0:00:00.800,0:00:08.400
a black executive perspective look man they
didn't get a chance to play chess they had to
0:00:08.400,0:00:14.920
play Checker Let's talk about it t openly and
honestly there was a lot of smart kids there
0:00:14.920,0:00:20.960
black executive perspective now my story is
not unique there's thousands of Professionals
0:00:20.960,0:00:27.800
of color who have experiences like mine a black
executive perspective whether you're aware of it
0:00:27.800,0:00:33.280
or not it's a topic that is often avoided we'll
discuss race and how it plays a factor and how we
0:00:33.280,0:00:41.800
didn't even talk about this topic cuz we were
afraid a black executive perspective Queen be
0:00:41.800,0:00:47.920
syndrome is a term used to describe a workplace
phenomenon in which a high-ranking female employee
0:00:47.920,0:00:53.960
usually a manager initiates and excludes her
female subordinates often leading to hostile
0:00:53.960,0:00:59.560
and uncomfortable work environment while the term
is often used to describe women in positions of
0:00:59.560,0:01:05.440
power it can also refer to any situation in which
a person in a position of authority abuses their
0:01:05.440,0:01:12.280
power to harm those beneath them in this episode
Erica Bennett will help us understand the signs
0:01:12.280,0:01:19.640
symptoms and how to avoid being a victim welcome
to a black executive perspective podcast a safe
0:01:19.640,0:01:26.960
space where we discuss all matters related to race
especially race in Corporate America I'm your host
0:01:26.960,0:01:33.760
your guide your Mastro your sensei Tony tidbit
and I've been in the corporate game for over 30
0:01:33.760,0:01:40.360
years so we're here to break down those Barriers
address the topic of race in the workplace so in
0:01:40.360,0:01:48.400
this episode women's empowerment and the queen be
syndrome Erica Bennett will help us understand the
0:01:48.400,0:01:55.160
queen be syndrome regarding women who pursue
individual success in a male dominating work
0:01:55.160,0:02:02.360
setting by adjusting to a masculine culture and
disting themselves from other women usually their
0:02:02.360,0:02:07.920
junior counterparts and listen at the end of the
day we all know women in leadership positions
0:02:07.920,0:02:13.600
almost always struggle to get to where they are
and one would assume that they would naturally
0:02:13.600,0:02:19.800
support other women in the same Quest however
in many corporate environments female leaders
0:02:19.800,0:02:26.800
can intentionally and unintentionally make it
more difficult for their female colleagues to
0:02:26.800,0:02:34.040
achieve the same Heights and for the female black
executive there exists even fewer opportunities
0:02:34.040,0:02:42.720
for advancement and Leadership so how do the two
experience relate how do they differ how can women
0:02:42.720,0:02:50.360
advocate for themselves in face of sexism from
men and women Erica Bennett welcome to a black
0:02:50.360,0:02:56.840
executive perspective podcast thank you and thank
you for that wonderful intro you know Erica has
0:02:56.840,0:03:02.400
been up since 6 o'clock in the morning working
on a new launch that they're doing so and she's
0:03:02.400,0:03:09.320
in La so she's already had a long day so again
we're very appreciative of you being able to
0:03:09.320,0:03:14.800
join a black executive perspective to talk about
a very important topic right um women empowerment
0:03:14.800,0:03:20.160
and the queen be syndrome so before we dive into
it tell us a little bit about you Erica give us a
0:03:20.160,0:03:24.640
little bit about your background Tony it's such
an honor to be here and thank you for having me
0:03:24.640,0:03:32.720
and you know my days start at 5 or 6 a.m. every
day so um you know my body is sort of used to
0:03:32.720,0:03:42.280
it so I appreciate um you having me on I I grew
up in Seattle Washington okay so um very kind of
0:03:42.280,0:03:53.320
interesting background equal parts like West Coast
hip hop and REI like camping granola girl so I did
0:03:53.320,0:03:59.640
it all um and I think it's just allowed me to
appreciate so many different ways to experience
0:03:59.640,0:04:06.400
experience our world so that's sort of me growing
up and as I mentioned I went to Chicago I sort
0:04:06.400,0:04:11.920
of feel like Chicago raised me in a way because
okay like I came into my own and developed my own
0:04:11.920,0:04:17.440
worldview and my own sense of purpose and Mission
in college I had you know I was very fortunate to
0:04:17.440,0:04:26.200
have incredible professors and incredible peers
who have now gone on to do wonderful things who um
0:04:26.200,0:04:33.600
all were a part of that growth for me and then you
know about a year after graduation from college I
0:04:33.600,0:04:42.160
moved to LA and my mission and purpose has always
been around representation for our people in media
0:04:42.160,0:04:47.800
um that has looked very different I thought I
could do it through the casting office and realize
0:04:47.800,0:04:54.840
I got to be at the network at the studio or I got
producer to really have like all the power right
0:04:54.840,0:05:02.120
right right and I sort of Miss being creative so
that sort of sparked this whole Journey For Me of
0:05:02.120,0:05:07.600
working across many different Industries working
with many different brands but all really in in
0:05:07.600,0:05:14.520
service of trying to find ways to um accurately
and authentically represent uh the black
0:05:14.520,0:05:20.600
experience here um both in the US and globally
that is awesome and and that's what we want to
0:05:20.600,0:05:27.880
dive into today in the terms of the accurately and
you know diving into the black experience and and
0:05:27.880,0:05:32.600
and again we can go into this a little bit when
we go into the queen bee syndrome you know and
0:05:32.600,0:05:38.480
one of the questions and I'll I'll get to there
shortly um but is the queen be is it is it just
0:05:38.480,0:05:44.360
for African-American people of color I mean I that
could probably could be something for any woman in
0:05:44.360,0:05:52.000
terms of leadership is that correct well I think
you have to think about the very you know you you
0:05:52.000,0:06:01.240
yourself kind of said it in your intro the number
of women that even kind of send to to a specific
0:06:01.240,0:06:11.920
place in their career is limited um by many
different factors uh gender bias in the workplace
0:06:11.920,0:06:20.400
the role of women you know in in culture and in
the home and in family um often is the woman that
0:06:20.400,0:06:29.680
is making sacrifices making um career choices to
be you know to better support family making and
0:06:29.680,0:06:38.160
decision planning um and so when we think about
women in general the the path to the Sea Suite
