Welcome back.

SPC listeners.

We're coming today with a new Beyond the check write episode

that's gonna have you going places.

Stick around for episode 84 of the student pilot cast.

Just go.

Alright, everyone turns out being a full-time flight instructor and working

at a tech company as well doesn't leave a lot of time for editing podcasts.

But after a short hiatus, we're back with another Beyond the check write episode.

This one's probably been about 99% done for a while, so it was time to

finally kick this one out of the nest.

In this episode, Kent and I talk about some ideas about

going places in airplanes.

Probably one of the reasons many of us got into aviation in the first place.

So enjoy this episode, and as usual, let us know what ideas you

have about cross country flying.

Enjoy.

All right.

Welcome back everybody to another beyond the check ride.

glad you're with us, Kent.

Welcome back.

How you been?

I am great.

It's always a great day when you get to talk about flying.

Oh, I couldn't agree more.

And I think you've got a really cool topic today for us, beyond the check

ride about, you know, something that's near and dear to my heart going places.

So what's the topic for today?

The topic for today is using GA for travel.

and you know, I think it's near and dear to a lot of pilots hearts because I think

that a lot of people have this in mind when they become pilots, you know, they

think about how can I get around the country and the world to some extent.

Easier and, you know, have more freedom doing it, have a much

better experience doing it.

and so, I mean, I know that for me, it was all about higher, farther, faster

when I first started learning how to fly.

And that was because I wanted to go places.

How about you?

Yeah, for sure.

going places was always part of what I wanted to do.

of course, since then I've found fun in an airplane in a lot of different ways.

Some of the most fun I've had is in light sport airplanes that weren't really good.

Go places airplanes.

But yes, that was always part of the dream and part of the reason

to become a pilot and still is.

I agree,

Yeah.

and you know, right off the bat, you, you brought something up that I

definitely want to cover and that's what airplanes you can use to go places.

And the real answer is any of them with, with an asterisk.

I will, there are.

I think the most uncomfortable cross country flight I ever had

was, I flew from central Iowa to northern Arkansas in a Citabria and

it was an old Citabria with an old interior and it was not comfortable.

And, but I mean, it was a fun flight cause I was at, you know, 500 AGL

pretty much the whole time and, you know, scaring horses and whatnot.

So, it was definitely still a fun flight, but it was not the most comfortable

flight and that's not the airplane I would buy if I wanted to go places often.

yep, yep.

And we've, we've talked about this before my, you know, my son works for a company

here locally, that's got eight extras, that he helps kind of take care of.

That be a hard plane to go places into, lots of fuel stops and heart,

you know, no autopilot and hard to maintain, you know, altitude heading.

I mean, it's just, you

Yeah,

but

airplanes in general are not great for cross country because of course

they're designed to not be stable.

And why would you put an autopilot in one?

I mean, I know that's the thing people do because they They do

still like to go places and they also like to turn upside down.

So there are some, maybe more popular on something like the aerobatic Bonanza

or the Marchetti or something like that.

That's kind of a combination go places and fun airplane.

But, yeah, I, I remember years ago, I had a couple of friends, one of whom

had previously owned a Pitts and one of whom owned a Pitts at the time and

flew it across half the country to get to a fly in that we were all at.

And, the guy who had it.

And had just hopped out after flying, I don't know, like a thousand miles in the

thing asks the guy who used to have one.

He says, how do you fly a Pitts across the country?

And the other guy goes, are you effing nuts?

You don't.

Yeah, Exactly.

yes, that is an example of a plane.

That's not great, but I guess what we're, what we're really

getting at more is right.

I mean, but you mentioned the light sport and, Part of why this subject

came up for me, is I've recently talked to several different people

about flying GA cross country.

And one of them is a guy who owned a 172 and I think maybe

hadn't even thought about it.

And there's nothing wrong with flying a 172 cross country.

It's maybe not the best ship there is, but if it's what you got.

Yeah.

you don't have to have a speed demon to do it.

and so what if it takes you longer?

That's more hours in the log book.

It's

Yep.

Now, obviously there, there is a, there's a balance there, especially if you have

a spouse who's with you or something like that, they may not want to sit

in a little airplane for that long.

So, you know, if you're looking for what to buy, Yeah, buy something that

fits your missions as well as possible.

But if you already have an airplane, even if it's not one, that's super

conducive to cross country travel.

I mean, there are people who fly from the West coast into, Oshkosh every year in

airplanes that, uh, in fact, one of the people that I, I love watching on YouTube.

Xyla Foxlin, she has, I think a Luscombe, you know, and she's based

in LA and she flew it to Oshkosh this summer and posted a video about it.

And yeah, it took her four days to get there, but you know what?

She had a great time.

So, uh, and that's really what it's about.

Um, If you're really going to be, you know, if you're really gung ho to use GA

for travel, there are lots and lots of great airplanes for travel via GA, but

just because you don't have one doesn't mean that you shouldn't consider it.

and we were kind of talking earlier that my friend with a one 72, who I, I'm not

sure if he even thought about taking it.

when I kind of encouraged him to, it was because he was asking about renting

an airplane at his destination so that he could take family members flying.

