Foreign.

Hello and welcome back to Worship Leader Pod.

I'm Amber Fugate, your host, and I am super excited about this episode because I'm kind of nearing down to the end of season one.

Woo.

Woo.

Super excited about that.

But the last couple of episodes that I'm getting ready to record and it's been such an amazing ride and it's been super encouraging and exciting and yeah, just been so good.

And so as I'm getting ready to end season one, I'm super excited to have a really good friend of mine in the studio in the house.

But before we get to that, I just wanted to say a huge thank you to everybody who's followed the journey.

Listened to a couple episodes here, there, or just follow my journey on social media, YouTube.

It means the world to me and it's so cool to be able to know that this podcast and these episodes are literally going all over the world.

Like, it blows my mind.

But what I know about God is that he does so much with a yes.

When we say yes to him, he does more than what we could ever imagine.

And so me saying yes to this podcast really has done amazing things.

Even in my own personal life, I've just seen God move in my life and it's just been so amazing.

So thank you everyone who's been.

Who have been listening and who have been liking all the things and subscribing and all the things.

I thank you so much for that.

And so I'm really excited because as we get ready to end season one, I'm preparing for season two.

And so I'm like thinking about all the things that we could talk about, guests that I could bring on, or just things on my heart that maybe God's tucked away that I forgot about.

And so I'm looking forward to season two.

It is going to be awesome.

And I hope you come along for The Ride Season 2 sometime in the fall, be released.

And so I'm super excited about that.

Okay.

Sorry, I'm babbling, but it's okay.

One big thing I did want to mention is when I started the podcast, I knew that God was gonna morph it to something bigger.

Right?

We serve a God who is the same yesterday, today, and forevermore.

But the scripture says that he is always doing a new thing.

And I believe that even in this podcast, God is calling even me personally deeper, but broadening some things.

And so season two will actually be a name.

And I don't think I'm gonna share the name just yet, but I am gonna release it on all social media and in my newsletter.

So if you wanna follow along, you wanna be up to date, follow Worship Leader Pod on Instagram and Facebook, YouTube and TikTok.

Or you can go to worshipleaderpod.com and subscribe to our newsletter and you'll get all the details.

But there's some changes coming.

There's some cool things that God's revealing to me, and I cannot wait to share them with you.

Okay, so let's get into it.

Okay.

So I have a really good friend of mine, Jenny Rohr.

Man, we just.

We go back.

We literally go back.

History.

It's good history, too.

And it's.

Anyways, I'm just super excited.

Jenny is a sweet, sweet friend of mine.

She is an amazing singer, worship leader, songwriter.

I mean, lyricist.

She's, like, so poetic with her words.

I don't even know how you do it, Jenny, but I know that you.

Oh, we went to the same church for a while.

Then she transitioned to Radian Church and Kalamazoo, which, if you remember, there's a couple episodes back, Caleb Culver and Rachel Culver were on the podcast.

They are also from Radiant Church.

And so I just basically just took everyone.

I just love Radiant Church.

Like, they're just amazing.

But I love the people there.

But I've known Jenny before Radiant.

So she got planted in Radiant, and it's just been.

Can I just say, Jenny, I feel like you have a glow about you.

It's not about, like, the church or anything like that.

I can tell that you are so in love with Jesus.

Like, it is a glow.

I think.

Like, when I saw you at the women's conference, I was like, this is a different Jenny.

And I.

And I say that to.

Not even to boast you up, but to know that your time spent with the Lord, the hard times, things with family, things with dynamic of church and all the things in between.

Like, you can tell, you've just been so present with the Lord.

And so I just wanna honor you in that because I.

Like, we've kind of been through.

We've been to the same church.

We.

I mean, we worked together at the church.

We were on worship.

I mean, we were on the worship team.

That's crazy.

We led worship together.

We, like, helped with youth.

Like, we did all the things.

Yes.

And so it's like, I've seen a side.

I've seen you grow.

But now I'm like, whoo.

This is a different Jenny.

And so when we reconnected at the conference, I was like, I just want to keep talking to her.

Yeah.

And so this is, like, a very extreme, expensive way to have a conversation with you is to invite you to the podcast.

Worth it.

Worth it.

It.

But I feel like you just have so many amazing things I know you're going to share.

And so, Amber, I'm really excited, and I know that you have been so diligent.

I do want to talk about this, because I'm so curious.

You're so diligent in your songwriting and your process, and I know, and I get it.

So I'm, like, so curious because you.

You released a bunch of, well, songs, ep, couple singles a couple years ago, and then you kind of were like, I got off of social media because it kind of stresses me out.

And then you got back on, and you just went crazy.

And everyone's like, well, Jen, you just made some new music.

And I'm like, it's been out for a while.

But I think she just was, like, going for it.

But I love it.

Yeah.

And I've, like, had it pop up on my Spotify, and I just, like, I was like, I know that voice, and I've just loved seeing that.

But I'm from being in the same community as you at one point, like, I know, like, how intentional you are with your lyrics and your words and songwriting that I'm like, how do you keep.

Tell me, how do you keep being diligent and steadfast in songwriting?

Like, where did that even come from?

And like, to keep doing it because it's hard.

It's very, very hard.

And I.

My ADHD does not do well.

I'm like, see my notes.

You should see my notes in my phone.

They're all over the place.

Yeah.

Wait, before I get into that, too, I just want to say, too, like, I feel.

I actually feel so honored to be here.

And I was just talking to a friend about this the other week of, like, it is so fun to your friends.

Step into their calling and gifting and their strengths.

And, like, I'm just.

I honor you and you stepping out in obedience and doing this, and it's scary putting your voice out there.

So you're doing it, too.

And it feels.

It just feels cool to, like, rub shoulders with you and just feel like, yeah, we get to do this.

So, so cool to be reunited at the conference and then also to just be like, oh, look at how God brings people back in different seasons.

It's very special.

So thank you for having me.

Yes, absolutely.

I love it all.

Honor is mine.

Ah, so fun.

Hopefully we can do this Again, yes.

Songwriting man.

I.

Here's the truth.

I don't know what I'm doing.

Like, I really have no clue.

I am just.

I'm always written.

So I'm just a writer, I'm a journaler, all these things.

And I feel like.

So this is really special to me.

But since I was really little, my dad would call me songbird.

And so I think, you know, it really matters.

First of all, it really matters what you speak over your kids.

Yeah, I just sang.

Cause it was fun and all these things really.

I think my dad was like, I have memory of him calling me songbird over even calling me my name.

Wow.

I just remember that.

But it's like you are prophesying over my future.

And maybe I've.

I'm just starting to.

I'm.

I think I'm just starting to receive that and accept that too.

So I'm growing, I'm learning.

But I write all the time and I just some.

That's how I communicate with God.

That's how I've always.

So I've got.

I'm always in moments of inspiration or if the Lord is speaking to me, or even if the Lord isn't speaking to me and life is just happening.

You'll just see me with my phone singing something or writing something down.

So many voice memos that have never been touched again.

Never been touched again.

Cuz I got all kinds of voice memos.

And how do you.

I don't know.

Then you go through them, you're like, oh yes, there's a spark.

And then you spend much time and then, then.

Then you go away.

It's like, it's really.

I don't know because I really am just beginning.

So.

Well, I'll start with this is that I love Pastor Caleb.

Love that you've had Pastor Caleb and Rachel.

They have been two really, really big cheerleaders for me.

When I haven't really seen it.

I have a super happy.

I would say I have a whole jukebox of songs on my phone.

Like, I remember I reached a thousand recordings.