0:06:38.160,0:06:47.120
or the path to these executive roles is is not an
easy one so I I I don't think it is something that
0:06:47.120,0:06:56.840
is um specific to the black community I think it's
something that is much bigger and and much more
0:06:56.840,0:07:03.560
focused on when we look at all of the hurdles that
women face getting to the top and what women have
0:07:03.560,0:07:10.680
to do right either we have to make sacrifices
to or delay our family planning or we may have
0:07:10.680,0:07:19.960
to show up differently in the workplace and I
think all of those then impact how how we end
0:07:19.960,0:07:28.160
up interacting and how we relate to other people
in the workplace so right that's my take no no no
0:07:28.160,0:07:33.200
it's good and and we're going to dive deeper into
that but I love that answer because you know we
0:07:33.200,0:07:38.920
want to get an understanding um but also want to
get one final question to you an understanding of
0:07:38.920,0:07:45.200
you like I said you're very accomplished um you
have a mission you've talked about you know real
0:07:45.200,0:07:52.040
quickly about how Chicago raised you um you've
done a lot of things you've been um you know
0:07:52.040,0:07:56.600
you gotten accolades from different organizations
or different Publications in terms of who you are
0:07:56.600,0:08:02.240
the work that you do you talked a little bit about
how you know you thought you could be able to have
0:08:02.240,0:08:08.960
more power in one area but then you knew that I
had to move to this area to to actually run it to
0:08:08.960,0:08:15.640
have the power So speaking of that you have a lot
of talent you bring a lot to the table well what
0:08:15.640,0:08:26.600
is one superpower that you wish that you could
have you know I don't like to sit in the world
0:08:26.600,0:08:38.000
of lack I don't like to think about what I wish
I could have or what I wish I would have done um
0:08:38.000,0:08:47.760
every you know I I believe our life is very much
by Design and every place that I am in is a series
0:08:47.760,0:08:53.320
and a culmination of all the experiences I've
experienced along the way I mean I wish I was just
0:08:53.320,0:09:03.320
overall a little bit more organized and better at
my calendar but I'm not but but I you know I I'm
0:09:03.320,0:09:09.240
very grateful for my path and I'm very grateful
for the many different people who've taken me
0:09:09.240,0:09:18.320
under their wing and mentored me and I'm now
grateful for the opportunity to take um work in
0:09:18.320,0:09:28.640
the intersection of my my purpose and my passion
and what I think I am good at which is marketing
0:09:28.640,0:09:35.160
and bring all those worlds together and live in
that um every single day and and live in that so I
0:09:35.160,0:09:40.920
don't know that there's a superpower I wish I had
that I I don't have I don't know turn invisible
0:09:40.920,0:09:50.040
or but I I really try to operate in the present
um and I think I don't know I'm just so grateful
0:09:50.040,0:09:57.120
for what I do have right and it's I I don't think
about what I don't have and I don't try I try not
0:09:57.120,0:10:02.280
to sit in a place of lack but really come come
from a place of abundance you know what so that's
0:10:02.280,0:10:06.960
a great answer okay because at the end of the
day it is about looking at what you're blessed
0:10:06.960,0:10:12.600
with versus what you're what you don't have right
and yeah and having that mindset of abundance you
0:10:12.600,0:10:19.080
attract abundance so yeah and I also think you
know we just have to accept that we're human
0:10:19.080,0:10:28.600
beings and that we are naturally evolutionary
beings and I I am very open very aware of where
0:10:28.600,0:10:38.680
my blind spots are and as a leader I try to fill
my team with other leaders who are complimentary
0:10:38.680,0:10:45.240
to me and complimentary to each other and so
we all as one team f in the blind spots sort
0:10:45.240,0:10:49.400
of like a basketball team you know if you've got
somebody who's a really great long range shooter
0:10:49.400,0:10:55.360
you got to have a great rebounder on the other
side right if you've got somebody who's really
0:10:55.360,0:10:59.040
skilled at defense you've got to have someone
who's got hustle that can get back down the cour
0:10:59.040,0:11:06.120
support for the fast break so um you know I think
it's just really important for leaders to think
0:11:06.120,0:11:12.680
about um the ways that you can surround yourself
with expertise that you don't have and and that
0:11:12.680,0:11:20.280
way again it's not lack it is um understanding
your blind spots understanding where you might
0:11:20.280,0:11:26.320
have expertise coming into the team that is just
frankly better and I think good leaders know that
0:11:26.320,0:11:32.760
and they build teams that way and it creates
Pathways for other people to grow into exactly
0:11:32.760,0:11:38.880
well listen we we kind of gotten into it a little
bit so I love it I mean I love the warmup into you
0:11:38.880,0:11:43.400
know going right into the episode so Erica are
you ready to have this conversation I'm ready
0:11:43.400,0:11:49.280
to have it bring okay let's talk about it my girl
let's talk about it so you know one of the things
0:11:49.280,0:11:55.200
I always want to do because obviously there's
terms that you know it's like when you go to a
0:11:55.200,0:12:00.440
company and everybody talks in acronyms you know
we got to get the ab boo you know Blues together
0:12:00.440,0:12:03.920
and you're like what are they talking about
right so here I always want to make sure that
0:12:03.920,0:12:09.600
the audience follows along and understands so can
you just can you define what what is the queen be
0:12:09.600,0:12:19.360
queen bee syndrome what does that mean well it's
a term that's been given to um women in senior
0:12:19.360,0:12:33.720
positions um in any respective field um who uh May
themselves or push forward in the organization um
0:12:33.720,0:12:42.320
you know gender bias um or may kind of want to
hoard all the the power for themselves um it's
0:12:42.320,0:12:49.400
usually someone who experienced quite a bit of
success um in their career and it's typically
0:12:49.400,0:12:55.840
used to describe women who are really trying to
defend that position um so what that could look
0:12:55.840,0:13:05.920
like is um sort of um you know holding back other
people um those are some of the behaviors that are
0:13:05.920,0:13:15.200
typically associated with the Sy um with a queen
be syndrome so so and again uh you know why would
0:13:15.200,0:13:21.320
somebody do that so no and let's just back up a
little bit because you a few minutes ago you said
0:13:21.320,0:13:26.400
Tony all the things that women have to go through
to get to where they want get to where they want