And I went, you own a perfectly good airplane.

If you thought about taking that, you know, there were, there were

some other circumstances there to, led to him not taking his airplane.

And I, Given those, I would have agreed with that, but you know,

there's nothing that says you can't take a one Luscombe or a light sport

or whatever cross country as well.

So,

um, but yeah, if it's going to be your mission, definitely buy for it.

And the light sport I have the most time in had a great autopilot in it.

Yeah.

slow, but fine.

The biggest problem with the light sport is you just can't take much stuff

with you and that's people and things.

So, a lot of times when you're traveling, you want to take some stuff with you.

so yeah, you got to make the, make sure the airplane fits the

mission, but I I'm with you.

Anything can look anywhere.

Any airplane is a cross country airplane.

If you got the time.

Right.

Yep.

Yep.

I'm trying to think, I mean, I, I know that.

From Wisconsin, mostly I have flown an archer to Kentucky and Arkansas and you

know, I've flown the 182, fixed gear 182, literally all over the country,

East coast, West coast, Gulf coast.

I think I landed that thing in somewhere between 30 and 35 states.

So yeah, you don't need a speed demon to do this.

so, getting back to, why you do it.

Well, It's part of the freedom that we have as pilots to be

able to do that sort of thing.

and airplanes are with some exceptions, of course, like we said,

they're great traveling machines.

And, I do like to tell people that, flying is always an adventure.

It just might not be the adventure you had planned on.

That's right.

but I consider myself extremely lucky in life to have had so many

experiences in a small airplane, that I just wouldn't trade for the world.

And, so part of the whole point of doing this episode is to encourage

people to get out there and do it.

now as pilots, we sometimes like to justify ourselves, right?

And this is where, especially like I said, if you're going with a spouse

or something like that, that might change how you calculate things.

or if you're going with small children or, you know, there are asterisks all

over the place in this episode, but we're going to talk about some of those things

and how you can do them successfully and, have everybody have a good time.

so one of the primary things that people talk about is cost.

Okay.

and generally driving and flying the airlines are thought of as cheaper.

There's a reason that That is the thought process.

And that is that often they are cheaper.

but, you know, just a little bit ago we were talking about, a leg

that I flew in the Mooney from New Mexico to Wisconsin, and I actually

burned less fuel flying the airplane than I would have driving the car.

Yeah.

And you did that flight in less than five hours,

Yes.

Yes.

I. definitely burn less fuel than the car would have burned at 200 miles an hour.

Yes.

So, so first of all, I would encourage those of you who feel the

need to justify things via cost.

look at all the costs because GA does come out ahead sometimes.

And, especially if you're looking at kind of more of a mid range trip,

I would say, I guess the way I have put it once was anywhere from 150 miles

to two times whatever the cruise speed times your, cruise speed of your airplane

times the endurance of your bladder.

You know, where can you get in two legs.

you know, when you start having,

Hey Kent, I, I gotta say, I am just somehow not surprised that you have a

rule of thumb for, trip making like that.

I love it.

I love it.

well, that one I don't actually use myself.

I go, I go wherever, but you know, I, I know that some of those longer

trips are, are harder to justify, especially for family members.

The

so,

me less right now is if you said, I also have a pneumonic for a trip.

No, I'm just kidding.

but yeah, so the, the mid range trips are the ones where GA really shines.

you know, especially if you're going someplace that is not an airline hub.

Yeah, because, you know, cost is one thing, but there's a lot of

cost savings and flexibility too.

I think you're probably going to talk about that, but,

flexibility of time and place.

Thanks.

Uh, can bring with it a lot of cost savings, that you need

to take into account as well.

yeah.

you know, a big one is hotel rooms.

Since you mentioned flexibility, there are plenty of times where I

can fly a leg or maybe two home.

after a day of having fun somewhere.

And I saved myself a hotel room that night.

I would have had to fly out in the airlines the next day, or I would have

had to have one less day of fun or whatever I was doing at my destination.

So, you know, there's, there's plenty of times where, in fact, I

would say most times, Airline flying kind of takes up your whole day.

whereas I've had work trips where I worked the whole day and then fly home and you

know, we've had, pleasure vacations where we're able to get some last minute play in

and then hop in the airplane and get home and not need another hotel that night.

And so, definitely consider whether you're going to need another night or

two in a hotel and how much that's going to cost you if you fly on the airlines.

car, things.

Yeah.

And of course the airlines love to charge fees for bags and you know,

this and that and the other stuff.

And, and of course then there is also your, your time and

your enjoyment of the trip.

being able to get somewhere faster is really nice.

Not having to deal with the hassles of TSA.

And, one of the things that made me really start thinking about this hard.

very early on.

I think it was the same summer I got my private.

