your life, but this is nothing.

477
00:28:05,540 --> 00:28:06,450
This is okay.

478
00:28:06,840 --> 00:28:07,770
And I love that.

479
00:28:08,200 --> 00:28:13,910
Sorry if I got a little bit off track with
your original question, but it's yeah.

480
00:28:13,940 --> 00:28:15,180
When I first started.

481
00:28:16,304 --> 00:28:21,735
Looking into writing this book, it was
a few years ago and I, I got to the

482
00:28:21,735 --> 00:28:25,284
part of a few different parts that I
was trying to write and I just had to

483
00:28:25,284 --> 00:28:28,935
stop because I started crying so much
I couldn't even see in front of me.

484
00:28:29,175 --> 00:28:32,024
And what it was doing was it was
reopening some of these wounds

485
00:28:32,024 --> 00:28:35,905
and I realized I'm not sure if
this is the the right time for me.

486
00:28:36,405 --> 00:28:37,775
So let me process some more.

487
00:28:37,775 --> 00:28:39,055
Let me talk to some more therapists.

488
00:28:39,055 --> 00:28:43,525
Let me, you know, live my life
and I'll, I'll come back to this.

489
00:28:43,554 --> 00:28:46,625
But I always knew something just
like everything else in my life.

490
00:28:46,655 --> 00:28:51,014
If something keeps repeating itself
and keeps coming back to me, that is

491
00:28:51,015 --> 00:28:54,514
a sign from the universe as far as
I'm concerned that I need to do this.

492
00:28:54,544 --> 00:28:58,315
And my, and the book, my
memoir was one of those things.

493
00:28:59,574 --> 00:29:06,969
And then I moved to Denver almost
three years ago and I don't know.

494
00:29:06,990 --> 00:29:07,629
I can't tell you.

495
00:29:07,629 --> 00:29:09,520
I wish I could say it was
the mountains that did it.

496
00:29:09,520 --> 00:29:13,990
I don't know for sure But moving here
did something where it clicked it

497
00:29:13,990 --> 00:29:17,519
could have been time Maybe I needed
those three extra years, whatever it

498
00:29:17,519 --> 00:29:23,110
was, but then I became ready to write
this thing and it took me Let me see.

499
00:29:23,110 --> 00:29:28,990
It was like 4 14 months to
write it and It just flowed.

500
00:29:29,730 --> 00:29:30,909
I still cried a bit.

501
00:29:31,000 --> 00:29:34,149
I thought you know, there's still some
things there will always be that way

502
00:29:34,220 --> 00:29:41,010
but I wasn't, it didn't stop me in my
tracks where I could not complete my art.

503
00:29:41,660 --> 00:29:45,370
And I call this art, although
it's based in reality, but it's

504
00:29:45,419 --> 00:29:50,069
still like, it's recounting all
of these situations from the past.

505
00:29:50,080 --> 00:29:53,079
So there's an art form too, where you
have to pick and choose what details

506
00:29:53,080 --> 00:29:54,300
you use and all that kind of stuff.

507
00:29:54,300 --> 00:29:58,060
So short answer is yes, it was very hard.

508
00:29:59,080 --> 00:30:00,120
No, that's perfect.

509
00:30:00,590 --> 00:30:04,900
I'm just, I need to go get
this book like tomorrow.

510
00:30:04,950 --> 00:30:09,770
That's all there because I am
fully invested in it so much.

511
00:30:09,840 --> 00:30:13,710
I was invested in it before just from the
title, but now just hearing you talk about

512
00:30:13,710 --> 00:30:19,750
it, you had mentioned your, your day job,
organizational psychologist and all that.

513
00:30:19,760 --> 00:30:21,990
Myself, I'm a program manager.

514
00:30:22,070 --> 00:30:25,520
I deal with financial wellness
for the federal government.

515
00:30:26,500 --> 00:30:28,139
Probably not.

516
00:30:28,500 --> 00:30:32,190
Artistic, and I'm putting that in huge,
yeah, it's totally artistic, Joelmo.

517
00:30:33,220 --> 00:30:41,589
With your 9 to 5 and your artistic
practice, how do you reconcile the two?

518
00:30:42,199 --> 00:30:47,970
How do you gain that inspiration to
go ahead and do the art after 9 to 5?

519
00:30:49,409 --> 00:30:51,120
Yeah, what a great question.

520
00:30:51,240 --> 00:30:53,210
I think it's just being real with myself.

521
00:30:54,105 --> 00:30:58,425
We spent a good portion of our lives
and I say we, but I really mean me.

522
00:30:58,925 --> 00:31:02,605
And I'm sure there's other people
who feel similarly, but especially

523
00:31:02,605 --> 00:31:06,984
given my age, as I had mentioned,
being 47, growing up in a world

524
00:31:07,014 --> 00:31:08,965
where we're taught, Oh, you're a man.

525
00:31:08,974 --> 00:31:10,255
You're supposed to act a certain way.

526
00:31:10,255 --> 00:31:12,845
When you feel negative emotions,
you're supposed to control those

527
00:31:12,855 --> 00:31:14,325
things, especially in the workplace.

528
00:31:15,315 --> 00:31:19,925
And I've come to this place in my
life and, and psychology has been

529
00:31:19,975 --> 00:31:22,055
very helpful in helping me get there.

530
00:31:23,245 --> 00:31:28,645
Where I've been able to process a lot
more things in real time and not feel

531
00:31:28,655 --> 00:31:33,925
like I'm doing something bad or wrong
or that is socially unacceptable.

532
00:31:35,115 --> 00:31:40,665
And part of that is just being really,
not only true to myself, which means

533
00:31:40,665 --> 00:31:47,155
that you have to know yourself, but also
being assertive with those around me to

534
00:31:47,155 --> 00:31:48,935
let them know what my needs are as well.

535
00:31:50,375 --> 00:31:54,545
Now, I'm not perfect at this, but examples
of this are when I'm frustrated at work.

536
00:31:55,370 --> 00:31:57,760
And I'm unable to process
that during that time.

537
00:31:57,760 --> 00:32:00,500
And sometimes you can't because
you have to keep moving.

538
00:32:00,510 --> 00:32:04,830
You have to do your work, but what ends
up happening is that it culminates.

539
00:32:07,030 --> 00:32:10,210
I think a lot of people understand that
you're not, you shouldn't really bottle

540
00:32:10,210 --> 00:32:12,300
up your feelings, but we do it anyway.

541
00:32:13,150 --> 00:32:15,420
And the confounding effects
of that are tremendous.

542
00:32:15,460 --> 00:32:19,879
The release of that, when you're
able to, is very important.

543
00:32:19,940 --> 00:32:24,790
And so, I feel very privileged that I
work for a company where, and I have

544
00:32:24,800 --> 00:32:29,990
people that I'm surrounded with at
work and at home, where I'm able to

545
00:32:29,990 --> 00:32:33,140
process, for the most part, in real time.