0:13:26.400,0:13:31.560
to to be accomplished right they give up their
families they have to deal with you know being
0:13:31.560,0:13:37.120
one of the only few from a gender standpoint they
have to deal with you know the stereotypes that
0:13:37.120,0:13:42.160
people have already labeled on them you know and
we can keep going on and on and on and then they
0:13:42.160,0:13:47.840
finally get there and then all of a sudden they're
playing I'm going to use your basketball analogy
0:13:47.840,0:13:53.560
they're playing you know they're they're passing a
ball around the the perimeter of the of the court
0:13:53.560,0:13:58.480
and they're not really trying to help anybody else
score so especially knowing that they went through
0:13:58.480,0:14:08.120
all that why would they have this type of mindset
some people you know it's as a woman it's hard um
0:14:08.120,0:14:21.480
you know you oftentimes have to show up and be
even more persistent even more like there's so
0:14:21.480,0:14:28.920
much bias around around who women and who who we
how we should show up in the workplace um we we
0:14:28.920,0:14:35.880
can't be this way or we're angry we can't be this
way or we're this and so I'm not defending Queen
0:14:35.880,0:14:42.200
be syndrome but I am and I think it's important
that we all acknowledge the difficulty with which
0:14:42.200,0:14:49.880
women in particular and in particular black women
have to show up in role just to get get halfway
0:14:49.880,0:14:55.920
to where their male counterparts are we have to
show up strong and convicted and we have to be
0:14:55.920,0:15:01.840
researched and we have to you know be buttoned
up and zipped up in how we present strategy and
0:15:01.840,0:15:09.040
we have to be prepared to defend it and and so I I
think that a lot of times what happens is there's
0:15:09.040,0:15:15.720
probably a subset of women who just don't who
lack the self-awareness to even understand that
0:15:15.720,0:15:21.400
they're just doing what they've always done to
get to the level that they've done so and then
0:15:21.400,0:15:26.360
there's probably a subset where it's maybe a
little bit more intentional and that comes with
0:15:26.360,0:15:34.120
um deep rooted insecurity because women have
consistently throughout history and throughout
0:15:34.120,0:15:41.440
our lives been told these are the spaces that
you are equipped to occupy and these are the
0:15:41.440,0:15:47.160
spaces that you're not equipped to occupy and
so there's probably a mix of both but I think
0:15:47.160,0:15:55.200
it really stems from having to fight every day
just to get the foot in the door just to be in
0:15:55.200,0:16:03.800
the room to be heard to be um for your voice to
be understood for um for you to be respected in
0:16:03.800,0:16:11.080
the same way as your male counterparts so and and
so where I struggle is that and let me tell you a
0:16:11.080,0:16:17.720
quick little story sure so in which is it's it's
a different dynamic as being a male black versus
0:16:17.720,0:16:24.120
being a female black right so I recognize even
though you know the doors that I wasn't a lot
0:16:24.120,0:16:28.960
of doors open a lot of places the majority of
places I was the only black person especially
0:16:28.960,0:16:34.880
as I got up into leadership positions okay so and
I understand women you know even if you look at
0:16:34.880,0:16:41.080
the the the pay Equity you know males make more
money than women right and and and I don't my
0:16:41.080,0:16:46.360
wife she works but at the end of the day you know
she you know my mindset is totally different than
0:16:46.360,0:16:52.160
her mindset when it comes to our kids and stuff
to that nature in terms of her having a career so
0:16:52.160,0:16:57.640
there's it's not apples versus apples okay so
however I remember and I'm just going to give
0:16:57.640,0:17:06.840
you you know my little story here I remember being
in an organization again I'm in advertising sales
0:17:06.840,0:17:11.720
you know I've been at the VP level I I didn't
see a lot of people look like me okay and I
0:17:11.720,0:17:17.480
remember going to this event no I take this back
I remember this company was trying to recruit me
0:17:17.480,0:17:23.480
to come over and when I came over and I met with
the chief Revenue officer um there was a another
0:17:23.480,0:17:28.600
black guy all right and he was a VP there right
and you know and obviously you know how it goes
0:17:28.600,0:17:34.400
right when you go where and they they're like Yeah
Joe works here too so in other words it's like is
0:17:34.400,0:17:41.560
we got we got a black VP too all right that you
so but whatever whatever whatever whatever right
0:17:41.560,0:17:49.360
so I I I saw I waved at he waved at me but then I
saw the guy at some event and I saw him and again
0:17:49.360,0:17:55.000
there wasn't a lot of other people of color there
so I went up to him to have a conversation and he
0:17:55.000,0:18:00.720
was really standoffish he was like you know he had
a force field around like he really didn't want to
0:18:00.720,0:18:06.360
talk to me and but he was chatting with everybody
else but he didn't and I'm not talking to people
0:18:06.360,0:18:12.640
C he talking other but he he didn't really want
to like warm up to me and I really I really I
0:18:12.640,0:18:19.480
mean it was I was shocked at that because in my
position I've always tried to help other people
0:18:19.480,0:18:25.640
you know either break into the industry move up in
the industry provide counsel to them in terms of
0:18:25.640,0:18:33.560
how to navigate the industry of corporate America
America so I I I've seen that um on from a male
0:18:33.560,0:18:41.160
standpoint so so where I struggle is is when I I I
get it that women have to go through a lot however
0:18:41.160,0:18:45.440
knowing that you went through a lot and let's just
back up because you just said something you said
0:18:45.440,0:18:51.560
earlier about how you know your blind spots but
your thing is about helping your team be able
0:18:51.560,0:18:57.920
to play helping them become leaders you fought
through a you you had to bust down a lot of doors
0:18:57.920,0:19:03.680
you had had to deal with a bunch of so why are
you more open to saying hey I'm going bring people
0:19:03.680,0:19:14.880
along versus somebody else who's like nah work you
know figure it out yourself yeah I mean one I've
0:19:14.880,0:19:26.280
I've seen the value in it I I've seen the value
in it um but two um I've done the work I think
0:19:26.280,0:19:34.120
that um I always tell my team I work for them and
not the other way around so that sort of servant
0:19:34.120,0:19:38.800
leadership is really critical I think a lot of
times people are giving these positions of power
0:19:38.800,0:19:45.800
and they're not taught how to like actually be a