I went to my cousin's wedding and I was already in Minneapolis for other reasons.

Hopped on an airplane there, flew to Albuquerque.

and of course to get on the airplane, you know, you have to go through

all the regular airport stuff.

parking and security and check in and checking bags and all that.

And, you know, even though a lot of people don't travel with checked luggage anymore

because of the fees, well, okay, so you didn't check it, but now they make you

gate check it and then you still have to wait at the other end and all that.

So there's, there's time involved in all of those things.

And so, you know, you have to consider that time.

But then I got to the other end and, you know, Takes a while to get off the

airplane, and then I spent 45 minutes waiting for bags at Baggage Claim, spent

another 45 minutes in line at the rental car counter, drove an hour and a half to a

town that had a perfectly good GA airport, and I went, why did I just do this?

I could have gotten myself here just as fast in an Archer.

So.

Yeah.

That was kind of a, an eyeopening moment for me to, to have

that experience and go, okay.

You know, GA is really usable for travel, even if you don't have the,

the fanciest, fastest airplane.

So, definitely consider all that time and, you know, the, the difference

in experiences between those as well.

So if the actual numbers don't completely work out in your favor, consider that

it might be worth a couple hundred bucks to see some really cool sites and to not

have somebody groping you in the TSA line.

Not to mention getting some great experience as a pilot.

yes.

and you know, Cross country flights are the best learning flying that you can have

without an instructor aboard, I believe, and I really think that they're a great

way to increase your skills as a pilot, you know, to get out of the nest and

see new terrain and deal with different controllers and all that and, I mean, the

FAA has done a good job of designing the National Airspace System so that things

are familiar in any place you go, but there's still enough that's different

that it's, you know, you always learn something when you go on a long trip, but

you also just, you get to see new sites.

And man, I cannot even begin to describe some of the amazing sites that I've

been able to see from a small airplane.

Yeah.

So

awesome.

so as far as the cost for flying GA, you know, fuel is the big one.

you do need to look at fees.

you know, if you fly into Orlando international, which I have, you're

going to pay some fees there.

so be sure you call ahead to the FBO and at least, you know, find out what

those fees are and what you're in for.

but there are, you know, if, if you're an accountant, you might think, well,

I need to amortize this and divide that across the hours and blah, blah, blah.

and all of that,

Here's, here's how I look at it when I'm deciding whether or not.

I should financially be able to justify going somewhere in my airplane.

I do not divide the entire cost by the number of hours in the year.

If you do that, you'll never fly the airplane.

And if you don't fly the airplane, why do you have the airplane?

The way I look at it is.

The first hour I fly every year costs me somewhere between 12 and 28, 000.

I don't want to get any more accurate than that.

And I'm sure that, you know, everyone's costs are going to vary, you know, East

coast hangers are really expensive, for example, and so, but anyway, the first

hour you fly every year is horrendously expensive because, you know, just

the fact that you have an airplane, you're going to be paying for a hanger.

You're going to be paying insurance.

You're going to be paying for an annual inspection, et cetera, et cetera.

But if you look at it this way and say, okay, Okay.

My first hour costs me 20 grand, all the other ones cost me, you know, 60, right.

cause really gas and, you know, if you decide that you want to keep an

engine reserve fund, you know, you might want to consider that as well.

But to me, the cost of travel is strictly the variable costs, the

incremental costs of flying the airplane.

Because, you know, just the decision you made to own an airplane, is what cost you

that first 20 grand or whatever it is.

the more you fly it, the cheaper it is.

and that's absolutely true.

Airplanes love to fly.

They get cheaper to maintain the more hours you put on them.

And so by looking at it that way and being able to justify trips means that, you

know, my average per hour price goes down just because I'm using the airplane more.

So,

Interesting.

I should have mentioned at the top here.

just where I'm coming from.

Now.

It's been 21 years since I got my private and I have used single engine piston

airplanes to travel to around 40 states.

I'll have to actually count them sometime and see if I've hit 40 yet.

I know it's at least 35.

like I said, East coast, West coast and Gulf coast being

based here in the Midwest.

and I have been to the Bahamas, so I have done lots of travel by GA. I know I have

at least 2400 hours across country time.

So, it's, it's a thing I love to do.

And I, I think everybody should give it a shot.

I couldn't agree more.

So, now we talked about, beyond the check ride and how this is

a thing that I think a very high percentage of pilots want to do.

And of course the, the next thing is always, well, I have

to get my instrument rating.

I can't do that until I get my instrument rating.

And yes, I have my instrument rating and I've had it most of that time,

but you do not have to have an instrument rating to fly cross country.

you do need to have more weather flexibility.

If you don't have your instrument rating, you know, there

will be times where you get.

stuck at some little podunk place for, you know, days potentially.

that sort of thing doesn't tend to happen when you have an instrument rating,

but that's also kind of a horror story.

Yeah, that's true.

