Foreign.

Hello, welcome back to the Promoted podcast.

I'm your host, Felicity Fury, CEO and co founder of We Aspire.

And I'm joined by the incredible Renee.

I was gonna say Renee Wootton.

Renee Tomlin, superstar at Lanzajet Aerospace, engineer, pilot and speaker.

How you, Renee?

Great to have you back.

I am fantastic.

Thank you.

Calling in from Larrakia Country.

I'm at home.

I just went for a walk with Taco and Alex on the beach.

Beautiful start to the day.

How are you doing today?

So good.

So ready for this weekend and yes, I'm on Gubbi Guppy country and I was just sharing with Renee before we jumped on how actually been embracing a lot of indigenous culture in our house.

Our kids have been seeing a lot of indigenous dances and we actually had a lot of fun this week.

They wanted to put masking tape on their arms and be waka waka dancers from Shir Nurburgr, which we saw a few weeks ago dancing.

So it's really cool to embrace that.

And we actually have this really gorgeous indigenous story that my son Winston got for his fifth birthday around dancing.

So, yeah, really loving, learning a lot about indigenous culture and embracing that in our house.

Now that's a topic.

Another day we're going to be talking about culture in one of our upcoming episodes, but today we're talking all about the power of your voice, no matter who you are, where you are in your career.

Renee, what does this topic mean to you and why is it important that we're talking about this?

Yeah, so for me, this was a really important revelation, I suppose I had later in my career where I turned around one day and realized that people's perception or perspective of me was that I was a young leader of the aerospace field.

And I didn't really understand why because I just felt like little me.

Crane.

I had a lot of work to do to realize that you kind of grow a bit of experience in industry.

Your voice is as equally powerful as the most senior person in the room in different ways.

So if we think about sitting around a table and building ideas around how to innovate for our future, how to think about a problem and breaking it down, or someone's cultural perspective based on everybody's unique and lived expect perspective and experience.

So I think when I was younger, I didn't feel confident enough to speak up.

I didn't feel like I had enough lived experience to be able to share.

And I didn't really think my opinions mattered.

And as I've gotten older, throughout my leadership journey and become more wise and recognize the importance of young voices in the room.

I realize that it's my job and my role to make sure that those young voices feel empowered enough to have a voice at the table.

Now, young people can be overlooked at some points throughout a leadership journey and I think this is something culturally for me that's even become more and more prevalent as I've walked through community, worked with community and just held space with different cultural groups.

Is young people in first nations culture, for instance, hold as much weight at times as everybody else's in the room.

So how do we build this recognition and confidence that your voice matters and you should absolutely share it when asked upon or when given the opportunity and to hopefully skip this level of I guess, naivety that I had younger in my career where I really, I didn't feel powerful enough to step into that, to lean into my voice and make sure that it was heard as well.

Felicity, does that resonate with you and have you experienced that realization as well?

Feel like I actually had quite a different experience growing up and it was actually more I feel at school I went to was it was an all girls school and they said girls can do anything.

So I felt like because of that those values in my school.

So shout out to all, hello school.

And I've met a lot of women who've gone there have had similar experiences.

I actually felt from a young age age like I could share my thoughts and they were valuable.

And actually reflecting recently on my childhood and my upbringing, I've noticed that I actually was someone who really stood up for stuff.

Like even when I was a really young kid, even things like my dad would say things like, oh, we've got to save money to buy shoelaces and school books.

And I'd go, well dad, stop smoking.

We'll have more money.

Which is like, you know, a 10 or 12 year old is pretty bold.

And so I think I actually have been someone maybe didn't articulate it in the way but was a bit of a like say, yeah, a bit out.

I don't know the right word.

Outspoken.

Yeah.

So yeah, it's been interesting.

I feel like a bit of that is in my personality and I'm sure that has robbed people the wrong way over the years.

And while I might not have stood up to everything in my workplace, I was probably quiet when, you know, or at university I did try to fit in a lot.

I do feel like I've always been an advocate for, for social justice or when things haven't been fair and it actually is interesting when I went into uni and into the workplace, when I did stand up for myself in situations, I did get shut down, particularly early on in my career, and I almost thought, like, oh, that's a bit weird.

Like, yeah, right.

It was like a.

It was a really strange experience.

Particularly I remember specifically when I was a project manager and I had a person, the communications team, who was easily in her 50s or 60s, and I needed to tell her what to do as part of the job and she did not like, like at all.

So I thought, oh, that's so interesting.

And it was kind of almost like a respect thing.

Like, I think a strong value that I've had along the way has been respecting people, no matter, like, their background, their status, where they're like, you know, where they're from and those.

And those elements.