Wow.

And I was like, that's awesome.

Like something feeling, something sacred and holy about the reality that like.

Like no one knows what's on those except for God.

And feeling too like, I'm fine with that.

I'm good with that.

Like that can be that.

And then as I started to like grow in relationship, Caleb actually was like, hey, you gotta do something with your songs.

So the other thing is that I would sing choruses or things that came up in meditation with the Lord, just like in our prayer room.

And so that's.

That's really where some of my songs saw the light of day was in the prayer room.

And so I think from that place, calling that out of me.

I was so thankful for him doing that, but it was kind of like, okay, I felt the, like, grace to just do it.

But also it was like blinders up, blind obedience.

I know nothing.

I.

We're gonna try this.

But there was a producer, Caleb Aldrich, Shout Out Aldi, who went to our church at the time too, and he was producing.

And so like, it just felt like the timing of that, the relationship of all of that.

And I got to work with him on the first project, which were a compilation of probably a decade of my heart.

Some of the.

Some of the ones I kept going back to.

So that's kind of it.

I feel like the Lord will just breathe on some songs and it's like, oh, there's something to that.

Or it's encouraging me.

Right.

Since I've written that record, I have been thankful that I have something, even for myself to remind myself, like, do you still believe this?

Do you still believe that?

And so that's been really cool.

But yeah, I just write everything and I'm still trying to grow in like, chronicling what's going on and grow in the discipline of songwriting.

And that's also hard.

And then take on another is like writing with other people.

Yeah.

When you write a lot by yourself and coming into co writing, it's like, oh, that's a whole another.

It really is challenge itself.

But it's actually so beautiful.

And I'm learning that it's so beautiful doing it with like, family and friends to like, bring what you have.

Like, this is what I have.

Do you have anything to add to this?

And that can make these beautiful songs.

But embracing, like, hey, I think this is something I get to do with God.

And I actually.

It's fun.

That's good.

Yeah.

I'm trying to really embrace the fun of just songwriting and being creative.

And oh, the Lord really spoke to me about his mercy today.

I just want to think about that.

Like, I'm going to.

About.

I'm just going to write around.

I'm going to write around that concept and see what happens.

I'm going to sing a little melody about that and sing it over myself.

And if it sticks, it sticks.

Like you're saying some stuff will never.

I'm like, oh, my gosh, I can't even.

Yeah.

And then you do the go through the recordings.

Yeah.

And you look at five years ago, it's like, yeah, what?

I'm going to pull that back up now.

And so I don't know.

I. I don't have a, like, system down, that's for sure.

Now if I think I can identify something that has life on it instead of just like, letting it go into the unknown, it's like, well, hold on a second.

Maybe there.

Maybe there really is something to this or.

Right.

Another thing that I've done is like, I'll as God will speak to me about things or life.

I just have to sing to, like, process it out.

Like, process it out with God.

And then it'll be like, hey, the Lord was speaking to me about what's.

What's.

So there's a song that I've written called Song of the Scars, and it's about being thankful, not.

Not waiting to the other side of the healing to thank God for what you're going through, but thanking him while you're in it.

And it was like a song that I was like, I've heard if you aren't thankful, like, you need to be thankful for your things you go through.

Like, God, I want.

I want to see God in this.

I don't want to miss him this moment.

So often you can.

Oh, the song Hindsight, I can see that now.

It's like, I kind of want to see it right now.

Sometimes I have to sing it to believe it.

So I was trying to write that song and then I had a friend, like, a couple months later share with me, like, some stuff that she was going through, and I was like, can I send you a song that I wrote?

And so instead of it feeling like, like, I haven't personally.

It's like, you're going to be an artist and you're going to do this.

I've never felt that.

Like, that's the call on my life.

I'm just.

I just have songs to sing sometimes and.

But it felt cool to have a song to give to a who's walking through grief or a friend who lost a baby.

And I have a song about how I'm a little jealous that she gets to be with Jesus.

Like, oh, like, can I just send this to you?

Like, these are my own thoughts, but, like, this is my.

What God is speaking to me about this.

But can I send this as an encouragement to you?

Yes.

And so that's been cool.

One of the songs, Hope is Never Wasted, is really special to my heart.

It's like, just waiting on the promises of God when it's hard.

And years, weeks, months, years go on.

And I have a friend in my life who is single also waiting for a husband and all these things.

And she before ever saw the light of day, she got to listen to that on repeat.

And she's like, that's my favorite song because it encourages me to keep on holding on.

I'm like, that's awesome.

If that's all these are for is just this few people to listen to and encourage.

It's like, that's great.

I love that.

I'll just offer it up and whatever happens, happens.

But I literally have no idea what I'm doing.

When I went to start to go through the process as an like, wow.

The world of being an artist, like, this is why people get signed.

So that everybody that knows what they're doing can just do it for them.

Yeah.

And it's like, it's insane.

It is insane.

Yeah.

So working on stuff right now and I feel the dread of like, I'm an independent artist and I will have to do that all over again.

And the social media thing, so annoying.

I just.

I know, but your feed looks so good.

I worked.

Really.

I can tell.

So good.

Shout out to dj.

She helped me through all of it.

I was like, please, please.

I'm like, this is like a story.

Without even clicking on the actual things, I'm like, oh, I can see what's happening already.

That's kind of the point and the goal.

She's helped me so much with that.

That's cool.

I might have to hit her up cuz I.

You literally should.

But I was thinking as you were talking about how like, you have like a credenza of like all these songs basically.

And the Lord reminded me of like, those are songs or those are stories of history.

Yes.

It's like you go back to history and you're like, right, I remember that, Lord.

And it's like, if it blesses you, then you release it.

It will bless someone else.

Because it's just such a beautiful picture.

Like songwriting in general, because it really is like, it's a gift.

You get to gift something.

Either you gift it to the Lord, it's a gift back to you.

Because he is the good giver of all gifts and it's for him, to him, to everything.

And then it's also a blessing to other people.

And it's just like a full circle of things.

That's why I think that whole thing is like, it's hard, but it's like, it's so Worth it, because it's beyond what you can even do because it spreads, you know, beyond what you think it would.

It's so true.

And, like, he's a music man.

Like, my father's a music man.

So I feel like I connect with my father when I make music.

I can.

I can quiet out every other noise in my life and every other thing when I enter into, like, okay, let's create together.

And, like, just like you probably love to sit with your kids and work on projects here, it's like, this is a memory.

This is something.

Like, even the creating process with him at the center is like.

It's actually just so fun.

It is fun.

And I think I, like, resisted that for a long time because I think I. I had a really weird view of what it means to have fun.

Like, everything is so serious and has to be so, like, intensely holy.

And, like, what does that even really mean?

And I have to be really, really careful.

And it's like, no, like, God is just fun.

He spoke.

And that's what's holding this, all of this together right now.

The creation together.

There's sound that is holding us together and keeping us together.

And it's His.

It's his word.

Yeah.

And to tap into that for just, like, a micro moment in the whole line of eternity is like, oh, that's pretty special.

And he's, like, engaging with me in real time.

Or, like, you know, if some.

If God's speaking to you about something, and I know you do this, but, like, process out, like, singing it in the car or something.

And it's like, life is going on around you and blah, blah, blah, blah.

And then it's like, now I'm taking a shower and I'm remembering, oh, wait, what was that you were saying again?

You just pick back up again.

It's like, it just makes me feel so connected to my creator when I get to do that.

And it's affirming, though, like, I'm made in his image.

He's a creator.

I was made to create.

And so it's like, oh, why would I not do this?

Yeah.