Um,

the one you expected.

yes, I, I. I know some guys who have a great story about driving

hundreds of miles home in a U Haul because it was the only thing they

were available to rent in whatever little podunk town they ended up in.

so yeah, you, you might have a, an adventure, but you'll definitely

get a good story out of it.

but even though I, I w I was going to say, this is kind of a,

a horror story that gets repeated throughout this industry that keeps

people from using their airplanes.

You know, I mentioned flying to Kentucky in an archer.

I did that that first fall that I had my private.

so no instrument rating.

I flew the 182 to Texas without an instrument rating.

I went on a gigantic 5800 nautical mile adventure over the course of

three weeks, put 63 hours on that 182.

I had the instrument rating for that, but since I was out west, like the whole point

of it was to, you know, See the sites.

And so I was IFR for about.

to get my instrument.

After

I mean, it took me, I think it took me three years.

Well,

were three years that I got some good cross country flight in.

Well, thank you, but I don't think so.

Um, But yeah, I mean, in those three years, like I said, I've done, I did

some really good long cross countries, without an instrument rating.

And I did that huge West coast adventure, like I said, with an

instrument rating, but I was IFR for maybe 20 minutes of that entire trip.

and it was certainly, you know, the IFR, if I had waited maybe

two hours, it would have been.

The weather would have been through.

So,

All right.

I'm going to, I'm going to take a slight, tangent here

okay.

to ask you, what's hopefully a quick question.

If you are traveling somewhere.

And the weather's okay, you file IFR, or do you fly VFR?

Wow.

That is a big old, it depends.

I mean, that's the answer to every question in aviation.

It depends.

Good point.

There are so many variables involved and it really does.

Yeah, there's, I've done plenty of both.

you know, especially out west.

I love being VFR.

and it's conducive to VFR, when you're in the mountains

because the air is pretty dry.

And, you know, there's rarely a whole lot of clouds.

And when there are clouds, you might not want to be flying IFR either.

Right,

You you, have a lot more limited options when you're,

when you're out that way, IFR.

And of course, if you make a mistake, the consequences can be a lot more severe.

well, I do want to talk about the flip side and that is, when I would go

IFR, even if the weather is, is fine.

And usually that's for operational reasons like, you know, if you're going

somewhere in the Washington DC area, I feel like it's a lot easier to fly there.

IFR, things are generally the same.

I believe you still have to take the, the SIFRA familiarization course and

learn about all the ways that they're going to shoot you down and all the

ways that they're going to warn you that they're going to shoot you down

if you go in the wrong place out there.

But, and of course what the procedures are so that they don't don't shoot you down,

but really, the, the key there is that the easiest thing to do if you're not familiar

with those procedures and, you know, because you're based far away is just

file IFR and, you know, make sure you stay IFR, all the way to the ground and you

pick up IFR before you get off the ground.

And then pretty much nothing's different.

so that sort of situation is one example.

The other one is like if you're flying into a primary class Bravo airport, or any

other sort of really, really busy airport.

it's just a lot easier because they know you're coming, they

know how to deal with you.

You know, one of my flight instructors had an incident where he was trying to

fly VFR into Chicago O'Hare because the, he was taking some charter pilots to pick

up an airplane that had been left there and the controllers at O'Hare at the time

literally had no idea how to work him.

You know, because O'Hare, you know, they're, they've gotten so much better,

but they used to be so, I hate to say anti GA, but they really were

focused.

right.

All, all one 21 all the time.

Right.

And so he ended up circling outside the Bravo.

And I think he had to call on six different frequencies before someone

finally got on the phone and called the controller that he needed to call.

Let's tell them this, you know, this is how you work a VFR aircraft because, you

know, they just weren't used to it at all.

so yeah, it goes a lot smoother when you're tangling with, you

know, a whole bunch of jets.

If you just operate the way they do, you know.

Learn how to fly a fast approach, file IFR, and then just go on in.

and I generally don't go places like that on purpose.

Right.

I tend to avoid Bravo's because they're expensive and you know, there's a

lot of traffic to deal with and,

takes a

and

one of the time advantages that we have.

with GA is being able to land closer to our actual destination.

so yeah, it's, it's rare that I, I fly GA and do a primary Bravo, but

you know, I've flown into Baltimore, Washington international several times.

I've flown into Orlando international, New Orleans, and a few others.

I'd have to sit down and.

figure out the whole list.

But, yeah, that's, that's a situation where I would probably file IFR.

So I think we, we pretty well beat that question to death.

Yeah.

so I, you know, one of the notes that I put in here for the show on IFR vs.

VFR was just, do you have to be IFR?

No, go ahead.

Fly those long cross countries.

VFR.

just have that extra flexibility so that you can make good decisions.

is it helpful to have an instrument rating?

Absolutely.

you know, there's plenty of times where, you know, there's a overcast layer at a

thousand, 1500 feet, something like that.

and it's only 500 or a thousand feet thick, and it's going to keep VFR

pilots sitting on the ground for, like I said, potentially a couple of days.

whereas if you're an IFR pilot, you just.