546
00:32:33,150 --> 00:32:36,380
When something is bothering me, I
say, I need to get this off my chest.

547
00:32:36,975 --> 00:32:38,875
And so I find those safe spaces.

548
00:32:38,915 --> 00:32:41,195
I also happen to be in
charge of a department.

549
00:32:41,195 --> 00:32:45,235
So that's what I mean when I
say I'm privileged in that way

550
00:32:45,235 --> 00:32:46,945
because I get to set the tone.

551
00:32:47,305 --> 00:32:51,195
And I've also been on a lot of other
situations where the boss, if you

552
00:32:51,195 --> 00:32:55,255
will, although I don't consider myself
a boss, but the person in charge just

553
00:32:55,295 --> 00:32:57,065
did not give those opportunities.

554
00:32:57,065 --> 00:33:00,025
So what happens when that's the case?

555
00:33:00,595 --> 00:33:05,065
Mindfulness breathing exercises, which
are taught to actors from, for the most

556
00:33:05,065 --> 00:33:10,335
part, Early on when you're training
has something has been something

557
00:33:10,335 --> 00:33:14,075
that has been very helpful for me
And again, sometimes I just forget oh

558
00:33:14,075 --> 00:33:15,985
my gosh I I haven't done breathing.

559
00:33:15,985 --> 00:33:20,335
I haven't done any mindfulness and I
need it because i'm like i'm all over

560
00:33:20,335 --> 00:33:22,215
the place and My heart is racing.

561
00:33:22,215 --> 00:33:24,515
I also suffer from anxiety.

562
00:33:24,555 --> 00:33:28,655
So But it makes sense after everything
i've been through in my life that I

563
00:33:28,695 --> 00:33:34,515
overthink everything and so It's very
important for me to bring myself to

564
00:33:34,515 --> 00:33:39,205
a place where I'm able to calm myself
because that's how I'm able to get in

565
00:33:39,205 --> 00:33:44,025
touch with my feelings, get in touch
with myself, and then be compassionate.

566
00:33:44,505 --> 00:33:45,815
I think that's very important.

567
00:33:46,465 --> 00:33:52,654
Now, even with all those tools that we
have at our disposal, we're still going

568
00:33:52,655 --> 00:33:56,365
to be very busy working a nine to five and
then doing some sort of artistic thing.

569
00:33:57,045 --> 00:34:02,450
Right after this podcast, believe
it or not, I'm a glutton for I will

570
00:34:02,450 --> 00:34:06,610
be going into rehearsals for a play
and yeah, I can't do this every day.

571
00:34:07,070 --> 00:34:10,220
I need to be careful I need a lot
of self care during this time.

572
00:34:10,740 --> 00:34:15,589
And the other thing that I won't do is
back to back plays Because I will need

573
00:34:15,589 --> 00:34:20,715
to take a break after this That all goes
back to people who are listening to this

574
00:34:20,715 --> 00:34:22,215
would be like, what does that mean to me?

575
00:34:22,245 --> 00:34:25,195
What it means for you is that you
need to be in tune with who you are,

576
00:34:25,765 --> 00:34:27,615
understand where your threshold is.

577
00:34:28,045 --> 00:34:30,315
And sometimes that takes a
little bit of touching ghost.

578
00:34:30,375 --> 00:34:32,545
You know, you're experimenting
with that and then you seal it.

579
00:34:33,075 --> 00:34:35,894
But if you're not in tune with who
you are, you won't even know it.

580
00:34:36,345 --> 00:34:39,035
If you spent your entire life ignoring.

581
00:34:39,615 --> 00:34:43,785
the signs that your body, your mind, your
spirit have been giving you, and maybe

582
00:34:43,795 --> 00:34:47,495
even the universe, for whatever reasons,
and I'm one of those people, that's why

583
00:34:47,495 --> 00:34:52,324
I say that, then you're not going to be
able to know when the time is right for

584
00:34:52,325 --> 00:34:56,855
you to pivot, to stop, to keep going, etc.

585
00:34:57,185 --> 00:34:58,085
And that's really important.

586
00:35:00,285 --> 00:35:04,805
I, I, I can really relate to that
because, because my nine to fives

587
00:35:04,875 --> 00:35:06,595
were in what's called the resilience.

588
00:35:08,925 --> 00:35:11,335
Everything that you're saying
there, I'm like, man, I hear this

589
00:35:11,385 --> 00:35:13,435
all the time, day in and day out.

590
00:35:13,945 --> 00:35:19,195
But I think for the artist, and when you
said actors get this breathing training

591
00:35:19,225 --> 00:35:20,835
and checking in with their bodies.

592
00:35:21,325 --> 00:35:24,865
I'm just thinking about all the other
artists out there, like musicians

593
00:35:24,865 --> 00:35:30,385
that don't get the training, but
an actor does, and thank God I

594
00:35:30,395 --> 00:35:32,155
got that training a long time ago.

595
00:35:32,685 --> 00:35:35,095
Being resilient and
being kind to yourself.

596
00:35:35,105 --> 00:35:39,365
I recently had an interview where I was
being in, I was actually on the other

597
00:35:39,365 --> 00:35:43,774
side of the microphone being interviewed
and, and the interviewer asked me

598
00:35:43,824 --> 00:35:49,200
something to the effect of what, People,
what do people not know about you?

599
00:35:49,240 --> 00:35:51,620
And I said to him, I'm not kind to myself.

600
00:35:51,860 --> 00:35:57,910
I'm the type a I'm like, I'm not busy
enough and don't give myself enough rest,

601
00:35:57,920 --> 00:36:05,240
but I'm learning, especially with my day
job and just being a, uh, better artists

602
00:36:05,869 --> 00:36:10,330
than I was when I was 18, when I was
starting writing poetry, doing theater.

603
00:36:11,495 --> 00:36:13,235
At the ripe old age of 51.

604
00:36:13,255 --> 00:36:16,325
So you got a couple of years
to go, but I'm learning that.

605
00:36:16,325 --> 00:36:21,115
And I probably started when I was 45,
uh, 47 learning you need to take care

606
00:36:21,115 --> 00:36:27,504
of yourself, whether it be for your
family, for your job, I'm an artist.

607
00:36:27,505 --> 00:36:31,675
I always introduce myself as
I'm husband, father, artist.

608
00:36:32,615 --> 00:36:36,774
And that's how I keep all in,
in perspective for myself.

609
00:36:38,615 --> 00:36:43,935
Learning to take care of myself as
an artist is tough to do because we,

610
00:36:43,975 --> 00:36:47,734
and it sounds like to me, you have a
lot of ideas going through your head

611
00:36:47,734 --> 00:36:53,824
that you would love to see either on
the stage, on the page or sing for us.

612
00:36:54,284 --> 00:36:55,345
I think that's a huge point.

613
00:36:55,375 --> 00:36:59,664
We all need to take advantage of
with organizational psychology.

614
00:37:01,754 --> 00:37:04,805
How does that teach us
how to be resilient?