This is like, honestly, if I don't.

People are like, what do you want to do for the rest of your life?

I was like, well, I don't know how to do a lot of things.

The only thing I know that I know, I know how to do is I can sing.

I'll just sing.

And he can do the rest.

He can do the rest.

So that's the fun thing about being a independent artist.

And Just beginning is I don't have Mass streams and I don't number one.

I don't really care because I know God is the orchestrator and he'll get it to the hearts that are meant to hear it.

But it is fun to get that weekly recap from the Apple and Spotify to see where in the world.

Which you probably can feel this with podcasts, too.

It's like, oh, I actually get to see that this reached this nation that I've actually never heard of.

What is it about this nation?

Oh, it's 95% mother Muslim nation.

Yeah.

Is listening to Longing, which is a song all about Come, Lord Jesus, come in that land.

Okay.

So something that I have felt from the Lord in my process is that the songs that I'm writing are to.

He's going to.

They're meant to be missionaries, and he.

He's calling me to raise them up.

Raise them up, steward them, and send them, and he'll do the rest of the work.

And so that's the call that I feel connected to, is like, I just am supposed to like, like, create, and he will do the rest.

And so it's just like, it blessed my heart to see that that happened.

And let's like, bless her.

But like, Taylor Swift has no idea the individual one stream that, like, God, like, she's gonna see the huge number.

Yeah.

But it's like.

And it makes me think about the.

He'll leave the 99 for the 1.

Like, he took my little song from.

Grew up in Caledonia, Michigan, and I had a song to sing, and it was birthed out of.

Of a revelation of the return of Jesus Christ.

And he's gonna send it over to the Middle East.

Yeah.

What it doesn't really make like, that's a miracle.

And so that's just.

And then that's just fun.

Like, it's just like, wow, this is cool.

I get to do this with you, God.

So I love that you said that, you know, your songs or the songs that God gives you are like little missionaries.

Because that's really like.

That just like, gave me, like, a better picture of some things.

That is you send them and they.

And God does what he wants to do with those.

And it doesn't matter because I always think, again, I think about the same thing with podcasting.

It's like, well, you know, I always go back to, like, I don't feel like I'm eloquent enough.

I don't think I was clear.

You know, I'm not a clear communicator.

Very Moses.

Like, right?

And I'm like, but God's like, I'm not asking you for your resume.

I'm asking you for your obedience.

I want to do it, and I'm going to do the rest.

And then I remember, like, reading.

Well, because with podcasts, people leave reviews, and I'm like, I don't know any of these people.

I know it's scary.

Yeah.

And I'm like, I don't know what they're gonna say.

They're probably Laura's working on me.

But, like, every time I upload them, like, I'm gonna Prepping myself for all the worst ones.

That's all.

I'm like, nothing's good.

And they're all so kind and so thorough of, like, how it's inspired them and helps them.

And I'm like, what?

Yeah.

And I think, like, especially with songwriting or anything creative, you have to have faith.

Yes.

It's the faith portion.

I know that's like, basic 101, but it's like, do you have faith that Jesus can do what he wants to do with your.

Yes.

Or with whatever he's given to you?

You know, it's like, I remember someone saying that to me.

Like, your podcast is.

You know, they're giving me a word about my podcast.

But you have to have faith.

I'm like, well, yeah, I have faith.

I'm doing it.

Yeah.

He's like, no, you need to have faith.

Like, believe that God is gonna do the rest.

And how many times do we, as believers, like, believe for the big, big things, but the small things God wants to do as well?

Because those small things are actually really big things.

Yes.

We just think, like, if I have faith that, you know, Jesus is king, Jesus is Lord.

Yeah, of course.

But do you believe him to be your daily bread?

Like, for real.

For real.

Like, that's another kind of faith.

It's another kind of faith.

And the process, like, the.

The act of pulling it together, like, the getting the lights and getting the branding and getting all that.

It's like, this is all.

Worship unto my yes.

Like, I'm saying yes.

I want to offer you the best.

This is for you.

And so.

And if I keep my eyes on that, then the little comments and reviews, it's like, I mean, I guess, sure.

But I know that when I stand before God.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I gave him my yes.

And I.

And I.

And I did it.

Yeah.

For him.

And you probably felt this, too, but, like, when you start to feel the delight of God.

Yeah.

You want the Delight of God.

Like, I want to keep.

I want that.

Like, I'm feeling your grace on this.

I'm seeing your favor.

Right.

And not in a.

Like, you know, we're better than any.

There's a.

Not a Better than anybody.

But it's like, no, but like, I'm embracing when I step into this.

This realm of yes.

With God and do this thing.

He's blessing it.

He's with me.

I feel his presence.

I feel his delight.

I feel his love.

I feel the fruit of the spirit in and on my life.

Why would I be like, yeah, I think I'm just gonna.

Right.

It's so.

It's a different.

It's a different perspective that I didn't know would come until doing it.

Yeah.

Like, you're finishing out your first season.

Yeah.

And you're gaining an authority and that only God could give you for the next thing.

From glory to glory.

And it's like, I wanna know.

I mean, just pure curiosity.

My go.

Like, what's.

What's on the other side?

What is on the other side?

And if I'm continually kind of.

If you're working on me getting over myself, like, that's.

I mean, great.

I need that, so help me.

But I am now just, like, curious, like, what could be on the other side?

So I don't want to give up exactly.

Doing it.

But that's really good.

Like, the whole riding on God's delight.

Like, you want to just keep going in that.

Because you know that when you do something and it's like, beyond what you can actually do.

Well, if God can do this, then there's more.

Yeah.

And then God's like, well, yeah, because I have more because I'm God.

Yeah.

And so if there's more than endless up here.

Yeah.

And I think that that makes it easy to, like, you know, cancel out fears and doubts and things like that.

Because, well, you're chasing the delight of the Lord, not the delight of people.

And so that helps kind of like.

And I think for me, because if I, like, songwriting's done this or even just podcasting stuff.

Yeah.

If I just leave stuff for a while, like, I literally, today I had to.

I repented to the Lord.

Cause I was like, I just kind of let some things go dormant just because I was just not.

I felt like just avoiding avoidance of something.

I'm like, oh, I gotta really get back into that.

I don't really know.

And I don't feel confident again.

Just putting all the efforts in myself versus in the Lord.

I felt like, man, Lord, I just didn't steward that really well.

Like, you give me the space.

You give me these things to do.

And, like, for me, personally, I really felt the Lord say, like, it's release season.

Like, it's not time for you to just hoard things and take things in.

Like, that does nothing.

It's release time.

Like, don't let things sit dormant.

And maybe that's for somebody.

I don't know.

Maybe, like, if there's something that's dormant, whether it's your faith, maybe it's reading the word, meditating on his word, getting into his presence more, or a relationship with your family or whatever that is.

Like, don't leave things dormant that God has called you.

That is called.

God is called to be alive.

Yes.

He wants it to be alive.

Yes.

And so it's like, okay, I have these songs, or I have this thing.

God's like, my life is in that, and it's sitting here, and you're allowing it to die.

Yes.

Like, resurrect it.

Timing is timing, and seasons is so important.

Yeah.

Too, like, that's.

There is a time to let things sit and settle.

Of course.

And I could say that for songwriting, for sure.

I. I am thankful that for my 20s, I didn't actually feel this call.

Like, I could just kind of engage with God and grow with him in hiddenness in our relationship.

So when he did say go, it's like, now it's go time.

The season became super, super clear, which was helpful.

And it was like, the grace, and you feel his hand on your back kind of pushing you into a direction.