Blast up through it and you're on your way.

so I would say if traveling is going to be a goal, then the instrument rating

should be a goal, but not a requirement.

And I do have some friends who have flown all over the country for years and years

and never got their instrument ratings.

So, definitely don't let the lack of an instrument rating be something

that stops you from trying it.

one little,

Oh boy, here we go again.

I have another rule of thumb.

that's related to all this.

basically it's, it's the 1, 110 rule.

and that is that if you're going on a thousand mile trip and you

have to go 100 miles off course in the middle, it only actually adds

about 10 miles to the trip distance.

something that blows people's minds, huh?

yeah,

yeah.

And, it's just a, if nothing else, it's a reminder to keep flexibility in

mind, you don't have to go direct from.

Milwaukee, Wisconsin to Houston, you know,

you can go well off course in the middle and really not affect the length

of the trip significantly at all.

And so, you know, you have a luxury on the longer trips of being able to say,

I don't really like that weather there.

So I'm going to go over that way and go around it.

And hey, as a bonus, if that's a trip you've done before,

now you get to see new stuff.

Yeah.

It also gives you flexibility to find cheaper fuel

for

Absolutely.

Yeah.

So, that kind of leads us into planning and how we do that.

specifically, I would say the process I follow is to, you know, look at my

departure and destination airports.

You know, my departure is where I'm based.

My destination is, almost always going to be the closest paved runway

to the actual spot I'm trying to go.

I don't try to avoid grass runways.

I just don't find a whole lot of them in the places that I'm actually trying to go.

You know, they tend to be more rural.

Yeah.

Yeah.

It's just the, you know, if you think about where they are in

relation to population centers, which are, you know, the, the more.

population a place has, the more likely you're going to be to go there.

not that I'm going to New York City on every trip or anything like that, but,

you know, if I'm going to visit friends or relatives, unless they're living on

a farm in the middle of nowhere, you know, they're living near other people.

And so it's

even then

a paved runway close by.

Right.

You know, it's, it would be interesting to know how many counties

in the U. S. don't have that.

Have a paved runway anywhere.

most

as, as, I don't want to say unhealthy, but maybe as malnourished as G.

A. S. There are still lots and lots of airports in this country.

And, you know, I'm Very thankful for that.

so yeah, generally that's going to be, where I'm going is the, the nearest

paved runway, unless there's some reason to, to go somewhere else nearby, but

I'm always aiming to get as close as I can to my destination in between.

Boy, you have a million options.

And so the first thing I do usually is I, I start looking at, okay, how

many stops am I going to need or want?

and then I start working from there.

I also, I'm going to be looking at, is there any terrain I want to go around or

is there anything I want to see that might be a little ways off course, you know?

So, I guess before the stops, I probably need.

do those two things and kind of decide what I want my overall

course for the entire trip to be.

And then start looking at, okay, where am I going to fuel the plane?

Where am I going to fuel myself?

You know, I would say that often we will pack sandwiches and snacks and stuff like

that in the airplane when we go somewhere.

But if you're going on a longer trip where you're going to need more than one meal

along the way, you probably are going to want to, be able to stop someplace where

there's a convenient way to get some food, either on the airport or real close to it.

if I'm really going far away or if maybe, you know, we're working and

then leaving on the same day and we're leaving in the evening, I'm

going to stay overnight somewhere.

You know, I kind of like to figure out those overnight stops.

so, you know, I figure out that overall course.

and then the stops, and then I do it all over again.

So that was plan A. And I would say normally I want to have maybe three

plans, column A, B, and C. you might want to look at, okay, If I'm going

off course 100 miles in the middle this way or 100 miles in the middle that way

for weather, what would that look like?

is there a different way around some of that terrain that I might want

to try out or something different I might want to see along the way?

You know, look at some of those same things, but on a completely different

route that's, significantly different just so that you have some options if

the weather, one or two of those routes turns out to be bad when you depart.

We have to stop and see the world's largest rubber band ball.

We just have to.

Yeah.

after we're done recording this episode.

What's the weirdest thing I've seen?

I mean, I have seen, like I said, many cool things.

and I want to point out that even after your A, B and C to be as safe

as possible on a cross country trip, you have to be willing to throw all

your plans away and come up with a completely new one at the last minute.

While you're already flying sometimes.

Including turning around and 86 and the whole thing.

It's

Absolutely.

Yep.

There have to be those times where, you know, and, and this will happen in the

middle of the trip, filled up with fuel.

And I think the weather is going to be okay up ahead this way.

And while you take off and you kind of look around and just go,

Nope.

turn around, get on the ground, sit it out for a while, There are, you

know, lots of horror stories that people talk about, but honestly, I've,

I've never pretty sure I have never had to make an unplanned overnight.

you know, yeah, and, you know, lots of people have, but,

but it,

horror stories as there are.

Yeah,

it always is.

But as many horror stories is people will tell about how awful G. A. Is for travel.