615
00:37:05,105 --> 00:37:06,435
Bring in that nine to five.

616
00:37:06,925 --> 00:37:08,955
Into our artistic practice.

617
00:37:09,495 --> 00:37:10,405
How does that teach us?

618
00:37:11,355 --> 00:37:15,545
I love this question because going
back to that synergistic mindset, I

619
00:37:15,545 --> 00:37:19,835
love how psychology is informed my art
and my art has informed psychology.

620
00:37:20,790 --> 00:37:24,550
And there, there's a subset of
IO psychology and psychology,

621
00:37:24,550 --> 00:37:26,900
generally speaking, that's
called positive psychology.

622
00:37:26,920 --> 00:37:30,339
And what I'd like to say is number
one, the first thing that you

623
00:37:30,339 --> 00:37:34,270
learn about positive psychology
is that it is not about ignoring

624
00:37:34,280 --> 00:37:36,220
negativity is not Pollyanna.

625
00:37:37,620 --> 00:37:41,979
It is about acknowledging
negativity in your life, but

626
00:37:41,989 --> 00:37:43,889
choosing not to focus on that.

627
00:37:44,459 --> 00:37:47,430
So you, Let yourself be in that.

628
00:37:47,760 --> 00:37:51,650
Did Nietzsche say this, something about
if you look into the abyss long enough

629
00:37:51,650 --> 00:37:53,150
you become the abyss, something like that?

630
00:37:54,480 --> 00:37:56,570
I love that, although I
probably messed up the quote.

631
00:37:57,250 --> 00:38:01,860
And, the reason why is because,
allow yourself to process like I had

632
00:38:01,860 --> 00:38:05,579
said before, negative emotions allow
yourself to be there for as long

633
00:38:05,580 --> 00:38:08,010
as you need to, but then move on.

634
00:38:08,710 --> 00:38:12,140
And what that means is Processing
time looks like for people is going

635
00:38:12,140 --> 00:38:13,260
to be different across the board.

636
00:38:13,720 --> 00:38:17,400
So I might get really angry about
something that takes me days to

637
00:38:17,400 --> 00:38:20,690
get over because maybe it triggers
something that happened in my

638
00:38:20,720 --> 00:38:24,389
childhood, whereas somebody else will
be over it and just five minutes.

639
00:38:25,235 --> 00:38:28,545
And so it's not about comparing,
contrasting during their time.

640
00:38:28,565 --> 00:38:31,995
It's about understanding, again,
who you are and why you're having

641
00:38:32,045 --> 00:38:34,455
to take five days or whatever
it is to process something.

642
00:38:35,035 --> 00:38:36,165
And then being okay with that.

643
00:38:36,205 --> 00:38:37,735
And then moving on and learning from it.

644
00:38:38,275 --> 00:38:41,584
And then one of those models that I
really appreciated and I started to

645
00:38:41,584 --> 00:38:43,745
institute in my own life is called PERMA.

646
00:38:44,595 --> 00:38:46,755
And PERMA is P E R M A.

647
00:38:47,225 --> 00:38:49,565
I can go over the acronyms
really quickly here.

648
00:38:50,155 --> 00:38:54,265
And what I like to do
is tie it to running.

649
00:38:54,615 --> 00:38:59,145
Running, if I may, because I, I don't
run as often as I used to, but running

650
00:38:59,145 --> 00:39:05,755
happens to be one of those activities that
help me to tap into every facet of PERMA.

651
00:39:05,785 --> 00:39:09,795
And there are artistic endeavors that
help me do the same, but I'm going to go

652
00:39:09,795 --> 00:39:12,895
to running because I've used it before,
and it's easy for me to remember all

653
00:39:12,895 --> 00:39:14,585
the different ways that it's on PERMA.

654
00:39:15,615 --> 00:39:16,795
So the P in PERMA.

655
00:39:17,010 --> 00:39:22,170
Is positive emotion and positive
emotion could be something like your

656
00:39:22,170 --> 00:39:26,140
favorite candy bar But what you have to
be really careful about with positive

657
00:39:26,140 --> 00:39:30,500
emotion, whether it's sex candy bars
or something other is that every?

658
00:39:30,660 --> 00:39:34,489
Positive emotion has a threshold if
you have a cookie, it feels really

659
00:39:34,489 --> 00:39:37,859
good, especially your favorite cookie
But maybe after the third or fourth

660
00:39:37,869 --> 00:39:42,209
cookie you start getting diminishing
returns And so that's the p and

661
00:39:42,209 --> 00:39:45,199
when i'm running I feel really good.

662
00:39:45,259 --> 00:39:49,320
I may not feel good You Before I
run because that's really hard.

663
00:39:49,340 --> 00:39:50,180
I'm like, I don't know.

664
00:39:50,180 --> 00:39:54,800
I'd rather watch tv But it feels good
once I start and then it's then it hurts

665
00:39:54,820 --> 00:39:57,990
because like i'm doing something that's
very rigorous And then in the middle of

666
00:39:58,020 --> 00:40:02,419
my run, sometimes i'll get this runner's
high which feels really good again And

667
00:40:02,419 --> 00:40:04,030
then it goes back to oh this hurts.

668
00:40:04,070 --> 00:40:05,959
I oh man, when is this
going to be over with?

669
00:40:07,030 --> 00:40:10,230
And then when i'm done I get another
hit of dopamine because I just finished

670
00:40:10,230 --> 00:40:13,410
something and so There's the threshold.

671
00:40:13,600 --> 00:40:14,620
I can't run forever.

672
00:40:15,260 --> 00:40:18,790
I can only do about three miles You
If I do more than that, I start to get

673
00:40:18,790 --> 00:40:20,760
really serious, diminishing returns.

674
00:40:20,820 --> 00:40:25,560
The P is a part of how you build
flourishing and well being in your.

675
00:40:26,740 --> 00:40:27,870
The E is engagement.

676
00:40:28,210 --> 00:40:30,750
And in order to engage with the
world around you, you need to

677
00:40:30,750 --> 00:40:32,089
understand what your strengths are.

678
00:40:32,440 --> 00:40:34,080
And then the idea behind.

679
00:40:34,365 --> 00:40:40,475
The E or engagement is that you try
to forge ways in your life where you

680
00:40:40,505 --> 00:40:43,465
are creating things that actually
help you with your strengths.

681
00:40:44,214 --> 00:40:48,455
One of my biggest strengths and anybody
can take this assessment that's online.

682
00:40:48,464 --> 00:40:50,785
It's called the values
and action assessment.

683
00:40:50,805 --> 00:40:51,325
It's free.

684
00:40:51,755 --> 00:40:55,485
So I'm not pitching you anything
that would cost you money, but you'll

685
00:40:55,485 --> 00:40:56,735
have to give your email address.

686
00:40:56,745 --> 00:40:59,275
So maybe if you had one of those
emails that you didn't mind giving

687
00:40:59,275 --> 00:41:03,435
out, what this does, there's a
32 or 34 different strengths.