So I do feel like early on I did stand up, mate, yet, like I said, not in the best way.

My father was probably thinking, what am I going to do with this kid who is like, back?

But I did also find myself on panels when I was in my mid-20s at big conferences.

And I remember one conference I was there and the chief information officer for a huge engineering consultancy firm was on the panel with me.

And I thought, wow, how am I getting put on a stage with these people who are in C suite roles at the pinnacle of their career?

And I think that was really powerful for me, was that a lot of young people came up to me and they said, oh, my gosh, it's so good to have a young person on the panel.

Like, you were talking about things that I wanted to hear, or there were people who are older coming to me saying, I really value your perspective.

So I totally agree.

I think it's.

It's like gender diversity.

We need the age diversity across generations in the workplace making key decisions.

And I think it's really important to include people in the room, but it's not always easy to do so.

Absolutely.

And it sounds like from your childhood experience that you had a lot of clarity and courage.

And I think that that's the beauty in young people is they kind of say exactly what they think without hesitation, thinking about hierarchy.

And I think that that's what actually gives them this ability to challenge, inspire and reimagine their world.

So good on you for having that voice and jumping on those panels early.

And I actually, if I reflect on my own journey, I've been given a microphone early in my career as well.

And I think the difference was that I didn't understand why I was given that microphone and I didn't really appreciate that people were listening and that I held influence early.

So I think when I share this with our listeners, it's really with.

Don't forget the power of your voice and embrace the power of your voice.

Because every voice does matter.

And the reason it matters is because everyone brings something different to the table.

Whether you understand what that difference is, whether you can evaluate that difference, or whether there's this perceived status or level of experience, all of those things don't necessarily matter.

There is a reason you're in the seat that you're in.

There's a reason somebody handed you the microphone.

And so what we want to really encourage you to do is embrace that.

Embrace your unique perspective and keep pushing the voice that you have, the perspectives and the opinions that you have.

Well, I think it's been like an up and down journey for me because I feel like I had this like, strong inner sense to speak my mind young.

And then I think it was like, I'm one of 17 cousins, so to have your voice heard, you had to be pretty loud in the room.

And you know, when we're on weekends or, you know, playing or whatever we're doing.

So I feel like I've gone through this journey where I, you know, naturally was speaking up, but then was really like, put back in my box.

There was quite.

There's a lot of bullying cultures in various aspects of my life.

Whether it's.

Yeah, with the cousins or whether it's been with my family or in the workplace or at university, there's been that kind of.

And whether it's just my own view of.

I'm feeling like I've been pushed aside, that was just my experience.

And, you know, that's my perspective on it.

I'm sure lots of people would have other perspectives on it, but I did feel like I was kind of getting.

Getting pushed down.

So I did.

I feel like.

I wouldn't say, like, maybe quiet in my voice isn't the right word, but I did.

I was really selective about what I said because there's a.

I think there's a difference between speaking up for the sake of speaking up and doing in a way, it's.

In a way that creates influence.

And that's a very different thing.

It's actually, you can't, like.

I think it's awesome to speak up, especially if there is discrimination.

There are things that are happening to you that are not just and not right.

But I've also learned that if I Continue to speak up, particularly in, in workplace cultures that were not supportive.

It was like, oh, is it, is it like the woman talking about the women issues again?

And it wasn't received well.

So I think what I did do along the way was really adapt how I communicated in those environments and probably why I've got a range of communication skills because I made so many mistakes and I didn't do it in the right way and it was detrimental.

So I think it's important for people understand speaking up is really powerful and we need to be sensitive to the environments that we're in if we actually want to have the impact we want to have with the, with our voice as well.

I couldn't agree more.

And that is such an important nuance to talk through in that you have to have a level of respect always when you have, when you are given that microphone, when you're given the opportunity to have a voice consideration and probably a bit of strategy and planning that goes into what you say.

Sometimes it's off the cuff.

And again, I think where you're in those opportunities or in those moments where someone does hand you the microphone unexpectedly, you know, I think they're probably looking for that very, you know, truth telling, kind of without fear, like, tell us what you really think moments.

But then let's say a speech, for instance.

This is, for example, Felicity and I have done quite a number of talks to corporations, to community, to hundreds of thousands of leaders.

I think, Felicity, between the two of us, over corporate Australia and internationally, and in those moments you have a really powerful voice and an opportunity to inspire.

And it's also a trust process.

If you go in there and you deliver exactly the message that they want you to deliver, but with your own unique perspective, then you kind of hit the nail on the head.

But if you go in there and you share your perspectives that weren't agreed on previously, or, you know, you deliver that without cultural context and the right language, it can be really detrimental.