And I think that's so important.

Like, there's that time where it's like, do leave it dormant, and that is okay.

And.

And let it go.

Or, I mean, even with a song, like, I could be, like, ramping on a song.

And then all of a sudden, it's like, I. I think I just got to let that.

Let that go.

I just got to let that go.

I got to let that go dormant.

Maybe it'll come back, maybe it won't.

Yeah.

And that's okay.

Yeah.

But it's also, like, even you saying, like, I had to repent to the Lord.

He's.

I love that he's like, that's all right.

Let's just pick.

Let's just pick back up.

Yeah.

We can take it from here.

Right.

And in our weakness, he's strong.

So it's like, even if when God puts something in our heart and we're like, I feel this a lot.

I'm like, but I don't know.

Am I.

Am I okay?

Like, are.

Are you sure you want to work with me, Lord, on this?

Like, are you sure I'm the one?

It's like.

It's like you're saying.

It's like, that's putting so much pressure on yourself and, like.

But like, he kind of goes off when you're just surrendered to his will.

And, like, if I'm saying yes, I'm giving you everything.

Yeah, here you go.

Let's do this thing.

Yeah.

And then, like, what's the worst that could happen?

Right?

Really, at the end, I'm gonna get a bad review.

Someone might not like my song.

Right.

All right.

Yeah.

It's just.

I mean, it's that faith piece too.

It's like, who are you gonna believe in.

Yeah.

Versus just, like, putting all your chips in yourself.

Yeah.

And then just saying, well, no, God said it.

Yep.

He's gonna complete it, so just get in the boat.

And how do you get to know that he is who he says he is in these areas of your life if you don'?

That's very true.

Like, I think that was something that I've.

I'm continuing to learn is like, if I.

It could be really comfortable with the.

It's okay.

It could be really comfortable with the.

Look at my mom's.

I love it.

She passed.

Bypassed the do not disturb.

It can be really comfortable to sit with, like, the head knowledge of, like, who you know, God is good.

It's like, yes, he is.

God is love.

God is always.

It's like, yes, right.

Like, you're saying back to the.

Like, yeah, but do you have faith?

Right.

But where's your faith at?

Okay, well, do you believe that he will open doors for you?

Will you take a step forward to see if there's a door open?

Are you willing to have the door slammed in your face?

Right.

Is he that good?

Let's find out.

Let's find out.

So.

Yeah.

That's so good.

I'm so sorry.

No, you're totally good.

I just.

Yeah.

Love that.

That God is just so kind with us as we're trying to figure it out too, you know, it's like, you know, even just going to the doormat

thing, I'm like, oh, well, I was

just putting too much stuff, you know, pressure on myself, and so I just kind of left it because I was afraid.

But the Lord's just like.

Like you said, like, that's okay.

Just like, let's.

Let's carry on and we Just it's all about the perception of the Father too.

Like, how we have like the right perception of the Father.

And we're going to talk about that too, because it's like, do you think the Father as your shepherd is good or not?

Do you think he's like.

You know, people can align.

I think even in our world, they think based on their relationship with their Father, that like, if we.

The Heavenly Father's like their earthly Father or like someone else.

And it's like we have a wrong perception of who God is.

And I feel like for me, that is a continual redefined moment.

Like I'm having constant moments of that.

I'm like, oh, that's who you are.

Oh, okay.

I was, I was thinking you're like this and you're not like that.

And it's like, how do we.

Because again, this is just all.

This is all fresh.

I didn't even give this to you.

Yeah.

Earlier.

But it's like, how do we keep.

I mean, it's just the pursuits that's part of the relationship is just like staying rooted in him and coming back to him when we are confused or frustrated or he wants to.

Wants, like he wants us to come to him with everything so that he can reveal himself.

Yes.

To us.

Even if we think.

Well, I know that, like, it's new every time.

Yes.

We could go to town on this topic.

I'm so thankful for the Holy Spirit who leads us, points us to Jesus who died for us.

Because, you know, the fall happened and it took away the family and only Jesus could restore us back to the Father.

And it is interesting because our.

Like, if we can just.

I'm.

I'm not.

I love logic and sometimes I can be so black and white and I.

But I do love the black and white nature of the reality.

It's like we just.

That thing in your heart, that thing in all of our hearts that's just like longing for God, that eternity in our heart that is just our desire for the Father.

Like, it really is super simple.

It's not complex.

And he knew that only he was.

He created us.

He knew that there had to be reunion between that and reconciliation.

And that he would do that shows his love.

And then again, because of the fall, we were dealing with imperfect people, but our broken lenses on man getting directed towards a perfect and holy and sovereign God.

Yeah,

we gotta stop.

I mean, it's natural because.

And he knows this.

He knows.

It's like they're not gonna know the fullness all the way.

But that that is the beauty and unveiling and mystery of God.

But to already know, like, to know and stand in the place of like, everything I need is found in the Father.

And like, he is always better than the projection that I'm going to.

Even if I had an amazing dad, which I, I did.

I had a. I have an incredible dad who loves God.

Like, he's not perfect, but in many ways he is just excellent.

Yeah.

But like, even if I were to project that.

Yeah.

On like, God is so much better.

Like, why is that hard for people to want to.

I find it difficult to understand why a heart would not want to respond to that, except if they're looking through the lens of.

Yeah.

I mean, these people have and will fail you, but you have access because of Jesus to a perfect Father who can heal.

Yeah.

Everything within you, who can restore everything within you, can love the places that like, our solution.

Yeah.

Is literally in Him.

And it's like, yeah, well, we always are like, cutting him short.

Like, no, you must be.

It's like, so that's constantly the prayer, like, even Holy Spirit, like in Ephesians, it's like, increase revelation knowledge.

Like, I need to know more that I have in God.

The Bible talks about how we have everything in him.

And it's like, but I'm still living a life that's has an orphan viewpoint of what you have for me when you actually have everything for me.

Everything that I need to the cellular level and beyond.

Oh, I love him.

Yeah.

Yeah.

He is so, so good.

And he is, he is our all in all is the everything that we need.

And I like, even in that frame of like, okay, what about taking a little spin?

What if God.

Okay, God is my everything.

So why do I have to go to a church?

Why do I have to be plugged into a community?

Why?

Why?

I could just.

If he is my everything, then I don't need anything else.

Yeah.

And I've just been kind of toiling a little bit with that as what we talked, but also just like, like, Lord, I've been through so many different churches and so many different scenarios.

Great.

Amazing.

Yeah, not so great.

Not amazing all in between.

From the entire.

I mean, I've been in church my entire life and I've been involved in so many different churches that it's like I've experienced many different things.

And based on my record, you would think I'd be like, I, I'm out.

I'm out for church.

I'm good, you know, but like, my heart, like, because I Long for Jesus.

I long for his people.

Yes.

And, like, I just can't help but, like, think about the scripture in John 14, where it says, like, he is the vine and we are the branches.

Yes.

We're not the only branch.

Yep.

We're not the only.

We are all connected to the vine.

And he delights in that because he's coming back for a bride.

That's right.

Not for a solo church.

Not for anything else, just the whole bride, you know, and it's.

It's easy to.

Oh, man, it's so easy to be like, I don't really need the church.

And just like, what you're saying with just like the fall, it's like, we've have now this perception with church or man, that's like, well, we need God and we need this.

It's not even that.

Even, like, the equations, like, Jesus and the church.

Totally.

The church is him.

Like, we're so, like, let's dig into that.

Like, what is the importance of being.

I know you're very passionate about the local church.

I am.

You're very passionate.