688
00:41:03,835 --> 00:41:05,915
That have been validated in the research.

689
00:41:06,075 --> 00:41:06,935
Let me fast forward.

690
00:41:06,935 --> 00:41:10,905
Cause I don't want to make it all about
the assessment, but my number one strength

691
00:41:10,915 --> 00:41:14,025
for years, cause you could take it every
so often, every few years, just to see

692
00:41:14,025 --> 00:41:17,934
if your strengths have changed is the
appreciation of beauty and excellence.

693
00:41:18,545 --> 00:41:19,945
And how wonderful is that?

694
00:41:20,245 --> 00:41:21,945
It makes so much sense to me.

695
00:41:22,215 --> 00:41:26,415
And so when I'm trying to forge
engagement, I try very hard

696
00:41:26,655 --> 00:41:30,085
to incorporate whether I'm at
work or otherwise, some sort of

697
00:41:30,085 --> 00:41:31,535
appreciation of beauty and excellence.

698
00:41:31,825 --> 00:41:32,865
That could be in a report.

699
00:41:33,955 --> 00:41:37,135
It could be in the mountains
when I go hiking on weekends.

700
00:41:37,685 --> 00:41:40,185
It could be so many other
things, but that's the E.

701
00:41:40,425 --> 00:41:44,235
The R is relationships and it
can't just be any relationships.

702
00:41:44,434 --> 00:41:46,915
It has to be positive relationships.

703
00:41:47,035 --> 00:41:49,495
Oh, let me go back to the
engagement for, I'm so sorry.

704
00:41:50,074 --> 00:41:53,524
Appreciation of beauty and excellence
for me when I'm running is the

705
00:41:53,525 --> 00:41:55,555
appreciation of that I get to run outside.

706
00:41:55,565 --> 00:41:56,835
I only like to run outside.

707
00:41:56,835 --> 00:41:58,135
I don't like running on a treadmill.

708
00:41:58,135 --> 00:41:59,095
That's just my preference.

709
00:41:59,545 --> 00:42:02,885
And the reason why is because it's so
beautiful, especially here in Denver.

710
00:42:03,375 --> 00:42:07,125
To run around outside the ours
relationships and there has to be good

711
00:42:07,315 --> 00:42:12,595
positive relationships And it can happen
many different ways, but for running

712
00:42:12,605 --> 00:42:16,135
it's building that community Just like
in the arts where you have a running

713
00:42:16,135 --> 00:42:20,575
community, even if you run by yourself
Because then you can go online and talk to

714
00:42:20,575 --> 00:42:22,735
people about, Oh, hey, what's your pace?

715
00:42:22,925 --> 00:42:25,315
What kind of, do you listen
to music or do you not?

716
00:42:25,375 --> 00:42:29,095
All those little things you get to
learn, even if it's not happening

717
00:42:29,095 --> 00:42:30,454
in real time with other people.

718
00:42:30,505 --> 00:42:32,244
Those are the relationships you forge.

719
00:42:32,864 --> 00:42:37,584
M is meaning and meaning is just that
you need to live for more than yourself.

720
00:42:37,815 --> 00:42:39,435
So this could go back to the community.

721
00:42:39,465 --> 00:42:43,395
This could be something like my
justification for running is for my

722
00:42:43,395 --> 00:42:45,335
partner so that I live a longer time.

723
00:42:45,355 --> 00:42:48,405
It can be for my parents who are aging
and I just want to be there for them.

724
00:42:48,625 --> 00:42:51,375
All sorts of things, but it
can't be for, for yourself.

725
00:42:51,434 --> 00:42:53,705
If you're engaging in
meeting, it has to be for.

726
00:42:54,120 --> 00:42:55,500
for something other than that.

727
00:42:55,960 --> 00:42:57,820
That's where spirituality
comes in as well.

728
00:42:58,150 --> 00:42:59,690
And then the A is Achievement.

729
00:42:59,740 --> 00:43:01,860
And this is, for running
it's a no brainer.

730
00:43:01,860 --> 00:43:04,610
When I finish that run, I feel
like I've achieved something.

731
00:43:05,090 --> 00:43:09,099
And in the arts, once you complete
a project, that's the achievement.

732
00:43:09,170 --> 00:43:13,540
I'm sure people in their mind, I'm hoping,
are already connecting it to their art.

733
00:43:13,890 --> 00:43:16,310
Running could be a form of art as well.

734
00:43:17,465 --> 00:43:18,295
It's a sport, right?

735
00:43:18,335 --> 00:43:19,505
Hopefully that's helpful.

736
00:43:19,545 --> 00:43:24,735
And there's many other things, but that's
my favorite model to use, implement,

737
00:43:24,735 --> 00:43:28,285
and talk about and to help other people
implement it in their lives as well.

738
00:43:28,355 --> 00:43:29,115
It works.

739
00:43:30,174 --> 00:43:33,675
The caveat here is you want to
try to get something in your life.

740
00:43:34,140 --> 00:43:35,680
That hits on every aspect.

741
00:43:35,930 --> 00:43:37,190
It's not always possible.

742
00:43:37,190 --> 00:43:39,550
So even if you just get
two or three, that's fine.

743
00:43:39,760 --> 00:43:42,699
The point is to just try things
at the challenge yourself

744
00:43:42,840 --> 00:43:44,090
to hit on all the aspects

745
00:43:44,090 --> 00:43:44,399
of per

746
00:43:44,399 --> 00:43:44,649
month.

747
00:43:44,790 --> 00:43:46,460
I've hit almost all of them.

748
00:43:46,470 --> 00:43:49,140
Relationships is the thing
that I'm working on the most.

749
00:43:49,189 --> 00:43:50,159
That's my weakest one.

750
00:43:50,159 --> 00:43:54,040
I can tell you that right now, but
I'm listening to this going, and

751
00:43:54,040 --> 00:43:58,150
especially the achievement part at
the end, it's getting that project

752
00:43:58,270 --> 00:44:03,520
on whatever it is, doesn't have to be
perfect, but it's just, I did this.

753
00:44:03,639 --> 00:44:04,570
I made this.

754
00:44:04,940 --> 00:44:09,200
I've got art all over my wall, as you can
see here, and it's not what it looks like.

755
00:44:09,740 --> 00:44:13,220
A fourth Corridor on crack painted
it, and I'm okay with that.

756
00:44:13,609 --> 00:44:14,099
It's fun.

757
00:44:14,630 --> 00:44:15,790
It's in my office.

758
00:44:16,270 --> 00:44:18,640
Some of them have actually
been shown in galleries.

759
00:44:18,869 --> 00:44:21,180
That's why they're in my office,
because they haven't been bought.

760
00:44:21,890 --> 00:44:24,510
But I look at it, and I go, I did that.

761
00:44:24,990 --> 00:44:28,910
Most people that I know that I've
worked with, they don't do art.

762
00:44:28,960 --> 00:44:30,450
They don't write books.