good boss actually be a good coach and actually be
0:19:45.800,0:19:55.120
a good Mentor and I think there is something so
deep seated and deep rooted in terms of our own
0:19:55.120,0:20:03.760
sense of selfworth Our Own sense of value value
and purpose and a lot of people just haven't done
0:20:03.760,0:20:10.160
the work they have not done the work on themselves
and so what you have are deeply insecure people
0:20:10.160,0:20:15.520
right who've been told their entire life you're
not supposed to be here we're gonna make it so
0:20:15.520,0:20:23.880
hard to get here and then when they get into these
positions of power um it it becomes their undoing
0:20:23.880,0:20:32.880
in a way because all of their insecurities just
come flowing out um I I I need to be at the top
0:20:32.880,0:20:39.120
I'm threatened by anyone else who might seem like
they could take my position at any point in time
0:20:39.120,0:20:44.840
um that just comes from just such a deep place of
insecurity and it's a place that I've just done
0:20:44.840,0:20:50.720
the work on I don't have it or you know I have
my own insecurities but with respect to team and
0:20:50.720,0:20:59.680
bringing people along and allowing people to shine
it's um I have the mindset that I work for them
0:20:59.680,0:21:07.640
anyway so it allows me to it allows me to approach
it just differently it really does so how much of
0:21:07.640,0:21:18.440
this is a character flaw so in other words that
you know people who are in leadership positions
0:21:18.440,0:21:25.840
right at the end of the day they're really out
for themselves they've never they're they're
0:21:25.840,0:21:33.200
they've never been a team oriented individual ual
versus people who are team or oriented individuals
0:21:33.200,0:21:39.240
no matter what position that they get they're
always going to be focused on the teams so do you
0:21:39.240,0:21:44.520
see couldn't this be just and I don't want to say
it's only a character flaw but could you see this
0:21:44.520,0:21:50.280
being part of a character flaw absolutely right
absolutely it can be a part of a character flaw
0:21:50.280,0:21:58.560
listen my approach to leadership is very different
and a lot of times people mistake my my kindness
0:21:58.560,0:22:06.760
for weakness and so they try to exploit that
and take advantage of that so I I realize that
0:22:06.760,0:22:15.360
there are other consequences that come along with
being principled in my approach to leadership and
0:22:15.360,0:22:25.560
to Bringing people along in their career Journeys
right and um so it absolutely is a charact it can
0:22:25.560,0:22:32.160
be a character FL on the other side of that
right and it it's you know we really have to
0:22:32.160,0:22:41.400
start to examine what are the triggers what are
the inputs that are driving the insecurity that
0:22:41.400,0:22:48.440
allow us to treat others the way that we treat
them when we get to positions of power and I I
0:22:48.440,0:22:56.480
had to do it myself early on in my career I was
a firsttime VP and I had this team and it came
0:22:56.480,0:23:05.160
from a really good place but I was was a hard
boss I was tough MH it came because I wanted I
0:23:05.160,0:23:10.640
wanted this team to just be looked at and seen
as the best but the real underlying insecurity
0:23:10.640,0:23:20.200
was I didn't want the department to fail and once
I got once I understood that that that was about
0:23:20.200,0:23:30.400
my own insecurity around failure as opposed to
you know um you know wanting to set everybody
0:23:30.400,0:23:37.160
up for success as I articulated it allowed me
to show up in a different and more human way
0:23:37.160,0:23:42.480
in the workplace and I learned it later I mean I
was tough for a couple years it was really hard
0:23:42.480,0:23:48.200
to work for me so when you say tough like what
do you mean give me some examples of tough you
0:23:48.200,0:23:56.360
know I was just really tough in terms of like
I wasn't mean or disrespectful or any of that
0:23:56.360,0:24:04.240
so it wasn't it wasn't a dis respect thing but
um I didn't create enough room for failure and
0:24:04.240,0:24:10.880
growth and learning through failure um I wanted
us to just get it right and and and so I put in
0:24:10.880,0:24:19.200
a lot of fail safes so that we got it right
you know what I mean and so that the business
0:24:19.200,0:24:24.240
wouldn't the pipeline wouldn't go away and so that
we get hired for more jobs and so that we wouldn't
0:24:24.240,0:24:28.480
just be competing with other black agencies
we'd actually be be comp meeting with every
0:24:28.480,0:24:34.560
agency right right and we did we accomplished
all of that and I'm so proud of that the what
0:24:34.560,0:24:40.360
is incredible the how we got there for the first
year or two was intense and guess what it drained
0:24:40.360,0:24:46.440
me it exhausted me as a leader it it and when you
say it exhausted you as a leader like what do you
0:24:46.440,0:24:54.880
mean by exhausted you as a leader it exhausted
me to to constantly be like maniacal about every
0:24:54.880,0:25:03.080
little word and comma and period and hat every
little you know detail when in reality I had
0:25:03.080,0:25:08.040
a superstar Allstar team and I should have just
been really confident in the work that they could
0:25:08.040,0:25:15.440
do right and so you know a couple years into the
role I really started to understand that concept
0:25:15.440,0:25:21.840
and again it came down to me doing the my own
work my own self-discovery to realize oh I have
0:25:21.840,0:25:30.600
a deep-seated fear of failing failing this team
failing the company and failing myself self and
0:25:30.600,0:25:35.920
that I need to address because we're not failing
we're doing very well financially and you know
0:25:35.920,0:25:41.760
we're doing very well in the industry and once
I sort of let go of that there was more freedom
0:25:41.760,0:25:47.600
for people and we flourished more because this
person had a great idea and we weren't picking it
0:25:47.600,0:25:54.120
apart we were adding to it to make it better right
this person was really good and really tapped into
0:25:54.120,0:26:00.520
social media and even though they were a junior
coordinator I'm going to let them run with this
0:26:00.520,0:26:06.640
because they can add value in ways that no other
agency could so as soon as I started to kind of
0:26:06.640,0:26:15.800
shed the fears of failure and really embrace the
um embrace the abundance that could come from
0:26:15.800,0:26:21.120
giving people the freedom to just do what they
do and if we fail along the way we fail along
0:26:21.120,0:26:27.600
the way we we learn we pick ourselves back up and
we keep going so do you think we never broke it so
0:26:28.800,0:26:33.960
so do you think this was just something that you