And I mean, we've kind of been through different scenarios in churches where we're like, okay, this is great.

This is awesome.

This isn't so great.

Okay, how do I get somewhere else where I can feel, like, really plugged in and I can serve the body well, because.

Because Scripture says that we are to do that.

That is just.

We're in disobedience if we're not doing that.

So what is the importance of it then?

For those who are kind of on the fence, like, yeah, man, what do you think?

What's your revelation on that, man, there's so much to that question, too.

I.

My heart has been.

Yes.

I mean, yes.

And amen to what you're saying.

Have seen the worst, have seen the best, have seen amazing things.

But I love the local church.

I love the church because it's Jesus's church.

It's Jesus, so it's his.

Something that I've always wrestled with is.

And I have so many.

I've had this conversation so many times is, listen, I love Jesus.

I just can't stand Christians.

Right?

And I'm like, yeah, that's tough.

That's a tough thing to say.

Because if you know Jesus, if you love him, because he died for you, and out of the same side of your mouth, you're like, but I don't love Christians.

I don't love his bride.

It's like, that's actually, again, the logic, the black and white I'm like, that doesn't actually really make sense.

Like, if you know him, you love him.

You love everything about him.

You become passionate about what he's passionate about.

And if you're not there, you need to get there.

Like, I need to love who you love.

And also recognizing, just like me, I am not perfect.

The people in the church are not perfect.

Nowhere in the Bible that I have found does it say, the people of God are perfect.

Yeah.

Which one of the churches were perfect?

Correct.

No.

We can go to Revelation and he's addressing all of the churches and saying, get it together.

Get it together, Heather, quickly.

Yes.

And he's being so gracious and merciful to us.

Jesus had to die the death that he died for.

This.

These Christians that you don't really like, but he loved them so much that he gave his life.

The Father sent his only son, Jesus, the resurrected Jesus is sitting at the right hand of the Father, interceding.

For this church that you're saying, I don't really like, but I don't really like.

It's like, whoa, whoa, whoa.

Yeah.

I think we have to, like, come back to, like, a healthy perspective of, like, who the God is that we're serving.

Of course.

We know.

We have become such a consumeristic people.

Yeah.

We do that in church life.

Yeah.

And in every area of our lives.

This isn't serving me, so this is why I don't like it.

Yeah.

A lot of times if you're being held accountable for actions, you start to hold a negative.

Like, I don't like the church because they came and corrected me on this.

Sure.

Now, there's also the other side of.

There is.

There are probably leaders that have not handled listeners all the way.

Correct.

Yeah.

The piece of that that encourages me is that God saw it all.

Amen.

I walked through a season of time where I felt really wronged by a leader.

And it was super, super painful and confusing.

And if I had not had a with the Lord, I would have 1,000% walked away from the church.

1,000%.

But I'm so thankful for the teachings of my parents and the faith of my father and that that was rooted in me.

But it was still brutal and something that.

A wonderful woman in my life.

I love her so much.

Kendra told me way too many times until it clicked into my spirit that God is your defender.

God is your defender.

I can't tell you how many times.

And to this day, I will hear her voice in moments where I feel injustice or, like, not even just in my life.

I will hear that God is your defender.

God, he sees it all.

He sees it all.

So.

And he does hold leaders at a high account.

And I would say that all leaders, we're all called to go low before God and treat people with love.

It's not going to be perfect because we're imperfect people.

I'm not going to love.

I'm not going to love perfectly.

I actually had somebody reach out to me.

I was, I was in ministry a while back and this girl reached out to me five years later and was like, hey, I want you to know, you said this, you did this.

And it has really affected my life.

And I say that humbly because one, I had no idea.

Yeah, I didn't even know.

I didn't even know.

And like, five years more maturity to hear how that's affected somebody.

It's like, man, I wish I would have known so that I could have said something like, I'm not perfect.

I'm not going to be perfect.

I want to be as much like Jesus as I can be, but I don't know that.

I don't think the solution is.

I hate.

I'm going to blanket all Christians.

I mean, the truth is it would have been.

It's the Christians that turned against.

Against Jesus.

So another comforting thing is if anybody understands, yes, the mistreatment, the misappropriated, like, it's gonna be Jesus.

And so because of the Jesus, we have Jesus that we can.

Oh, Lord, like, this leader treated me bad or this leader said this and it really hurt me.

I.

But you died for this, like, the perspective, like you died for me, Lord.

And I'm not gonna have, I'm not going to do it right every time.

And would you just help me?

And like, would I be quick to repent, Lord?

Would I be humble?

All these things, I think are mingled into that process.

Okay.

The local church, I think we have to be a part of the local church.

It's super important.

It matters to God.

The Bible talks about it and he.

It just matters.

And I think too, when people hear local church.

Yeah.

It's just like, it feels like very like, just a, like a building and a name and all of these things.

And it's like, yeah, well.

And we might have to rage against that mindset.

Yeah.

To come into the true nature of the Ecclesia Church.

The people, the living stones.

We're supposed to be in this together, held by, held by and on the cornerstone.

So it doesn't really, if you break it down, it doesn't really hold much Weight to say, I'm gonna to do my own thing.

It's like, are you not a living.

You must not be a living stone then with.

And that's sobering.

But it's like, you have to work.

We're a body.

He's coming back for the bride and he's ironing this stuff out.

And either your heart will respond to that or it won't.

And you might continue down a path of isolation.

And it's good enough.

Kind of like we were talking about earlier Covid, like what that's done, like, since COVID it's not been the same.

Being connected with the body is so important because you got all age demographics, all different people that can offer different things.

So even coming back to the living stones and the family language, there's probably many people out there that don't have healthy Christian moms and dads.

Do you know where you can find healthy Christian moms and dads in the church?

I know a woman that is an incredible spiritual mother.

She's just got mother on her, like, on her life and her kids are grown and it's like.

Like her time is not up.

She has got her arms open to love.

On those that do not have a spiritual mom and their spiritual dads and brothers and sisters, just that expression, to do things together, we have to do this, we have to do that, and it's a blessing to God.

Do not forsake the day of worshiping together.

How can you do that if you're not connected to the local church?

And local church is meant to make cities better.

Yeah.

Amen.

And so we can't change on our own.

Like, I can't.

I can't change a city on my own.

But when the church comes together, united in Christ, like, change happens.

The Holy Spirit in you is in the Holy Spirit and me, we.

We come together.

We unite.

Yeah.

More can be done for the kingdom of God.

And it's like, that's what should get us excited.

Not about.

Yeah.

All the other stuff.

Like, maybe we just need to start to expect that people will like, really disappoint us and let us down.

Like that's going to happen.

And like, the sooner.

And it's happened to me and I haven't always been like, quick, you know, quick to the hit.

But it's like, man, I just think the older I get, the more it happens.

Where my expectations are disappointed, spoken unspoken.

Doesn't really matter.

Right.

They've been disappointed.

But like Jesus still.

Jesus is still worthy.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So I'm Sure.

I could say more about it, but.

No, that's good.

I was just thinking about, you know, the day of Pentecost.

I love if Just read it because it just says they came together and then they were together.

There's something.

And Jesus told everyone, don't leave.

Come together, go together, be together.

My branches be together because I'm gonna pour out my spirit on all men.

And that is what happened.

And there's just something really powerful.

I think Jesus.

Jesus, like, very subtle, but I think in Scripture, you hear him just say, like, be together, or we're doing this together.

Unity, or not.

Like, there's just something about it.

And I do think, like, when people say, like, church or local church, you know, they do think like this.