I've actually found it to be highly reliable, not 100%.

Nothing is 100%.

And you know, you need to be okay with that.

You need to be okay with some schedule flexibility and all that sort of thing.

But it should definitely not stop you from doing anything.

Or at least planning to, so anyway, come up with three big overall plans, you know,

at least down to the leg level and then.

You know, kind of go from there, be willing to throw them

out the window if you need to

Yeah.

That,

as you get closer.

about, that flexibility you're talking about, I think is it.

You know, it's, it's a safety feature and, I, I think, you know,

we have to, we talk about, you know, get their itis and things.

We have to be willing to be flexible and throw out our plans all the

time if we want to stay safe.

Yeah.

And we'll get to that in a little bit when we talk about more of

the safety aspects of this, but, planning wise, I think having three.

three main routes is, is a good thing to do.

and then finally, once you figure out which of those routes you're going to fly,

then you're probably going to want to get in your EFB and split them into separate

legs and plan each leg individually with, you know, approach and departure

procedures and that sort of thing.

you know, get in a little more detail and plan out each leg

the way that you normally would.

It's kind of fun to do that anyway.

It is.

I mean, it's, it's a good exercise.

I, I really enjoy planning flights and I've probably planned at least 10

flights for every flight I've ever taken.

Sometimes it's, it's just fun to dream and you know, especially if you just blew

all your money on one trip and you can't take another one for a little bit, you

know, figure out what that next one is going to be and start a fantasy planning.

I've, I've planned at least 10 times more flights than I've ever taken, for sure.

Yeah.

And I've got flights saved in my, in for flight that I have never taken

and may never take, I've got them in there because I wanted to see what

it would be like to do that flight.

Yup.

I have a, I have a plan for an Atlantic crossing that has been sitting in

my foreflight for at least a decade.

That's a doozy.

It is.

Well, hopefully someday I'll be able to afford that.

That's, that's way beyond the check ride.

Yes.

Yes.

That's potentially beyond sanity, but

So let's talk a little bit about some of those safety things.

And like you mentioned, flexibility is, that is to me, the most

important way of staying safe.

If you are a person who absolutely has to adhere to plan A, don't travel by GA. Um,

Buy and airplane

ticket.

Yep.

and you know, there will be times where that's your, your plan B,

even if you are planning to fly yourself, you know, get there.

Right.

This is, is a big deal.

there's a reason that it has a name, you know?

And so, You know, what I generally like to do to avoid that is to plan to

leave early enough that if there's a place that I have to be at a specific

time, I just leave early enough in the airplane where, you know, let's say I go

to the airport, the airplane fails its mag check and I'm not flying anywhere.

I want to be able to just get in the car and drive.

If I have to, so sometimes that means, you know, you're

going to be leaving a day early

Yeah.

and what that means is that 99 percent of the time you get an extra

day of vacation at your destination, you know, but the 1 percent of the

time you're at least still safe.

So that's, that's a big thing.

It's just the schedule flexibility.

It gives you the time to fly around weather systems instead of through them.

you know, it's, it's just, to me, it's the most important aspect of

staying safe when you're trying to travel by GA is flexibility.

you know, the bonus again is.

you get to your destination early and you get home early.

if it happens to not work out that way, Oh, well, at least you're still safe.

You still got to where you were going.

but that Southwest, I can't remember what they call it, but not the cheapest ticket,

but the, you know, the, the more expensive Southwest tickets, that are refundable.

There you go.

And they let you board first and get the best seats.

And, but yeah, you can.

cancel them for a full refund.

Obviously, don't quote me on this.

Don't depend on it, but my experience is that you can cancel for a full

refund right up until departure time.

and so that.

point.

That's a safety feature right there.

Like have, have an alternate plan, uh, that doesn't cost

you money if you don't need it.

That's a, that's a great idea.

So in the process of being flexible, like we've both already alluded to,

you can have some great adventures.

Um, like I said, it's always an adventure, just not necessarily

the one you had planned on.

That's

I mean, there are times where you will plan to go somewhere that's neat and fun.

And there are times where you will just discover it completely by accident.

one of our favorite stops now is one that I discovered

completely by accident, on a trip.

To see my brother, in the Pacific Northwest.

I just decided I want to stop and buy some fuel landed at Granite Falls, Minnesota.

And you know, there's not a whole lot out there.

It's, it's nowhere close to the cities.

But I fly in and right behind me, there's this warbird that enters the pattern

and lands and pulls up to the hangar.

And, you know, I only landed there because they had cheap fuel, having no

idea what else might be at this airport.

And this warbird comes in behind me and taxis up and this hanger opens.

And I kind of look over there and, oh, you know, there's several

really, really nice hangers here.

And it's all a museum and it's called Fig and Fighters.

absolutely wonderful museum.

one thing that they do that I have not seen anywhere else is that they

actually paint the inside walls of the hangers so that you'll see, okay, here's

this airplane that's sitting on the floor of the hanger and there'll be a

painting of it up on the wall in battle.

and they even have like, there are paratroopers coming down and

there are some, some of them, actually they'll have like half of a

mannequin sticking out of the wall.