So I think the point of this podcast today is to really step into those opportunities where people hand you that microphone, whether it's pre planned, whether it's spontaneous, and deliver that with true integrity, with values, alignment and consideration for people in the room.

You know, I think given the chaos as well of today and what's happening around the world, we're really seeing young people step into the power of their voice and it doesn't always land.

So there's certainly a level of respect that we always need to consider in those moments.

I like what you said around Embracing those opportunities when you're given the microphone.

Because there's been a lot of situations and in those moments you can't actually prepare.

You know, my brain just goes into like, okay, I've got to say the right thing.

I'm going to go do more research.

I've got to do this and I have to go, no.

I was given that microphone because they want to hear from me.

They want to hear what I think and they want to hear what I have to say and that I have been preparing for this, you could say, for my whole lifetime or my whole career or the last however many years.

And there is actually almost like no preparation you can do.

I remember being called up for an interview on the abc.

It was a public holiday.

I was living in Melbourne.

It was a cold day.

I think it was like an Easter weekend.

It was, yeah, definitely a public holiday.

And I was in my pajamas and hadn't washed my hair.

And they were like, please come in this afternoon to do an interview.

And I could have stressed, like, what am I going to say?

Like, what words am I going to, like, have?

And it was about engaging kids into engineering.

And I thought, you know what, I've actually been working on this for a decade, so.

Well, actually even longer because that was my experience growing up and etc.

So in that moment, I had to trust myself and back myself, myself that I had everything I needed to speak up.

So if you are on the spin, you know, been put on the spot and you have to deliver something and that lead, if it's from a leader or someone else, if they've asked you to do it, then they know that you have got the good.

So.

And it's important to keep in mind in terms of preparation, when you have been given the microphone and you're put on the spot to speak.

I think one thing that's really helped me in that situation is to think about what does the audience want when you're trying to influence someone, trying to get your voice heard.

So you could be speaking to a board, you could be speaking to a CEO, you could be speaking to your boss, your leader.

And recently I had this experience where I had a particular view on an outcome that I wanted and someone I was working with had a different view.

And so I actually went to my coach and I said, look, I don't know, like, I want to achieve this outcome, but I also really don't want to get this person offside because I really respect them.

And my coach said, you know, what do they want?

What's important to them.

I think that their primary goal is to protect this thing and that's what they're going after.

And that was a real aha moment for me because then I could really engage with how can I influence and help them achieve their goals while achieving my goals at the same time?

So my fallback is always think about the audience and what does the audience want?

So my question to you, Renee, was have you got any tips for people when they're wanting to have their voice heard?

How do you think about it and how do you go about it?

I think for me, in my context, relationships are everything.

Building personal relationships is really important.

So, for example, I'm going through a live moment in my workforce where I'm trying to influence an outcome.

And it's a company kind of policy, widespread policy that will have really positive implications for many people.

And I'm trying to figure out kind of the cultural nuance around that and how to do that respectfully.

And for me, I think I can't do that and I have to play the long term game around that because I don't know the leadership team well enough.

I'm also in a position where I'm working remote.

So geography is also a challenge for me because I can't have those mini moments in the kitchen where saying hi and just how are you going?

And genuinely checking in and caring for these people, regardless of their level.

Because I think that that speaks to these values of integrity and being there to build the community that you're within.

So for me, my long term play is always go and knock on someone's door, find time with them and just ask, how are they going?

What's on their plate?

Is there anything you can support with, anything you can learn from them in the moments that they're having in their leadership journey?

That's always my kind of play because I want to understand them and do it in a very genuine way.

From there, that's where you can start.

Then leaning into, here's where I'm at, here are the things that are on my plate and here's how you can support me with my things.

So we always talk about mentoring, right?

And mentoring is a two way door.

And so you have to set yourself up for success.

If I didn't know you from a bar of soap, Felicity, and I walked in and asked you to give me a job, you'd probably say no on the spot.

But if we work together for a year, we've built this relationship of care and trust and integrity.

And I say, hey, Felicity, I really want to get a job with you or one of your partner organizations.

If you can't give me a job, you're probably going to advocate for me.

So it's built on.

All business is built on trust and relationships, in my opinion.

So how do we build genuine relationships?

And sometimes it can feel a bit icky in that it's strategic sometimes, but it takes genuine effort and consistency and turning up.

So I would recommend find that person that you want to be heard by or that you want to learn from, take them out for lunch, take them out for a coffee.

If you can't afford to do that, ask them for 30 minutes of their time, put time in their calendar, reach out to them on LinkedIn.

You don't have to do these things in person these days or within your same company.

There are so many different avenues to connect with, with people, so just keep consistently turning up.

A great example for me is I went to the Australian Renewable Fuels Week event in Sydney.