I don't know, this very, like, oh, I gotta be perfect kind of thing.

Or, you know, I gotta.

I can't be who I am.

Or it's kind of, like, businessy, or I feel like to do all these different things just to, like, match up or to, like, be in or have to fit into this church.

Or there's just all these, you know, things.

Expectations that.

Wrong.

Expectations of what the church is.

And I think that we're seeing, even after Covid, we're seeing a lot of that broken down because the church is actually tired of what church has been correct.

And we're really trying to really get rid.

Not get rid of.

It's almost like, what's the word?

I'm.

I lost it.

It's.

What is it?

What's the big word that, like, everybody was doing?

They were, like, taking away.

Deconstructing.

Deconstructing.

They're deconstructing the church.

And I heard Michael Miller say something.

It was so powerful.

And he talked about the whole deconstruction.

He's like, that wasn't actually bad.

But here's the thing.

They just.

They're doing it wrong.

Because you can't deconstruct a person.

Person.

You can destruct a place, a program.

Sure, let's redo that.

Let's get rid of that.

Yeah.

But you cannot deconstruct Jesus.

So if Jesus is the only thing that you are absolutely presenting to people, there's nothing to complain about.

Right.

Because he's it.

There's nothing to break down.

There's nothing to break down.

There's nothing to add.

There's nothing to do anything else, because it's just Him.

And when it is just him, like, you want to be there.

Like, I remember when I was a kid, and I would be so Mad if my mom dropped me off late to youth group because I was like, I'm not missing worship.

Yep.

Like, I want to be with my friends.

Yeah.

As we worship together.

As we.

Like, I was excited to cry during church, and I was a little emotional.

I mean, I grew up in a Pentecostal church, but it's like, we just wanted to be with Him.

Like, that hunger when I was a kid, like, is still evident here, but I think what we.

We've got.

Not wrong necessarily, but I think we've just.

We've shifted our perspective to being about other things versus, like, the main thing.

Yeah.

And it's funny, Jenny, because we know it's like people say, yeah, well, we are about Jesus, but I'm like, where is he at?

Where is he?

Where are we?

How are we ministering to Him?

Only there's a lot of other stuff going on.

And there's a lot of stuff.

There's too much going on.

And, like, I'm all for do.

Like, there's things that we do that are blessing.

Yeah.

That help the body, that bless people, and I love that so much.

But to the point, like, do we.

Do we allow it to cost our intimacy with Jesus and, like, our reason for why we come to church?

So going back to, like, Covid after all that happened, then, you know, we started seeing, like, Asbury revivals and things like that, where it was just like, we just want the main thing.

Yeah.

And there's this hunger, I feel, and just like a rising of.

Yeah.

Hunger within the body.

Even people who have been hurt by the church, they just want Jesus and they will go to the local church because they know that's where he is.

Yes.

That's where he is.

That's him.

Or they won't go to the local church because they can't find him anymore.

They can't find Him.

Shut it down maybe.

And so that is.

That is.

That is the thing.

Yeah.

Is we were made to worship.

Yeah.

In all the stuff.

I think it.

It maybe worked or helped in some ways.

And.

And the encouraging thing is God's just doing.

Like you said earlier, God is just doing a new thing.

Yeah.

So even in my own heart, I have to really, really fight being critical.

You write because he's ironing.

This is a promise.

He's ironing out.

He's exposing.

He's removing every stain and wrinkle.

And that could be a wrinkle that he's like, hey, all this extra stuff where we're going church, this isn't coming with I mean, there's tons of stuff that we could say that he's putting his finger on.

There's the celebrity pastor vibe.

There's that.

There's the, you know, the, even the, the music industry and the church and like that conversation.

And there's a lot there.

And I don't know all the answers to what all those.

What all that is, but I think at the end of the day, always it has been look at Jesus, look at Jesus.

And we find out pretty quickly how easily we don't look at Jesus.

Peter's walking on the water.

Yeah, it's really easy to not look at Jesus.

We have to fight to look at him sometimes.

And I think it isn't.

It's an encouraging hour.

Like, I mean, I've been seeing.

Yeah.

There's like revival rising up across America and specifically America is just sleeping comfortable.

And I think there's something shifting and I think, like, what you're saying, there's a.

Hey, like what's.

It's all become white noise and people want to cut to the presence of God.

Yeah.

They want to get to the God.

And I do think that that is Gen Z. I think Gen Z is like, yeah, hey, this isn't working for me.

I just want Jesus.

Like, I don't want to the fluff.

And I'm so encouraged.

I think it's so important too, in the body of Christ to look to all the generations, but, like, pull on what's going on in the hour.

And I think God is doing something really special in Gen Z that's encouraging me, but man.

Yeah.

And just the nature of like, another reason I love local church is prayer.

Because I can ask the person that I'm sitting next to in church to pray for me.

Hey, you've walked through this.

I'm close enough with you in life.

I know that you've walked through this.

Can you pray for me over this?

Can I pray over you for this?

I'm seeing Jesus performing the God of the Bible, the Jesus of the Bible healing people.

I'm seeing him do that today because of the prayer that's happening in the house of God.

So, um, I think there's something to that.

Where faith unites in deep cries out to deep.

And.

Yeah, I just.

That's where we're supposed to be.

Yeah.

And again, I think you can.

There's a filter change that does have to shift because, like, we're saying, like, people.

People can view the local church like, well, I have to be perfect and all of these things.

There is A part of that conversation where that is a model that has been a model that has been set for some people.

That is their context that that was it.

Like, you have to be perfect.

A pretty intense religious sp.

Yeah.

It's not, like, outlandish for someone to think that.

Do I think it's correct?

No.

That's sad that they have not maybe gotten to the.

Be able to understand and see who God is.

And that's what we're there to do is make room for the Lord to come into his place, that he wouldn't be standing outside his house, knocking at the door like, you gonna let me in or are you guys gonna keep doing.

So that's the.

And there's a fear of the Lord with that.

I think that I just feel like in this hour, he's knocking and many are responding and some will not.

Some may continue on in.

Down a path of control or.

Well, we just.

This is what we've always done.

It's like, yeah.

And you might just carry on always doing that.

I think at the same time, God's raising up new leaders.

There's amen.

People watching and learning and praying and continually going to seminary school and growing in their knowledge of the Word.

And it's like, yeah, he's turning things.

He's turning things.

His advan, it's never stopped.

His.

His kingdom has never stopped advancing and moving forward.

And so.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I just think.

I think.

But to the.

To the conversation of, like, the church hurt, too.

Yeah.

Can we get into that?

Can we get.

Let's get into it.

Can we get into the church hurt, please?

Because it's real.

Yeah.

I have been chur.

Church hurt.

Yeah.

You have been church hurt.

We could use that language or a leader or whatever.

Yeah.

Again, the biggest thing.

Well, first and foremost, to all the listeners that have experienced that, I'm just so sorry.

Yeah.

I'm sorry for the pain that that caused.

I'm sorry for, you know, all those things that you live with today because of something that somebody said or an expectation or.

And maybe you feel like you've moved on from it, but it still kind of resurfaces in your thoughts or even if it is for your view of returning to church, like somebody really did you in.

Can I just ask you to reconsider.

You're there for Jesus, and I think that's the thing.

We've discipled people unto churchianity and not Christian, like unto Jesus Christ.

And so maybe just having an honest look of.

Maybe.

Maybe.

Maybe I put too much into Maybe even I put too much into the structures, the leader's voice, all these things, because I think that can happen.

And I mean, at the end of the day, there's a level of idolatry that's in that 100%, because I'm looking at this leader to fulfill my every need.