discovered or do you or you went through or do
0:26:33.960,0:26:40.720
you think this is something that the majority of
people in a leadership position at a certain level
0:26:40.720,0:26:47.160
go goes through I think I think a lot of a lot
of people at a certain level especially when you
0:26:47.160,0:26:56.520
get in the sea Suite I'm here it's hard there's a
lot very high expectation and a lot that the team
0:26:56.520,0:27:04.320
my team and that I have to deliver as part of an
executive team right I'm responsible for ensuring
0:27:04.320,0:27:11.040
that the that a brand that has been around for 50
years that I adore and other brands that have now
0:27:11.040,0:27:16.960
come into the family that they succeed so it's
a lot of pressure it is a lot of pressure and
0:27:16.960,0:27:21.560
I think um some people don't ever learn that um
until they get to the higher levels and that's
0:27:21.560,0:27:29.000
when you have dynamics that are that are like what
we have dubbed the queen bee syndrome yeah I I so
0:27:29.000,0:27:34.880
number one thank you for sharing that number two
I can I'm and I'm pretty sure my audience a lot of
0:27:34.880,0:27:39.760
people in the audience would is it would relate
to what you said especially if they've been in
0:27:39.760,0:27:44.680
leadership positions because to be honest Erica
I did the exact same thing when I first got into
0:27:44.680,0:27:52.080
leadership position right it was about my fear
failure it was about I and and it was more um
0:27:52.080,0:27:58.800
and I didn't think this way at the time but I knew
it was part of the motivation I'm the only black
0:27:58.800,0:28:05.960
leader here I never said that I never you know but
I know you know from a unconscious standpoint it
0:28:05.960,0:28:12.360
was part of the motivation right so I can't fail
right and so what did I do I microman I want to
0:28:12.360,0:28:19.680
say micromanage but I didn't let my team fail okay
and so I held their hands all the way through and
0:28:19.680,0:28:25.880
then to be fair so but to your point there was
an Awakening there was a reflection when I was
0:28:25.880,0:28:32.080
like you know what they're smart they're Talent
let them just do their thing and just trust them
0:28:32.080,0:28:38.560
and then when I was able to do that that's when
not only that we continue to grow but they grew
0:28:38.560,0:28:44.040
and then they became VPS or whatever the case
may be right so so number one I thank you for
0:28:44.040,0:28:49.800
sharing that but that's the point I want to get
to is is part of that because there's not a lot
0:28:49.800,0:28:58.800
of few there's not a lot of black female CMOS okay
so is that the added pressure that you dealt with
0:28:58.800,0:29:05.280
when you when you're working with your team yeah I
mean we were we were an all black team when I was
0:29:05.280,0:29:12.000
when I first became a VP we were all black and
yeah there was so much of our racial identity
0:29:12.000,0:29:19.400
was wrapped up into it right like and a lot of
it was me really playing to bias it was um well
0:29:19.400,0:29:26.880
they don't they don't understand the power of the
black dollar which is very true they expect us to
0:29:26.880,0:29:33.440
operate in a certain way because we are an all
black team they expect for these things and so I
0:29:33.440,0:29:41.160
was really trying to demonstrate that you could
have an all black team that was going to overd
0:29:41.160,0:29:49.320
deliver every time that was going to just kill it
um that was just as good or better as any agency
0:29:49.320,0:29:55.560
not just the black agencies like those were the
narratives I was trying to overcome and I I sent
0:29:55.560,0:30:01.600
I because that was the first first time I was
really fully operating in my professional and
0:30:01.600,0:30:14.480
personal mission I had a high desire to make sure
that the industry understood um the importance and
0:30:14.480,0:30:22.200
weight of the audience and that they respected it
and that they honored it and that the work I did
0:30:22.200,0:30:30.000
was a forcing function for that respect and for
that honor so um yeah I felt like very heavy on
0:30:30.000,0:30:35.600
my shoulders you're carrying a lot of stuff still
yeah I still feel that way but time and experience
0:30:35.600,0:30:42.840
has taught me that there are many different paths
to the same outcome and that you know I still got
0:30:42.840,0:30:49.960
to let my team grow and learn even though there's
there's you know pretty pretty high states there
0:30:49.960,0:30:56.240
so based on and and again thanks for sharing that
because that is a lot to carry okay that's a a
0:30:56.240,0:31:02.680
lot to carry and you talked about the different
thoughts that uh you know this is a black team so
0:31:02.680,0:31:07.920
you know the different narratives that people
probably were thinking or you know different
0:31:07.920,0:31:14.040
stereotypes that were probably because it is an
all black team so that's a lot to deal with okay
0:31:14.040,0:31:19.000
so it's interesting right sometimes you work in
an area where you're the only black person then
0:31:19.000,0:31:25.720
you work in an area where you work in you the
black team okay and it carries so many different
0:31:25.720,0:31:34.080
weights and thoughts it's just amazing right it's
so what would you recommend for the ladies that's
0:31:34.080,0:31:39.080
out there that let's be fair they work their butt
off let's just go back to what we talked about in
0:31:39.080,0:31:46.000
the beginning they deal with a lot they they
they you know overcame a lot to get to their
0:31:46.000,0:31:53.240
position how would you help them understand or
how would you help them not fall into the queen
0:31:53.240,0:32:00.120
bee syndrome and be more of about the entire team
and help other women be able to pull themselves
0:32:00.120,0:32:09.440
up I think you have to go inward first you know I
think um that's what I ultimately had to do was go
0:32:09.440,0:32:16.560
Inward and when you say go inward what like what
do you mean go inward I mean self-examine self do
0:32:16.560,0:32:27.480
the self-work do the do the the work internally
to understand what are my fears what are my bias
0:32:27.480,0:32:35.520
es you know what am I solving for as an
individual so that you can show up as your
0:32:35.520,0:32:44.000
best self um I don't think I would have gotten
to a place where how I operate now if I didn't
0:32:44.000,0:32:51.080
go Inward and understand okay this is about
your fear of failure this is about you caring
0:32:51.080,0:32:58.240
more on your shoulders than you actually need
to that's more this is a an industry issue and
0:32:58.240,0:33:03.640
you don't need to take the whole entertainment
industry and put it on your back and March it
0:33:03.640,0:33:13.040
down the road that through consistent meaningful