It was a conference held with the entire renewable fuels industry in Australia.

I had chemical engineers walking up to me asking very technical questions about our technology that I had no idea about.

And I just said to them upfront, you know, again, maintaining those values of trust and integrity.

I actually have no idea what you're talking about.

Can you teach me what you're working on and can you teach me what you know about this particular topic?

That led into about an hour conversation which then led to me asking, can you mentor me and would you mind if I put in an hour a month to keep this conversation going so I can learn the level of detail that you hold?

And because we spent that hour together, I, you know, it's simple things like looking into someone's eyes, genuinely actively listening and asking them great questions that, that show that what they're sharing is really engaging and means something to you.

So yeah, that's probably my takeaway.

Felicity, what would you do?

Oh, I love that.

Yeah, you just reminded me actually of something that.

Just another thing that really helped me and is actually a real relief.

So a few weeks ago we're running a workshop at the Gold Coast.

I, I think I told you this, Renee.

I was in hospital with one of our kids till 11pm Then I got home and I had like adrenaline pumping till midnight.

I couldn't sleep and I had to be up at 3:45 in the morning train to the Gold coast for various logistical reasons with children etc from the sunshine to be there at 8:00am I got, you know, I do feel kind of, you know precarious about sharing that story because I don't advocate for having to do work after three and a bit hours sleep and all that kind of stuff.

So I feel like as a side note always juggling between well being and I had rested all that week.

So I was like in a good stretch for this, you know, day because I knew I was going to be facilitating all day and really wanted to preserve my energy.

So I'm certain not advocating for people working on three and a bit hours worth of sleep.

And anyway that's what I chose to do that day so.

And I also, I could have worked.

I actually another side note.

What?

I was going to work the entire train ride on the Gold coast for three hours.

I had an awards application to write and I was like I'm just not going to do that.

I'm just going to chill and listen to some music and just be present.

That's what I need to do to be there.

So side note, I think well being is really, really important so I just wanted to to flag that one.

So then I got there and Michael, my amazing co facilitator, husband, business partner was there and I like, you know me, I'm not a cry and I was in the front of the room about 30 minutes before we went on crying just being like I don't know if I can do this.

Like I, I just don't know.

And he said, do you know what the good news is?

He and he quoted this speaking coach, who's Coach?

Tony Robbins, all these amazing people.

His name's Harry Singer and he said Harry Singer said at this presentation we went to, it's not about you, it's about your audience and it's all about them.

So I think at the end of the day when you're wanting to share your voice that we have talked about the topic of the power of your voice and we're talking about you but actually at the end of the day it's all about everybody else and you are the least important person in the room and to make a genuine impact and genuinely influence you really have that have to have that mindset over there and in, in the, in the eyes of other people and I don't know, I'm sure people have lots of opinions or probably people don't ever think about me at all about like my post on social media or anything like that.

But I'm super self conscious of it and I'm really self conscious when I'm speaking as well.

But the thing that I keep in the back of my mind is I'm.

It's okay for me to look bad or put myself out there and be judged, because at the end of the day, it is, this might inspire somebody or make a difference with somebody else.

So that's actually why I do it.

Despite I think sometimes it might look like if it was me looking at, like looking at me from the outside world, like, oh, my gosh, this person just keeps talking about herself like, oh, she's, you know, humble bragging or whatever.

But actually, I don't do it for me.

I do it for other people.

And I do it even though it's scary.

So good news is it's not about you.

Even though we're talking about the power of your voice today, that there's anything I want to leave people with, it is that at the end of the.

Day, I, I just watched the Thunderbirds on Netflix last night.

It's the top air force selected, like, top six fighter pilot, jet pilots, crew that flies around America for two years straight doing air demonstration.

And these people have to train and train and train to the highest level.

They're the best pilots in the world, essentially with the training they go through.

And something that resonated heavily with me during that entire thing was that the reason that those teams operate at the level that they do is because they trust each other blindly and they put service above themselves.

So I think when we're thinking about the power of your voice, it should be in service and with respect.

And I think that you've summarized that so nicely, that we have an incredible role to play as young people, young leaders.

We should never underestimate that, that, that role and that power.

And we want you guys to lean into it and to make an impact and have a positive impact and try and bring people along, along with you along the way.

Felicity, thank you for another incredible conversation.

We hope our listeners that you've loved the session today.

We're so grateful to have you back to draw from your experience, and we can't wait to see you all in the next episode.

Thanks, Renee.

Awesome topic.

It had twists and turns that I wasn't expecting and I love our conversations.

They do that.

We'll see you in the next episode of the Promoted podcast.

The podcast which gets you promoted and has to be great when you get there.

It.