So it's a little bit more 3d.

Yeah, it's, it's really cool.

They, they did a great job.

But, one of the things that really caught my eye there was they have a, a Waco

CG for a glider, which is one of those troop transport gliders that was pulled

by a DC three and dropped behind enemy lines on, on the night before D day.

that's

there are not very many of those left because, you know, the Germans

knew they were coming and put up all kinds of obstacles to them.

And of course, glider flying at night is pretty dangerous to begin with.

and even the ones that were used during the day, you know, that, they had to

be able to find a good landing site.

And, I'm not sure they ever actually retrieved any of the ones that were used

operationally, because that's, I mean, obviously picking up a glider from a

field is, a challenge when it's that big.

I think they carried something like 20 or 25 troops on every one.

So, they're fairly sizable and that, that's the only one of those

gliders I've ever seen anywhere.

So that, yeah.

Kind of blew me away.

But the other thing that they have there is a control tower.

It's like a period control tower, and you can climb up the stairs to the top

and they have period radios with manuals and everything, in this control tower.

So you can go up there and check all that out and look out over the

airfield while you're at it and

And you found this just completely by accident.

completely by accident.

So, and now, yeah, every time we go to the West coast, we stop there on

the you know, get some fuel and check out the museum for a couple of hours.

And it just makes a great way to take a break for the family.

And, you know, kids quit complaining for a while after that.

Are we there yet?

I actually don't have that problem with the airplane most of the time, but it,

you know, it's a good break for everybody.

the other one I like to talk about is, and this was something

I. Couldn't plan for it all.

This was one of those throw out all the plans situations.

We were in, western Montana.

did I talk about this one on the podcast already with the puking son?

All

I'm not sure.

I don't think so.

right.

Well, so we were, On the way out to the West Coast and we're over the mountains

in Western Montana and it's bumpy, you know, it's kind of late afternoon.

I think we were aiming for Idaho Falls for that night.

So, you know, just kind of the late afternoon turbulence plus,

you know, probably some mechanical turbulence from the terrain as well.

And

just really bumpy.

And, my wife had downloaded some things to her phone for my son to watch as we were

flying along, just in case he got bored.

And so he's sitting there with this little screen in front of him,

bouncing all over the place and completely without warning, he just

hurls all over himself like, Oh, okay.

Time for a new plan.

So, because we were in the mountains, there weren't any airports

that were like right there, but like, 20 miles in front of us.

There was there was an airport and you know, landed there completely unplanned.

hadn't looked at any airport information before we got there or anything like that.

And so we land to get the kid in the car seat.

Cleaned up and luckily it all stayed in the car seat.

We didn't have anything to clean up in the airplane.

and while we're doing that, I, I see this guy walking around and getting

ready to go flying and in his airplane.

And, I, I don't know, he caught my eye for some reason.

It's kind of hard to explain.

my sister works for NASA, so I've been lucky enough to meet him.

Quite a few astronauts and this guy, he had, let's just say he was

wearing some stuff that I was pretty sure hadn't come from the gift shop.

Did he, did he possibly have the right stuff?

That was awful.

But yes,

could just,

resist.

was wearing something that had a NASA logo on it.

And I'm like, yeah, that doesn't look like gift shop merge to me.

That looks like actual, you know,

This is the official mission patch sweatshirt or something like that.

And I honestly can't even remember exactly what it was, but I kind of

went, eh, that's, that's not normal.

And so.

I just kind of said, Hey, are you an astronaut?

And he said, yeah.

So I'm like, oh, that's, that's cool.

And you know, my sister works for NASA and, because my sister does

work directly with the astronauts, they actually knew each other.

So,

wow.

Amazing.

yeah.

Nice little small world moment.

But, and you know, so we got to talk for a little while and then, you know,

he flew off, went his way and I went my way and, we're still friends on

Facebook and he's a, like most astronauts are super, super interesting guy.

And, so, you know, you, These are just some of the, right.

These are just some of the random experiences that you can have on a

long cross country trip when you end up throwing your plans out the window.

So, absolutely is always an adventure.

so don't be afraid to throw those plans out the window because

honestly, sometimes it seems like things are more fun that way.

I, I agree.

and all of that, you know, just knowing all that.

Is a big help to keeping that attitude about flexibility that keeps you safe.

so if you're new to this and you haven't been able to have that experience

yet, absolutely don't be afraid to be flexible, throw your plans out, you

know, and just, you know, be willing to experience what comes to you because I've

had so many cool adventures that way.

and I guess the, the other.

places.

Yes, and kind of the last thing on this, on this vein, safety on these

long trips is, you know, recognize in your planning, and this is part

of the reason for doing the detailed planning, recognize when things are

going to be a little bit on the edge.

you know, every pilot should know their own personal envelope and we're going to

talk about this in an upcoming episode to how to expand that personal envelope

a little bit, but you kind of have an idea when things are going to be on

the edge and, you should think about.