763
00:44:30,480 --> 00:44:31,690
They don't make music.

764
00:44:32,305 --> 00:44:39,665
It'll do podcasts, podcast guy says that
achievement really, and I think sometimes

765
00:44:39,665 --> 00:44:44,745
when people are first getting into art,
they focus maybe a little bit too much

766
00:44:44,755 --> 00:44:50,744
on that achievement versus the others
because to me it feels, and I'm not a

767
00:44:50,745 --> 00:44:55,965
psychologist, nor do I play one on TV or
on this podcast, but it seems to be like

768
00:44:55,995 --> 00:44:58,295
a lot of this builds upon each other.

769
00:44:58,800 --> 00:45:03,440
And then when you pay for achievement,
if you've got your other jobs in a row or

770
00:45:03,480 --> 00:45:09,039
most in a decent spot, that achievement
is going to be so much better at the end.

771
00:45:09,650 --> 00:45:12,240
I don't, I'm just going
to see it or education.

772
00:45:14,660 --> 00:45:17,250
Yeah, no, I think that's absolutely right.

773
00:45:17,300 --> 00:45:22,220
And in some models, they elongated
the perm model to say perm of Z.

774
00:45:22,260 --> 00:45:26,520
And just real quickly, that would be a
vitality, but there's arguments out there

775
00:45:26,530 --> 00:45:30,390
that vitality could actually be lumped
into some of the other elements of permo.

776
00:45:30,840 --> 00:45:34,740
And then there's arguments that say the
opposite, that no, the V is important,

777
00:45:34,760 --> 00:45:36,640
an important addition to the model.

778
00:45:36,640 --> 00:45:41,330
So, at the end of the day, regardless
of how you practice or what you think,

779
00:45:41,339 --> 00:45:44,280
if it's all aspects of PERMA V, etc.

780
00:45:44,809 --> 00:45:49,739
The point is really that what you
were saying, it's not, if you're just

781
00:45:49,740 --> 00:45:55,070
fixated on one aspect, it's truly
not going to give you as much well

782
00:45:55,080 --> 00:45:56,490
being and flourishing in your life.

783
00:45:56,870 --> 00:46:01,590
Then if you open that up to all the
other aspects that exist, so I think

784
00:46:01,590 --> 00:46:02,770
that's really what the point is.

785
00:46:02,770 --> 00:46:05,110
It's just looking at things
through a different lens.

786
00:46:05,120 --> 00:46:08,780
So you could say, what am I naturally
gravitating towards is really

787
00:46:08,780 --> 00:46:10,259
good at doing like achievement.

788
00:46:10,730 --> 00:46:13,569
And then where are my
opportunities for development?

789
00:46:13,580 --> 00:46:16,339
And maybe I just don't engage very much.

790
00:46:16,379 --> 00:46:19,720
And that's the part where
I've worked a nine to five.

791
00:46:19,750 --> 00:46:23,265
Now I have this other, Job
that I'm giving myself.

792
00:46:23,555 --> 00:46:24,815
How do I engage in this?

793
00:46:25,265 --> 00:46:29,175
And again, going back to what are your
inner strengths and how do you make

794
00:46:29,215 --> 00:46:32,235
that kind of happen in front of you?

795
00:46:32,565 --> 00:46:37,474
It's easier said than done because
it also takes a good understanding

796
00:46:37,495 --> 00:46:39,514
of what makes you tick, right?

797
00:46:40,415 --> 00:46:43,594
And we think we know ourselves because
we were like, Oh yeah, I've been with

798
00:46:43,595 --> 00:46:45,282
myself for as long as I've been alive.

799
00:46:45,282 --> 00:46:46,425
I should know myself.

800
00:46:47,345 --> 00:46:51,145
But we tend to lie to ourselves a
lot more often than we even realize.

801
00:46:51,805 --> 00:46:54,695
And on top of that, it's not only
about the lies that we tell ourselves.

802
00:46:54,725 --> 00:46:58,615
It's the lies that are given to us out
in the mass market and in the media.

803
00:46:59,065 --> 00:47:03,164
And I'm not talking about the political
lies that are intentional to try to

804
00:47:03,204 --> 00:47:05,485
change us in some way, shape or form.

805
00:47:05,895 --> 00:47:12,595
I'm talking about the general sort
of drumbeat of you must consume

806
00:47:12,815 --> 00:47:15,035
in order for your life to be.

807
00:47:15,310 --> 00:47:20,090
Good, you need more of this and
that, and I fall into that trap, even

808
00:47:20,100 --> 00:47:24,640
knowing that I shouldn't, that I'm
tied to my phone, as an example, and to

809
00:47:24,680 --> 00:47:30,150
technology, because it's intentionally
trying to keep me that way, and it

810
00:47:30,150 --> 00:47:34,234
works, because as much as we know, we
shouldn't be tied to all these things.

811
00:47:34,615 --> 00:47:37,935
We still are because that's
the psychology that's being

812
00:47:37,935 --> 00:47:40,285
used against us, unfortunately.

813
00:47:40,455 --> 00:47:42,645
And so we'd have to work
extra hard for that.

814
00:47:42,835 --> 00:47:49,975
And so how do we build in these moments in
our life that cut out the extraneous noise

815
00:47:50,025 --> 00:47:52,375
and allow to live through our values?

816
00:47:52,404 --> 00:47:53,864
That's super important.

817
00:47:54,414 --> 00:47:56,895
But if you don't know what those
values are, then you're lost

818
00:47:56,895 --> 00:47:57,825
and you don't know what to do.

819
00:47:57,845 --> 00:47:59,915
How do you validate something
that you're not sure about?

820
00:48:00,205 --> 00:48:03,024
And TikTok is not going to
tell you what your values are.

821
00:48:03,290 --> 00:48:06,640
I know I've been on TikTok for
a couple of years now, it hasn't

822
00:48:06,640 --> 00:48:07,940
told me what my values are.

823
00:48:09,800 --> 00:48:14,160
Now, the algorithm is telling me what
I'm interested in, supposedly, or

824
00:48:14,219 --> 00:48:15,580
what they think I'm interested in.

825
00:48:16,725 --> 00:48:17,965
It doesn't tell me what my values are.

826
00:48:18,015 --> 00:48:20,245
Maybe I need to start up a
TikTok channel that does that.

827
00:48:21,225 --> 00:48:24,025
And one of the tools to do that, if
you don't want to take an assessment

828
00:48:24,025 --> 00:48:26,035
as an example, is to ask the five whys.

829
00:48:26,545 --> 00:48:27,855
This is a simple thing.

830
00:48:28,425 --> 00:48:31,764
And they use the number five, but it
could be more or less than that number.

831
00:48:31,765 --> 00:48:33,985
And it's simply treating
yourself like a little kid.

832
00:48:34,034 --> 00:48:37,824
You say something like, I
really love painting pastels.

833
00:48:38,245 --> 00:48:41,545
And when I do, I love
painting mountains in pastels.

834
00:48:42,095 --> 00:48:42,785
Okay, great.