I'm looking for them to never fail.

I'm looking for them to say these things.

And because they didn't, now I'm hurt.

But they were never gonna be able to do that.

To do that.

Yes.

And you know, Jesus isn't going to do that.

The Lord is not going to do that to you.

And so it is.

It's.

It's a hard one.

It's a hard one.

And it's.

It's almost trendy.

Right.

And I don't love that because it's sad.

But the solution is Jesus.

It is really, it.

The.

Back to the basics.

Yeah, It's.

He's the healer.

He's.

I'm so thankful.

Another reason you should stay in local church is because you can have people in your life that can encourage you through the hard things.

Someone lets you down.

Hey, I need help walking through this because it's really, really difficult.

Also having people in your life that are like, hey, you're kind of off.

Yeah, yeah, I'm sorry that that happened for sure.

Like, I validate that.

Those are real feelings that really did happen.

But, like, your heart and being concerned about the heart of one another and, like, put.

Pulling people forward.

Right.

I was going through a really hard time a couple years ago, and it just felt so dark.

I was like, oh, I just.

I'm just.

I don't like my life.

And it was just so bad.

I was to that point, and I was sitting with a good, good friend of mine who.

Such a good listener.

We've walked through many seasons of highs and lows together.

And she listened to me and she was there, and she honored the tears that were very, very real.

And she was like, I hear what you're saying, but you have a really good life.

And that corrective kindness, it was, like, quickly brought me into a perspective shift.

Quickly, like, to the point where I'm like, yeah, how can I?

Like, how could I say that?

How could I really?

So now here we go.

Lord, I repent for even not, like, missing that moment.

And.

And it was.

It was.

I wasn't offended that she said that, but iron sharpens iron.

If you're not in the local church, you're.

You're not getting sharper.

You're getting dull, pretty dull.

And so I'm thankful for.

I'm thankful for the local church and community.

That's key.

Like, that's actually, like, such a benefit.

We don't want to walk this life alone.

I don't.

I don't think anybody does.

I want to be seen and known and have a safe place to bring my innermost heart and thoughts.

And, yeah, like, we're talking about the living stones in each joint supplies.

I don't have to look to the senior pastor to be my solution.

I can look to Jesus and also my friends, my community, the spiritual mother.

This friend that I have that has a pastoral gift, like, hey, what do you think about this?

I can go to my other friend who knows the Bible so well and knows theology.

Like, can we talk about this?

That it says in Revelation.

Can we talk about this verse and meditate on it?

Confusing.

Confuses me.

I'm wrestling with it.

I don't really understand it.

I'm confused.

And so I can't imagine not having that.

Yes.

And so maybe try again.

Try again with an open heart.

And your healing alone can.

Is going to come from God.

He has your healing from those things.

That's so true.

Which is Claude.

Thank you, Lord.

Like, that I have God to do the things that when man wounds me, like man wounded Jesus, what it really is, too, is it's an invitation into partnering with his suffering.

And so it's interesting what comes out of us when we actually get invitations to partner with his suffering, in which the Bible tells us to partner with his suffering and what that produces in us.

But we're like, no, no, no.

It's like, again, I come back to the question, like, do we really know the God we serve, or are we just at church?

Because I always went to church.

That's just like, a good thing that I do.

It's like, exactly.

Don't go just for that reason, but come to know the solution to all of your problems.

Right?

And then you will.

And then, like.

Like you're saying, like, getting in the presence of believers and worshiping together.

There's just nothing like it.

I love worshiping in my car.

I love worshiping in the shower.

I love all that.

There's nothing.

There's nothing like the presence of God.

When you're with.

When you're united with believers, singing of the worthiness of God and joining with the song that's never ended with heaven in that moment.

Like, I'm sorry, like, you're not gonna.

You're not gonna be able to fabricate that.

That's amazing.

I love Sunday morning.

I'm a church girl.

I am, too.

I am, too.

I'm a church girl.

I'm not gonna let anybody.

I'm not gonna let any man take that for me, because he is.

Is worthy.

Yes.

Yeah, yeah.

And I love what you said about, you know, just taking our eyes off of, like, the church, giving us something.

Yep.

Like, the church will help with lots of practical things.

Yes.

They're not it.

Correct.

So, like, I think, you know, I grew up in the 90s, so it was very much like we were just at church all the time.

Don't care.

You're going to church.

And although, like, I really encountered Jesus a lot there, I also fabricated in my mind that the church was just.

It, like, what we were doing at the church, not the being of the church, was elevated over, like, what the church actually was.

So when I had experienced my first church hurt or split, it crushed me because I was not rooted to the 1.

I was in love with Jesus, but I think I just had it mixed.

I was like, okay, Jesus, I.

And the church.

It was like, but Jesus is the church.

I love the scripture where Jesus is telling Peter and he's saying, that confession that you just said, that is how I'm building my church upon this rock.

It's his church.

It's him, and everything's connected to him.

And if it's obviously.

And I say that because it's like, well, yeah, we're doing this thing in the name of.

We do this in the name of.

Which happens a lot.

It's like, okay.

But some things that are in the name of.

Are not actually something that God approves of.

Right.

Or cares about or, like, just how he doesn't care.

Just like, it's not the main thing.

No.

You know, I mean, he says not as hard.

He's like, you said, I did this in your name.

I did this in your name.

That is true.

You don't know me.

You don't know me.

And I think that's a very sobering scripture to memorize and return to that.

Like, Lord, if there's anything.

Yes.

Is there?

Yeah.

I don't want to think I know you.

I want to know you.

I want to know that I know.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And he, like, just like you said, I love.

I just got a picture of, like, God ironing out wrinkles.

And.

And he's okay.

Yeah.

He knows what he died for.

He's.

No, he.

He knew what he was getting himself.

He knew what he was Getting himself.

Yeah, He's.

He is Alpha Omega saw the beginning from the end, and he said, it's worth it.

And my father, Father, it's obedience to my father, who I love.

This is the least we can do.

I mean, it's like, it's not about us, and we have to, like, really let that sink in deep.

Yeah.

And it's also not culturally understood, like, here, specifically Evangelical Christians, like, it's just become all about us.

Yeah.

We've known this.

I've read books that are from 50 years ago that are saying the same thing.

Same thing, same thing.

Right.

And it's like, okay, so why is nothing changed?

Why is it always always about us?

It's like, we're finite.

That's one thing.

And we're forgetful and we're fickle, and he's just faithful.

And so we have to keep on returning to him.

John the Baptist encourages us to repent, continually repent.

It's like we have to keep getting our heart back on track with God, keep on it, and never grow weary of.

Of it.

And so I. I think no church is perfect.

And I.

There's been seasons where I've had to tell myself that just like that, like, through a deep breath, like, no church is perfect.

No leader is perfect.

Right.

I'm going to be misunderstood.

I'm going to be.

But Jesus, you're worthy.

You're worthy.

Yeah.

And that's special.

Yeah.

There's no other God.

Yeah.

Yeah.

That's so good.

I have this quote I'm gonna read, and then I'll have you pray for everybody.

I heard it the other day, and I was like, I should have put it in my notes there, but I didn't, so let me find it really quick.

Oh, wait, hold on.

So in regards to the church.

Oh, so good.

I didn't write the author of this.

I can't even believe it.

But I'll leave it in the show notes, and I'll put the person that quoted this.

But it's a spiritual formation.

Cannot in the nature of.

Of the case, be a private thing, because it is a matter of a whole life transformation.

You need to seek out others in your community who are pursuing the renovation of the heart.