work across a variety of different Entertainment
0:33:13.040,0:33:21.240
Properties and projects you can actually show that
iteratively versus let's just try to take on the
0:33:21.240,0:33:28.760
whole project the whole problem all at once so it
was a lot of like self-work and self reflection
0:33:28.760,0:33:36.840
um and then it's continued self-awareness as I
Ascend um I'm constantly checking for biases and
0:33:36.840,0:33:43.200
I'm not perfect I still have them I'm constantly
checking for my insecurities I'm still have them
0:33:43.200,0:33:50.680
I'm not perfect but I think if you understand
like I said to be human is to be evolutionary
0:33:50.680,0:33:56.200
um so that's the first step is to go Inward and
the second the second step is to leave room for
0:33:56.200,0:34:04.560
failure and you got to just be comfortable
with falling down a million times and be just
0:34:04.560,0:34:13.320
as comfortable with getting up a million in one
times um and until I learned how to sit in the
0:34:13.320,0:34:20.000
discomfort of failure and sit in the discomfort of
ambiguity and all that comes with what I perceive
0:34:20.000,0:34:30.800
as failure um it I I couldn't understand how to
not allow that to be the The Guiding Light that
0:34:30.800,0:34:37.080
bring that you know that drives me every day
towards success and the third thing is I think
0:34:37.080,0:34:44.840
you have to reframe your definition of failure
is it is it truly a failure if this doesn't
0:34:44.840,0:34:56.960
happen so really getting crisp on what failure
even looks like right right I had such high
0:34:56.960,0:35:03.760
standards I still do for myself that like if I
delivered a document and just was like did not
0:35:03.760,0:35:11.200
have the right eye dotted or t cross that I was
like guys what are we doing what are we even doing
0:35:11.200,0:35:20.200
do you know what I mean so I okay failure might
be we didn't hit this number or whatever but is
0:35:20.200,0:35:29.760
it really this thing over here that's probably not
a failure so you know again I would say um going
0:35:29.760,0:35:38.640
inward right I would say um being uncomfortable
sitting in that discomfort a failure and the third
0:35:38.640,0:35:47.760
being leaving even leaving room and reframing
definition of failure could be is would would
0:35:47.760,0:35:57.760
would would um the makeup of your team in terms
of you coaching them and getting the best out of
0:35:57.760,0:36:07.800
them and they become a players in the organization
is that a success absolutely absolutely absolutely
0:36:07.800,0:36:12.240
right I did an interview once and they asked
me like what is your biggest success everything
0:36:12.240,0:36:18.720
you've done and I was like looking around the
industry and seeing people who started out as
0:36:18.720,0:36:26.240
like interns and Junior coordinators who are now
running multi-million dollar film campaigns or who
0:36:26.240,0:36:34.400
are now running whole comms departments or who
are now um who have stepped out into the world
0:36:34.400,0:36:46.320
of Entrepreneurship all of that is is um is off
your tree right L my mind and I you know don't
0:36:46.320,0:36:54.000
want to take credit and take credit but um no
but it's incredible right so if you help other
0:36:54.000,0:37:00.640
individuals that's the point here right right
if you help other visuals individuals grow and
0:37:00.640,0:37:08.400
they become leaders right that's a success as well
right isn't your bosses or the company looking I
0:37:08.400,0:37:14.040
always taught my team this it's like look at the
end of the day it's it's not that I'm I'm gonna
0:37:14.040,0:37:20.520
help build your brand so I'm gonna not just keep
you under my thumb I'm gonna tell everybody how
0:37:20.520,0:37:26.760
great you are but here's the kicker you need to
also build your brand because this is when I know
0:37:26.760,0:37:33.640
building your brand is when I say something about
you gab and somebody say oh gab she's awesome or
0:37:33.640,0:37:40.000
Tony your team is great you know everybody in your
team you see my point here that's a success as
0:37:40.000,0:37:45.920
well right so I think that's where we want to get
everyone in terms of empowering and helping other
0:37:45.920,0:37:50.760
individuals take it to the next level well and
we don't often Place enough value on that right
0:37:50.760,0:37:58.320
like I think we think of success as did we hit
our Revenue numbers did we hit this did we hit
0:37:58.320,0:38:06.960
that one of the more interesting barometers of
success or kpis I was interviewing for a role
0:38:06.960,0:38:16.200
and I asked them like you know what's your kind of
goal on the people's side and they said I want to
0:38:16.200,0:38:23.240
get that phone call from when the person leaves
my company goes to the next job and the boss at
0:38:23.240,0:38:30.040
the next job calls me and goes wow this person is
an absolute star because the reality is we're not
0:38:30.040,0:38:36.480
all going to stay stay in the same place forever
you know no our interest change our needs in terms
0:38:36.480,0:38:43.520
of professional development change so how how
then can we think about um getting people ready
0:38:43.520,0:38:51.720
for the next thing and and speak like and speaking
of that how how so your love because obviously you
0:38:51.720,0:38:58.760
you've had a lot of different roles at different
organizations so how can an organization get more
0:38:58.760,0:39:06.560
women um in leadership positions how can they
cultivate and train especially women of color
0:39:06.560,0:39:12.600
different backgrounds um so there there's less of
a queen be syndrome and it's more about putting
0:39:12.600,0:39:19.600
more people more women in positions that they
can be able to fly and grow themselves yeah I
0:39:19.600,0:39:28.240
mean I've been really fortunate um worked under
some pretty Dynamic women and black women I work
0:39:28.240,0:39:37.760
under I work with Dynamic black women every day
so I'm very fortunate I think that um you know I
0:39:37.760,0:39:45.760
go back to what I said earlier about why I think
that behavior may show up um among women or among
0:39:45.760,0:39:54.600
women of color and it I truly believe it a lot
of it has to do with the way that women have to
0:39:54.600,0:40:00.920
fight and so removing some of those obstacles
and biases right and you know you talked about
0:40:00.920,0:40:10.640
how can we coach women I was just as qualified
if not more than a lot of my male counterparts
0:40:10.640,0:40:18.760
and was not given the same opportunity so it
wasn't a coaching issue it was it was an access
0:40:18.760,0:40:24.600
issue it was a sponsorship issue so when you say
access sponsorship is issue be a little bit more
0:40:24.600,0:40:31.760
specific like what do you mean meetings someone