835
00:48:43,015 --> 00:48:46,395
So that's an interest, like something
that you would find on social media

836
00:48:46,395 --> 00:48:49,075
that would confirm your interest because
you think it's beautiful or whatever

837
00:48:49,075 --> 00:48:50,955
and that you find it fascinating.

838
00:48:51,715 --> 00:48:52,215
Why?

839
00:48:53,344 --> 00:48:55,405
And then when you answer
that question, why?

840
00:48:55,874 --> 00:48:56,665
Just like a little kid.

841
00:48:57,074 --> 00:49:00,785
Keep asking that question until
you get to the underlying reason.

842
00:49:01,005 --> 00:49:01,715
That's a value.

843
00:49:03,054 --> 00:49:04,345
That's what's motivating you.

844
00:49:04,545 --> 00:49:08,475
And it's also really important because
what happens the day that I can't

845
00:49:08,485 --> 00:49:11,185
run for whatever reason, which I
hope never happens, knock on wood.

846
00:49:11,215 --> 00:49:16,605
As we get older, Sometimes it could
be not because we can't do it from

847
00:49:16,615 --> 00:49:19,505
a physical standpoint, but it could
be because interests change, we're

848
00:49:19,505 --> 00:49:22,905
getting older, whatever the case
might be, we have children now.

849
00:49:23,745 --> 00:49:29,255
Once we get to the core of our values
as to why we're so interested in things,

850
00:49:29,725 --> 00:49:35,605
it opens up doorways so that you don't
have to do this one particular thing

851
00:49:35,615 --> 00:49:38,625
in pastels and it has to be a mountain.

852
00:49:38,625 --> 00:49:40,925
It could be that.

853
00:49:41,435 --> 00:49:43,685
But it could also be all these
other things that hit on that

854
00:49:43,685 --> 00:49:45,195
very same underlying thing.

855
00:49:46,195 --> 00:49:48,015
That's so important for us to understand.

856
00:49:48,845 --> 00:49:53,245
That is, I, I remember when I first
started writing poetry, it had to be four

857
00:49:53,245 --> 00:49:55,365
line stanzas, everything had to line.

858
00:49:56,195 --> 00:49:58,865
Yeah, because I learned
it from, from church.

859
00:49:58,874 --> 00:50:02,435
You have the hymns that you're
singing, four stanzas, four

860
00:50:02,435 --> 00:50:03,795
lines and all that kind of stuff.

861
00:50:04,335 --> 00:50:09,215
And when I got deeper into
my practice, I took grocery

862
00:50:09,215 --> 00:50:12,005
lists and said, that's a poem.

863
00:50:12,005 --> 00:50:13,695
And then I performed it
in front of an audience.

864
00:50:13,695 --> 00:50:13,805
And

865
00:50:16,515 --> 00:50:19,205
what the hell this,
they scratch their head.

866
00:50:19,215 --> 00:50:20,375
They didn't throw tomatoes at me.

867
00:50:20,375 --> 00:50:21,005
Thank God.

868
00:50:21,265 --> 00:50:23,484
Cause I bought all the tomatoes
from the grocery store earlier,

869
00:50:23,484 --> 00:50:25,175
but he's reading his grocery list.

870
00:50:25,484 --> 00:50:26,355
Yes, I am.

871
00:50:26,475 --> 00:50:27,155
Enjoy.

872
00:50:27,535 --> 00:50:28,385
And it's been.

873
00:50:29,355 --> 00:50:31,095
It's so great to be able to do that.

874
00:50:31,845 --> 00:50:35,245
I write about a million things, but
that was one of my favorite things to

875
00:50:35,245 --> 00:50:40,255
do is to break out of that mold and
to explore, because in the world of

876
00:50:40,255 --> 00:50:44,495
the arts, if you're just even just
looking at theater, it just that no,

877
00:50:44,525 --> 00:50:50,044
well, we're in it to explore musical
theater, which I'm not a huge fan

878
00:50:50,064 --> 00:50:51,884
of, but that's what I'm able to do.

879
00:50:52,594 --> 00:50:56,855
And dramas and comedy,
there's so much to explore.

880
00:50:56,865 --> 00:50:59,044
Why limit yourself just to.

881
00:50:59,470 --> 00:51:03,850
In the pastels of the mountains,
in Colorado, in Denver.

882
00:51:04,060 --> 00:51:07,470
I love this because this brings me
back to why I said performance art.

883
00:51:08,759 --> 00:51:12,715
If I can't do theater, I have
to do a presentation at work

884
00:51:12,715 --> 00:51:14,185
more than likely at some point.

885
00:51:14,435 --> 00:51:17,535
Every quarter, there's going to be
at least one, sometimes several.

886
00:51:18,205 --> 00:51:19,405
That's my performance.

887
00:51:19,545 --> 00:51:21,995
It's not the same, but it is the same.

888
00:51:22,165 --> 00:51:22,675
You know what I mean?

889
00:51:22,675 --> 00:51:25,234
It's that's where that
synergistic mindset comes back.

890
00:51:25,234 --> 00:51:28,224
And it says, I can memorize a monologue.

891
00:51:29,305 --> 00:51:31,285
I can actually create my own script here.

892
00:51:31,325 --> 00:51:33,245
It's going to be specific to my work.

893
00:51:33,685 --> 00:51:37,645
But this is my opportunity to
do some semblance of what I

894
00:51:37,645 --> 00:51:39,915
find so exciting in my life.

895
00:51:41,175 --> 00:51:42,375
It's easier said than done.

896
00:51:42,395 --> 00:51:46,205
If I'm a painter, as an example,
it's probably a little bit harder to

897
00:51:46,205 --> 00:51:48,154
find ways of painting, but maybe not.

898
00:51:48,194 --> 00:51:49,845
What's underlying the painting?

899
00:51:49,975 --> 00:51:51,605
Isn't the drawing itself?

900
00:51:52,155 --> 00:51:55,555
Is it maybe there's more tactile things
that you could do at work that's going

901
00:51:55,555 --> 00:52:01,374
to satiate your need for being on top
of that or being engaged in that until

902
00:52:01,374 --> 00:52:03,585
you're able to do that thing again.

903
00:52:04,425 --> 00:52:05,445
But as artists.

904
00:52:05,895 --> 00:52:08,635
We're doing this because
it's in our blood, right?

905
00:52:08,695 --> 00:52:10,295
This is how we operate.

906
00:52:10,305 --> 00:52:11,705
This is how we thrive.

907
00:52:11,745 --> 00:52:17,725
And so I think it behooves us to
take the time to understand the

908
00:52:17,725 --> 00:52:21,025
commonalities that exist so that
we can recreate these moments.

909
00:52:21,560 --> 00:52:26,520
Uh, instead of taking it as like our
lives are separated between our nine

910
00:52:26,520 --> 00:52:30,240
to five so that we can allow ourselves
to do things that we really want to do.

911
00:52:30,640 --> 00:52:30,980
Dr.