It's like we're all showing up on a Sunday or a Wednesday or a prayer meeting in renovation mode.

My husband's a builder.

They're doing demo.

It's constantly.

Demo day for Amber.

Yeah.

There's constantly things going on in my heart, and when we come together, we need to do that.

It Says because it's amazing.

Matter of a whole life transformation.

We're the body.

Yeah.

The whole body is being transformed.

Lol.

Like the fact that we're looking to God and saying people like, the deconstructing needs to happen there.

It's like you saying, that's like, oh, actually that's so awkward because.

Right.

This needs to happen in here.

Let's go.

Let me remove the things that are not of you that I've made or called you that were not.

Yes.

That's not.

I'm deconstructing God.

Deconstructing the church.

Like, well, maybe there's some things like I thought I understood.

Well.

Correct.

Wow.

Wow.

The, like, renovation of our heart is the transformation that can only be made in community.

Yes.

In private.

You're not going to tell yourself how wrong you are.

Right.

Like, there's some things you'd be like, yeah, that's got to go.

But I'm talking about the ones that.

And saying, I know you don't probably see this, but this blind spots.

Every single person has a blind spot.

How are we going to know what our blind spots are without someone saying, hey, I think this.

Can I give you a perspective?

It's also interesting with the renovation language too, because our hearts, we are infinitely broken because of the fall.

If you think about broke thousands of years ago and generations are reproducing all this time.

Our brokenness is infinite and we have Jesus.

So we are literally shambles.

And he puts us back together and there's just gonna be continual healing.

And the encouragement behind that is like, his hand is on our life.

Then if he's healing us, I want his hand on my life.

There's broken stuff in there.

And, and you know, we're constantly.

That's sanctification.

He's making us whole.

He's making us holy as we lean and impress into that and yeah.

You know, study his word, learn who he is.

He's the best.

Yeah.

He really is.

It's.

I love him so much.

Yeah.

He's so good.

I'd love if you would just.

If you would just pray for like, as we enter in our conversation here.

But just pray for people who might have been hurt and don't feel like they want to go back to church or those who are struggling where they're at.

Yeah, yeah.

And they don't know what to do or their perspective or whatever.

Really.

The spirit leads you to pray for it.

But I just really feel like there's people that have experienced something, of course, and they're either, like, really needing peace about something or they need direction or whatever it is.

And sometimes people just like what you said, like, they just need a re encounter with Jesus to know it's just Him.

But maybe they do need some, like, support, some prayer to, like, navigate the things that they've experienced.

So I love if you would just pray for us.

Yes.

Oh, Holy Spirit.

You see every heart that this podcast has has reached, and you know their story from beginning to end.

Lord, we thank youk that yout have healing for the broken heart, Lord.

You're near to the brokenhearted.

Your word says that that's who you say youy are, Lord.

And I just pray for these listeners, God, that they would feel the confidence.

Yeah.

That you've seen it all and that they would regain trust in you.

Yes, Lord.

Lord, we thank you that it is who you are to turn all things for good.

And, Lord, I just ask for.

I ask that you would come in and even protect these listeners from a heart of bitterness or hardness, Lord, soften their hearts again.

Tear up that foul ground within that may have been caused by real circumstances and real hurt and injustice, Lord.

And Lord, would you.

You just bring to the front view, right to the front of the mind, the cross and all that you endured.

And you said, forgive them, Lord, for they do not know what they're doing.

Lord, would we.

Would we have grace and forgiveness?

Lord, would you give the listeners grace to forgive those who have hurt them?

Praise God and Lord, give them a reawakened love to be in your house, that they wouldn't miss out on being in your house and the benefits of being in your house and connected to the body.

Lord, I ask that you would awake, awake, awake, awake.

Yeah.

Yeah.

These ones awaken their hearts, too.

The reality that their calling is not over, their purpose is not over.

I just feel like there's a listener who, man, really, you were on a path and something happened, a path for God, for big things in God.

And somebody cut in a.

And this has taken you off course.

And the Lord is just saying it's time to get up and that it's not over.

So, God, I thank you that you restore and you redeem, that you restore the years of the locust stole, Lord.

And I ask for full healing for every single heart.

Lord, I thank you for Amber, Lord.

I thank you for what she's doing, Lord, and the words that are going forth.

I thank you for these conversations.

I thank you for transparency.

Lord, may we go go deeper in you, further in you.

And may our Eyes be lifted to your son, Jesus.

Yes.

We love you, Lord.

Yes.

Amen.

Amen.

Amen.

Amen.

Oh, that was so good.

And I just, like, just to echo what Jen said, like, maybe reconsider.

Yeah, try again.

Maybe try again.

Because the body of Christ is beautiful.

Beautiful.

It is God's idea.

Yes.

The church is God's idea.

It's him.

And he has.

He's provided so many things within the body for you.

Like, and it's Him.

And so just reconsider.

If you are listening and you're like, you know, I haven't been in church since COVID or I haven't been to church in a long time or whatever that looks like, find yourself somewhere and just sit and ask God to give you a fresh perspective of his church, of Him.

And I believe that as you ask God, that He will reveal to you.

He will show up.

He's a good God.

He wants to lead you.

He's a very good shepherd.

He's a very good father, and he wants perfect, the best for you.

And so I just want to encourage you and echo what Gianni said, like, reconsider.

Find yourself at a local church.

Local church is so important.

It's not about the programs and the things to do.

It is all part of our spiritual transformation.

Yeah, we're just a bunch of renovated houses that just need Jesus more.

And so just reconsider that.

I just love that I wanted to echo that encouragement and.

Yeah, I really pray that this.

Well, I know that this conversation blessed many people.

It blessed me.

And I feel like there's so many people that are just in the limbo, you know, it's.

It's just an interesting time.

But I will say this, like, even with some statistics that you may hear about the church or like, the world political, all the different things, can I just interfere the chaos with.

There's a lot of really good things that are happening more than the bad.

Like, the Church of Christ is actually pretty bright right now.

There are really amazing things happening in the body globally that you'll probably never hear on CNN or anywhere else.

But just have hope and know.

And especially in our, you know, with Gen Z generation, like, it is skyrocketing.

The amount of salvations and overall church tendency just from their age group.

It's like God's doing something.

He is on the move.

He's asleep.

There are good things happening.

So just keep your hope up in that.

So.

Okay.

That was such a good conversation.

Thank you, Jenny.

That was amazing.

I. Yeah.

I just want to encourage you all like, if this episode has blessed you, like, share it with somebody, maybe somebody that's you becoming a member missionary in a sense.

Go share that with somebody that might need to hear that.

Share this episode with someone that may really need the encouragement because it'll bless them and it'll bless me as well on the end.

Other end.

Just like liking the podcast on all of our social media subscribing and also just leaving really good review on all of our podcast platforms does so much more than you know.

It's not about just like me reading a comment or me like saying, ooh, how popular it is.

It literally, literally pushes out our podcast episodes further out all over the world.

Every single time that you subscribe or that you like or that you leave a review, it just pushes it out.

And when I looked last on the map, I mean, we're all the way like, oh, was it Kenya?

We're in Argentina, we're all over the place.

And it's like such a blessing to know that God uses the small.

Yes.

And he just, he just does what he does best with it and he just grows it.

And so thank you you so much everyone for listening.

I hope this blessed you.

Be blessed.

Stay connected here worshipleaderpod.com if you ever want to stay connected, our newsletter or anything like that, just stay connected.

But I'm so thankful that you listened today and I hope you return.

Till then, Worship Leader Pod, we out.