in the room going we we should give Erica this
0:40:31.760,0:40:40.000
opportunity somebody talking on your behalf
we should yeah or someone kind of working to
0:40:40.000,0:40:46.640
co-c conspire in the same way that men get these
opportunities so I think clear the path women are
0:40:46.640,0:40:53.800
qualified yes sure coaching but also acknowledging
when they are qualified putting them up for the
0:40:53.800,0:41:01.720
role and not making it so so difficult to get
into these positions is critical right and then
0:41:01.720,0:41:06.400
of course there's work that needs to be done on
the individual but I think when you have a group
0:41:06.400,0:41:13.200
of people who've been conditioned over time to to
believe a certain thing about themselves they are
0:41:13.200,0:41:18.400
fighting again they are fighting an internal
Battle of their own insecurities and and you
0:41:18.400,0:41:26.040
know what that is an excellent point and and and
that's the the thing that's not spoken about a lot
0:41:26.040,0:41:33.240
right right is when you show up you already have
a bunch of baggage that you have to deal with all
0:41:33.240,0:41:40.240
right so excellent excellent thought there so we
talked about superpowers earlier and you said hey
0:41:40.240,0:41:47.160
you know what I really you know I'm just I'm I'm
blessed and I you know it's all about abundance
0:41:47.160,0:41:52.480
the you wanted to hear no no no no no no it's all
good but I'm gonna go right back to that a little
0:41:52.480,0:41:59.760
bit right so for my audience who's listening
to a black executive perspective the female
0:41:59.760,0:42:06.480
the lady who is bringing everything to the table
they they're playing chess not Checkers they're
0:42:06.480,0:42:13.520
working hard they they're they're building their
brand within the organization um they aspire to
0:42:13.520,0:42:20.720
be where uh Erica Bennett is they want to be CMO
or CEO cro whatever or run their own business what
0:42:20.720,0:42:25.880
the case may be what what three or four bullets
would you give them knowing all knowing there's
0:42:25.880,0:42:30.400
a bunch of tank traps knowing there's a bunch
of stuff that they going to have to overcome be
0:42:30.400,0:42:34.480
traps everywhere there's going to be a million
traps right there going to be a million traps
0:42:34.480,0:42:40.480
all right we know that they know that so how how
can they navigate give them some some feedback
0:42:40.480,0:42:48.920
some background four or five bullets in terms how
they could do that I think first of all um like
0:42:48.920,0:42:56.280
kind of surrendering to the process I spent years
years even in more recent roles be like what what
0:42:56.280,0:43:05.720
am I doing what is happening and now at the
role I sit in where I've gotta I'm probably
0:43:05.720,0:43:13.640
a rare CMO because I've done almost every job in
my department but I've got to not only understand
0:43:13.640,0:43:20.440
what everyone does but then figure out how all
of that moves our business and Company objectives
0:43:20.440,0:43:30.280
forward um so the years I spent like huh how did
I up been social of all places and now social is
0:43:30.280,0:43:37.480
a critical part of our business we published well
Essence is a publisher um right so so they need
0:43:37.480,0:43:42.560
to be a student of the business understand the
surrender to the process surrender to the process
0:43:42.560,0:43:49.240
this doesn't mean you throw intentionality out the
window but I think it means you can um understand
0:43:49.240,0:43:55.680
where you want to get and it's okay to kind of
take a windy road to get there it's not always
0:43:55.680,0:44:02.520
linear corre a really great mentor of mine said
you should be thinking of your career like a
0:44:02.520,0:44:11.360
suitcase so if you're CML what are the things in
each pocket and in each part of the compartment
0:44:11.360,0:44:20.360
of the suitcase do you need in order to tell a
story so I maybe like three years ago started
0:44:20.360,0:44:28.600
reading the job description of a CMO and I'm like
oh and I highlighted okay well I'm not quite there
0:44:28.600,0:44:34.520
yet on this I'm not quite there on this I'm not
quite there on this and I basically turn that
0:44:34.520,0:44:42.000
into my learning agenda at these companies and
I'm like okay I I need more experience running
0:44:42.000,0:44:48.160
a budget of this size what what could that look
like to do that and really partnering with my
0:44:48.160,0:44:56.160
managers and leaders to say hey I want to I want
to step up and own that um so say tell them what
0:44:56.160,0:45:04.760
you want be straight up let them know where you
want to go yeah and and uh you don't have to say
0:45:04.760,0:45:10.240
I'm trying to be the CMO one day I'm trying to
have your job but what you could say is here are
0:45:10.240,0:45:13.760
some things I'm really interested here's some
skill sets I'm really interested in building
0:45:13.760,0:45:19.080
out and this is where I need your support and the
good manager is like you know you could use your
0:45:19.080,0:45:24.440
review you could use your one-on ones the good
managers really appreciate that you're thinking
0:45:24.440,0:45:28.720
about your own career and taking it into your
hands and coming to them with a road map and a
0:45:28.720,0:45:34.200
plan hey that project that I heard about in the
staff meeting yeah remember when we talked about
0:45:34.200,0:45:41.920
like I'm really I think I can do that and here's
how that connects so I think surrendering to the
0:45:41.920,0:45:49.000
process being super open under and but being
intentional right understanding what skill sets
0:45:49.000,0:45:57.240
you need and treating you know every job every
role having a learning agenda and having sort of
0:45:57.240,0:46:01.160
like these are the things I want to accomplish and
get out of it I still have a learning agenda and
0:46:01.160,0:46:07.160
my CMO role um we're not I'm never done learning
and I have a list of all the things that I want
0:46:07.160,0:46:15.560
to accomplish that I made when I joined and you
know scratching those off slowly but surely um
0:46:15.560,0:46:22.720
and then I think um understanding when it's time
to go and understanding when you're just really
0:46:22.720,0:46:30.080
uncomfortable that is so can you just spend
a couple minutes on that real quick because
0:46:30.080,0:46:36.480
I think that's where the majority of us fail all
right not knowing when it's time to cut out yeah
0:46:36.480,0:46:40.520
okay well I also think under you got to know the
difference between the two because there have been
0:46:40.520,0:46:45.120
times where I've probably cut out and I should
have stayed and there are times where oh I stayed
0:46:45.120,0:46:53.440
way too long right and neither of those are good
right so again having that road map having that