912
00:52:30,980 --> 00:52:32,760
Josh, what is next for you?

913
00:52:32,890 --> 00:52:36,240
Uh, we, we, we have this book out,
are, are, are we looking at another

914
00:52:36,240 --> 00:52:38,430
book, uh, coming out anytime soon?

915
00:52:38,609 --> 00:52:43,530
You talked about doing the course
and, uh, and, and, uh, doing a play,

916
00:52:43,530 --> 00:52:46,090
uh, do you have another book in you?

917
00:52:46,540 --> 00:52:47,120
Oh yeah.

918
00:52:47,180 --> 00:52:48,390
I have a few more books.

919
00:52:48,390 --> 00:52:48,700
Thanks.

920
00:52:48,700 --> 00:52:48,719
Thanks.

921
00:52:50,150 --> 00:52:55,830
I think at this point, it's me
getting myself to sit down like I did

922
00:52:55,840 --> 00:52:58,869
before and dedicate the time for it.

923
00:52:58,880 --> 00:53:04,959
And with this, uh, play that I'll be
engaging in for at least the next month

924
00:53:04,960 --> 00:53:07,950
and a half, that'll take up the time.

925
00:53:07,959 --> 00:53:12,230
And then, yeah, we'll see, like I'm in
no rush to get more books out, but I

926
00:53:12,230 --> 00:53:14,340
definitely do have them living within me.

927
00:53:14,840 --> 00:53:20,945
And I do know this, that Until
the day I die, I dedicated, I have

928
00:53:20,955 --> 00:53:24,365
dedicated my life to being an artist.

929
00:53:24,485 --> 00:53:27,935
Performance art just happens to
be the thing that I gravitate

930
00:53:27,935 --> 00:53:32,705
towards, but writing a book is
also, like I said, a form of art.

931
00:53:33,315 --> 00:53:37,365
And I will continue to look for different
ways that I could just continue being an

932
00:53:37,375 --> 00:53:45,415
artist and help people to be motivated
and experience things that allow them to

933
00:53:45,424 --> 00:53:47,095
see that they're not alone in this world.

934
00:53:47,690 --> 00:53:52,170
Any bits of advice or anything that you
wish you could have told yourself when

935
00:53:52,170 --> 00:53:57,359
you first recognized that you were an
artist, that you're sitting here, uh,

936
00:53:57,410 --> 00:54:01,860
at the young age of 47, that you would
like to know back when you were 18.

937
00:54:02,809 --> 00:54:04,930
Yeah, it's a great question.

938
00:54:04,940 --> 00:54:08,450
I think go ahead and have, go ahead
and have your goals and aspirations.

939
00:54:09,620 --> 00:54:15,020
Go ahead and dream, reach
for the stars, but be okay.

940
00:54:15,560 --> 00:54:21,020
With the realities that life doesn't
always pan out exactly the way you wish

941
00:54:21,090 --> 00:54:28,290
or think it should and that's okay and
Accepting that can be some of the most

942
00:54:28,570 --> 00:54:33,849
beautiful moments in your life Because
again, whether you call it the universe or

943
00:54:33,850 --> 00:54:39,660
something else You being given something
as a learning lesson that you can absorb

944
00:54:39,700 --> 00:54:45,020
and take with you And it may not be
exactly what you wished it would be but

945
00:54:45,020 --> 00:54:50,605
it's what you have And it's probably more
than a lot of other people wish they had.

946
00:54:50,985 --> 00:54:56,495
So that mindfulness comes into play
where you're able to just look at

947
00:54:56,685 --> 00:55:00,964
what's happening in the moment in
front of you and be appreciative of

948
00:55:00,965 --> 00:55:05,265
that, regardless of what you wish it
could have been or should have been.

949
00:55:05,535 --> 00:55:06,315
That's awesome.

950
00:55:06,825 --> 00:55:07,175
Dr.

951
00:55:07,175 --> 00:55:10,195
Josh, thank you so very
much for being on the show.

952
00:55:10,195 --> 00:55:16,774
And just for being the genuine
you, I can, yeah, we're doing this

953
00:55:16,805 --> 00:55:18,975
via video, but I'm just like, man.

954
00:55:19,890 --> 00:55:21,560
I need to go out and
give this guy a big hug.

955
00:55:21,770 --> 00:55:22,940
Thank you very much.

956
00:55:22,960 --> 00:55:23,750
Thank you so much.

957
00:55:23,750 --> 00:55:24,870
That's very kind of you.

958
00:55:24,930 --> 00:55:27,730
And it's been an honor
and a pleasure to be here.

959
00:55:27,740 --> 00:55:29,700
Thank you so much for
having me on the show.

960
00:55:31,220 --> 00:55:31,670
All right.

961
00:55:31,690 --> 00:55:33,239
That's my interview with Dr.

962
00:55:33,239 --> 00:55:34,440
Joshua Caraballo.

963
00:55:34,910 --> 00:55:36,539
Want to thank him so much.

964
00:55:36,665 --> 00:55:39,895
For all the insight that he
gave us in this interview,

965
00:55:40,435 --> 00:55:41,845
definitely check out his book.

966
00:55:41,885 --> 00:55:43,055
I'm not dead yet.

967
00:55:43,435 --> 00:55:48,005
And, uh, while you're looking
at that book, go and watch

968
00:55:48,365 --> 00:55:50,075
Monty Python's Holy grail.

969
00:55:50,545 --> 00:55:54,695
You'll understand some of the inside
jokes that we had in this interview,

970
00:55:54,745 --> 00:55:56,124
uh, after you're watching that.

971
00:55:57,095 --> 00:56:01,185
So something new that I'm doing here
is, and that I'm trying out anyways,

972
00:56:01,205 --> 00:56:06,325
is a couple of affiliate links
that I have for you to check out.

973
00:56:06,755 --> 00:56:08,725
The first one is with pod match.

974
00:56:08,975 --> 00:56:14,044
Now, if you're a podcaster looking
for guests, or if you're thinking

975
00:56:14,055 --> 00:56:17,915
about becoming a podcaster and
you're like, well, where am

976
00:56:17,915 --> 00:56:18,905
I going to get these guests?

977
00:56:18,905 --> 00:56:21,755
Like Tim gets, you can go to pod match.

978
00:56:21,940 --> 00:56:25,540
I have my affiliate link there, so
definitely use my affiliate link

979
00:56:25,640 --> 00:56:27,210
when you join up with Podmatch.

980
00:56:27,980 --> 00:56:34,629
And if you are wanting to be a guest on
podcasts, well, obviously you can reach

981
00:56:34,630 --> 00:56:37,319
out to me, Timothy at createartpodcast.

982
00:56:37,349 --> 00:56:42,160
com, or you can go into Podmatch
and sign up for their service.

983
00:56:42,525 --> 00:56:47,185
And be a, a guest on a number of
podcasts that are gonna be matched

984
00:56:47,245 --> 00:56:50,485
with you and with what you're
interested in talking about.