0:46:53.440,0:46:57.600
agenda being very intentional about what you want
to give give to the organization what you want to
0:46:57.600,0:47:02.520
get out of the organization before you leave helps
you understand it's time to go I've been I've had
0:47:02.520,0:47:07.960
jobs where I was enroll for one year and I was
like you know what I got what I needed I'm out
0:47:07.960,0:47:13.200
and it was intentional and purposeful and it
was and I had a clear so when I'm talking to
0:47:13.200,0:47:18.520
these recruiters there's a narrative there it's
not just like I peeled out because I hated it
0:47:18.520,0:47:24.160
you know um and then there are roles there are
companies where I switched roles after two years
0:47:24.160,0:47:30.400
so you know my time at YouTube's a great example
of that I got really great experience there
0:47:30.400,0:47:38.840
I mean marketing strategy no one does it like
YouTube so it's was very very um impactful for
0:47:38.840,0:47:44.960
me I spent two years on social and then you know
our business priorities shifted and it was time
0:47:44.960,0:47:52.080
for me to move into something else and this role
working with communities and creators was like a
0:47:52.080,0:47:58.920
huge passion point for me right and so I I think I
think you have to just know and then at a certain
0:47:58.920,0:48:04.240
point I was like okay where else can I go nowhere
else to go maybe time to peel out and I went back
0:48:04.240,0:48:11.800
to my list and I'm like look at all the things
launches successful shows for YouTube business
0:48:11.800,0:48:24.600
impact marketing impact personal brand impact okay
this might be a good time awesome you know um I
0:48:24.600,0:48:28.920
really appreciate you sharing in because at the
end of the day there's somebody I know this for
0:48:28.920,0:48:34.640
a fact I know this for a fact I don't know their
names I don't know what part of the country that
0:48:34.640,0:48:39.840
they're in I don't know what they do for a job
they may be in high school or they could be you
0:48:39.840,0:48:44.080
know 50 years old looking for something else or
you know looking for a change or a bump in their
0:48:44.080,0:48:49.640
career somebody's going to hear what you said
and they're going to put it in action and they're
0:48:49.640,0:48:56.480
going to make it happen and you know why because
they see you and they know hey there's somebody
0:48:56.480,0:49:02.320
out there who's gotten to where I want to go and
they look like me it's not going to be easy lot
0:49:02.320,0:49:09.760
of tank traps lot of stuff along the way right but
I see Erica she seems she talked about helping and
0:49:09.760,0:49:17.360
empowering her team I don't have to be the queen
bee syndrome you know I can be able to you know
0:49:17.360,0:49:22.560
understand the process throughout the company be
able to intentionally let people know where I want
0:49:22.560,0:49:28.640
to go go I love the suitcase analogy right what
pieces are missing what what do I need to put in
0:49:28.640,0:49:34.120
this pocket right here to make sure I have a full
suitcase and then I love the last thing you said
0:49:34.120,0:49:40.200
you know understanding when it's time to move
on or making sure you're not leaving too early
0:49:40.200,0:49:45.640
um because there may be still things that you have
to to to do to to get to where you want to go yeah
0:49:45.640,0:49:54.640
what better way to learn than on someone's time
that dime I think yeah it's so true right um final
0:49:54.640,0:50:05.640
thoughts Erica final thoughts um I think getting
clear early about the type of leader you want to
0:50:05.640,0:50:13.560
be and staying unwavering in that is critical
and I think then that allows you to show up in
0:50:13.560,0:50:20.520
the best way possible it allows you to support
people's career their career aspirations um it
0:50:20.520,0:50:28.840
helps with your own um and you know I think that's
the most important thing is just going within and
0:50:28.840,0:50:34.520
figure out who you want to be and how you want
to show up in the world and then actually do
0:50:34.520,0:50:42.680
that okay well number one we really appreciate
you today you provided us a lot of value a lot
0:50:42.680,0:50:48.520
of thoughts and obviously it's been a long day for
you so really appreciate I know and you got to go
0:50:48.520,0:50:54.120
back you know you got stuff you still got to do so
Erica Bennett love you a lot thanks a lot wishing
0:50:54.120,0:51:01.280
you nothing but mad success what a pleasure
thank you so much well I hope you really enjoyed
0:51:01.280,0:51:08.400
as I did uh black a black executive perspective
podcast episode women's empowerment and the Queen
0:51:08.400,0:51:17.440
B syndrome so our tidbit today is and it's from
Stephanie Courier founder of inter igoris women
0:51:17.440,0:51:23.440
and Stephanie said I've always subscribed to the
belief that the best leader is not the one who has
0:51:23.440,0:51:30.120
the most followers but the one who creates the
most leaders I've strive every day to create a
0:51:30.120,0:51:39.320
more conscious confident and Soulful leaders who
on return will build a better world for us all and
0:51:39.320,0:51:46.560
that's by Stephan Le Cotler so I hope you enjoyed
this session of women's empowerment and the queen
0:51:46.560,0:51:52.120
bee syndrome please leave us some feedback let us
know that you really like this this was horrible
0:51:52.120,0:51:57.760
Tony you know you should have just let her talk by
yourself right give us all type of feedback right
0:51:57.760,0:52:02.760
what's some of the things that you learned today
what questions do you still have right what's some
0:52:02.760,0:52:08.400
solutions that you may uh have in terms of the
queen bee syndrome and women's empowerment so
0:52:08.400,0:52:14.400
please provide us your thoughts and feedback
at a black executive perspective.com and then
0:52:14.400,0:52:19.880
what we'll do in our next episode we'll go through
that feedback answer your questions and eventually
0:52:19.880,0:52:26.680
we're going to have you come on and join me here
as a guest on a black EXE cutive perspective.com
0:52:26.680,0:52:32.560
so just recognize you can always find a black
executive perspective podcast wherever you get
0:52:32.560,0:52:39.320
your podcast come back and join us and let's talk
about it thank you for tuning in to this episode
0:52:39.320,0:52:46.560
of Tony tidbit a black executive perspective
and for joining in today's conversation with
0:52:46.560,0:52:53.760
every story We Share every conversation we Foster
and every barrier we address we can ignite the
0:52:53.760,0:53:00.320
Sparks that bring about lasting change and this
carries us one step closer to transforming the
0:53:00.320,0:53:06.000
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