985
00:56:51,815 --> 00:56:57,765
Now, if you like the website that
you're seeing this podcast on and the

986
00:56:57,765 --> 00:57:04,065
website is create art podcast.com,
I use what's called pod page and I

987
00:57:04,065 --> 00:57:05,865
have affiliate link there with them.

988
00:57:06,435 --> 00:57:07,395
Here's the secret folks.

989
00:57:08,105 --> 00:57:10,225
I don't know how to code websites.

990
00:57:10,395 --> 00:57:14,175
I kind of do, but I'm, I'm a
little bit dangerous with it.

991
00:57:14,185 --> 00:57:20,955
So I let them go ahead and do my
websites and they come out really good.

992
00:57:20,975 --> 00:57:21,975
I really enjoy them.

993
00:57:21,975 --> 00:57:24,044
There's a lot of tools in
there that you can use.

994
00:57:24,624 --> 00:57:27,565
And, uh, one of the favorite
tools that I like that.

995
00:57:28,355 --> 00:57:33,375
Unfortunately, not a lot of people
are using is the voicemail tool so you

996
00:57:33,375 --> 00:57:35,695
can go to my website createartpodcast.

997
00:57:35,715 --> 00:57:43,125
com slash voicemail and you can leave
me a voicemail and let me know how I'm

998
00:57:43,125 --> 00:57:48,335
doing, how you enjoyed the interview,
any, anything that you want to put there.

999
00:57:48,814 --> 00:57:52,215
Definitely check out the website
and check out the voicemail.

1000
00:57:52,495 --> 00:57:57,105
Would definitely love to hear
from you and all you got to do.

1001
00:57:57,730 --> 00:57:58,850
Create our podcast.

1002
00:57:58,870 --> 00:58:02,810
com slash voicemail, and you
can be featured on this show.

1003
00:58:04,325 --> 00:58:07,685
My last thing that I want to
talk about is sharing the show.

1004
00:58:07,815 --> 00:58:11,065
Now, definitely I would love it if
you shared the show with your friends.

1005
00:58:11,485 --> 00:58:15,324
If you want to give it a five
star review or whatever review

1006
00:58:15,344 --> 00:58:19,394
on your podcast app of choice, by
all means, go ahead and do that.

1007
00:58:19,794 --> 00:58:23,724
But the way I share the
show is with pod beacon.

1008
00:58:24,484 --> 00:58:29,475
Now pod beacon has
technology in wristwatches.

1009
00:58:29,535 --> 00:58:30,715
Well, I call them wristwatches.

1010
00:58:30,765 --> 00:58:34,415
They also have key fobs and a number
of other objects that you can use.

1011
00:58:35,190 --> 00:58:38,330
And they're using NFC technology.

1012
00:58:38,780 --> 00:58:41,940
So that way somebody can put
their phone over your wristwatch.

1013
00:58:42,635 --> 00:58:47,255
And it'll automatically take
their phone right to your website

1014
00:58:47,385 --> 00:58:48,505
where you want them to go.

1015
00:58:48,505 --> 00:58:52,515
So if you have a podcast out there,
definitely check that out for yourself.

1016
00:58:52,945 --> 00:58:54,865
It's a great service.

1017
00:58:55,174 --> 00:58:57,474
And I have an affiliate
link for that as well.

1018
00:58:57,485 --> 00:59:00,745
So if that's something that
you're interested in, definitely

1019
00:59:00,745 --> 00:59:05,125
check out the affiliate link and
check out podcast beacon and all

1020
00:59:05,125 --> 00:59:10,430
their wonderful objects, tools,
wristwatches, key fobs, what have you.

1021
00:59:10,640 --> 00:59:12,800
So that way you can share your podcast.

1022
00:59:13,820 --> 00:59:14,160
All right.

1023
00:59:14,190 --> 00:59:17,549
Enough of the affiliate links
and all that kind of good stuff.

1024
00:59:18,090 --> 00:59:22,160
I want to thank you for listening
in to create our podcast.

1025
00:59:22,200 --> 00:59:25,840
I do make this show for
you and with you in mind.

1026
00:59:26,400 --> 00:59:27,970
So if you have ideas.

1027
00:59:28,515 --> 00:59:34,655
Thoughts, critiques, what have you, you
can email me timothyatcreateartpodcast.

1028
00:59:34,695 --> 00:59:39,984
com be happy to read what you, uh,
would like to hear more of, or if

1029
00:59:39,984 --> 00:59:43,465
you'd like to be a guest, definitely
you can reach out to me through there.

1030
00:59:43,684 --> 00:59:48,145
Again, if you're looking to do
a lot of podcasts, try Podmatch.

1031
00:59:48,145 --> 00:59:49,215
I think you'll really enjoy it.

1032
00:59:50,610 --> 00:59:54,950
I do run a another podcast called find
a podcast about, and you can find that

1033
00:59:54,950 --> 00:59:57,560
at find a podcast about dot X, Y, Z.

1034
00:59:58,270 --> 01:00:01,490
And it has all the same features
that create our podcast does.

1035
01:00:01,490 --> 01:00:06,130
You can leave voicemails there and
reviews and all that kind of good stuff.

1036
01:00:06,780 --> 01:00:11,880
But in find a podcast about what I do
is I search through all the podcasts

1037
01:00:11,890 --> 01:00:15,820
that I can find and bring you the
ones that are the most binge worthy,

1038
01:00:16,090 --> 01:00:18,110
thereby saving you a lot of time.

1039
01:00:18,845 --> 01:00:24,545
And, you know, giving
you a real personalized.

1040
01:00:25,190 --> 01:00:28,550
Review of these podcasts that
I think are very important.

1041
01:00:28,720 --> 01:00:30,220
So check that out for yourself.

1042
01:00:31,290 --> 01:00:35,189
Now, all this is made
possible by TKB studios.

1043
01:00:35,710 --> 01:00:41,490
And that is my podcast production
company where I help people go through

1044
01:00:41,659 --> 01:00:47,230
all the noise that's out there and
cut through it and produce wonderful

1045
01:00:47,290 --> 01:00:51,630
podcasts for you and your business.

1046
01:00:52,230 --> 01:00:56,960
Your projects, what have you,
I can help you out with that.

1047
01:00:58,320 --> 01:00:58,590
All right.

1048
01:00:58,600 --> 01:00:59,830
That's all I have for you today.

1049
01:01:00,230 --> 01:01:01,970
I hope this was enjoyable for you.

1050
01:01:02,030 --> 01:01:04,960
I know it was, I know this conversation
was really enjoyable for me.

1051
01:01:05,979 --> 01:01:09,620
So now it's time for you to go
out there, tame that inner critic,

1052
01:01:10,560 --> 01:01:12,370
create more than you can see.

1053
01:01:12,370 --> 01:01:15,559
Go out there, make some art
for somebody you love yourself.

1054
01:01:15,559 --> 01:01:17,490
I'll talk to you next time.