And visualize beforehand, what could go wrong?

What happens if I have more of a headwind and I'm not going to make that fuel stop

that I had planned on, you know, out West, there's not that many airports.

And so, you know, you might have to fly.

A long way to get to a different one.

and you'll have to obviously recognize that situation early.

And in the case of fuel, I actually had a situation on my,

my last trip to the Northwest.

I was in Minnesota, went to my first fuel stop.

Pump was busted.

Now, crap, go to the second fuel stop.

credit card machine was busted.

Oh my goodness.

you know, these things do happen.

you need to be prepared for it.

And so if you're planning to get all the way down to Dave VFR fuel reserves, don't.

So, you know, make sure you're not getting too close to those edges of the

envelope for either you or the aircraft.

The other thing is that I would say, try to make as many decisions early if they're

going to be tough decisions as you can.

great advice.

yeah, I think one of the things that happens pretty frequently with get it,

get their itis, you know, it's the worst kind of get their itis is get home itis.

There was actually a fatal accident here a number of years ago that was

a get home itis thing and it was a guy who was trying to get home on

Sunday night, you know, and get back to work the next morning or whatever.

So he had that pressure there.

and of course you always want to be home instead of in a hotel, right?

Well, he was running low on fuel.

Ran into one of those situations where for whatever reason he could not pump

fuel and he just flat out did not have enough to get to another airport.

he actually used, I don't know what kind of container he used, but

he had some sort of a container.

He sumped fuel out of the tanks of an airplane that was parked there.

Oh,

just left them a note and said, Hey, I took some of your fuel.

Give me a call here and I'll pay you for it.

but unfortunately that was not able to happen because he apparently

still didn't take enough thought.

He had enough, tried to get home, ran out of gas at night, you know,

Crash into some trees and died.

Don't be that guy.

think about, again, those things that are kind of on the edge, you

know, what's going to happen if I get to a half hour away from home.

And my fuel reserves are a little bit low.

Well, you know, every one of us, if we are honest with ourselves are going to want to

push ahead anyway, we also know that there are a million reports in the NTSB files

that we have looked at and gone, why did that guy make such an idiotic mistake as

to run out of fuel five minutes from home?

So think about that stuff in advance and make the decisions in advance as well.

The example I want to give here was actually

thick of it,

yes, because that's when you make the wrong decision.

That's right.

And so the, the story I'm going to tell you here was actually a commercial flight.

not, not airline, but one that I flew.

and it was one of these ones where it was kind of bordering on the, the range of

the airplane at the weight we were flying.

You know, we, we had the seats full, so we couldn't take full fuel.

And it was a situation where there was forecast to be an increasing headwind, The

further we went toward the destination.

so there's kind of strike two right there.

And then, of course, it was the big wigs from our biggest client.

You know, and so, you know, there's going to be that passenger pressure.

They want to get there without that fuel stop, if they can help it.

And so I went, okay, we are not going to make this decision

in the airplane because.

We know that our passengers are going to want us to push on.

We know that we're going to want to push on, I mean, how would it look if

you're flying some clients somewhere and you have to stop 20 miles away

from your destination to fuel up, they're not going to like that at all.

So

right.

Well, and that's the thing is you got to think of that stuff.

In advance, what is it going to feel like when I am in this situation that

I think could happen, because I'm a little closer to the edge of the

envelope that I would like to be.

and so the plan I came up with was, okay, here's an airport that's halfway there.

I know has decent facilities.

And, actually the airport was more like three quarters of the

way there, but halfway there was a way point on the flight plan.

I went, okay, when we hit this way point, we are going to evaluate the

situation and here is the minimum number of gallons I will accept.

on board at this time to not do the fuel stop.

If we don't have that number of gallons, Automatically

we're going to that fuel stop.

and then I made a second one where, okay, when we're a beam, that first

one, we're going to evaluate again, and we're going to need this many gallons

to continue, and this is where we're going to go if we don't have enough.

And so by making those plans in advance and making the situation a little bit more

black and white, And being able to take all the emotion out of it, because that

emotion doesn't exist yet when you made the decision makes it a piece of cake.

and then we flew the flight, got to that first way point, went, okay.

Looks good to me.

Do you agree?

Yes.

Okay.

We're going to continue to the next one, make that decision again.

And we were able to make the flight without a fuel stop, but we were

able to do it safely, because we had done that decision making in advance.

So try and think through some of those possible, scenarios that

you might run into and go through that decision making in advance.

And, and, you know, you'll be able to keep yourself a lot safer that way.

and I think if you do all of that, You're going to have a safe trip, you're

going to have a great trip, you're going to learn things, you're going to

get great use out of your airplane, and you're going to have a whole lot of fun,

I

experience, and you're going to want to do it again.

So,

Yep.

Over and over again.

Spend that time flying.

absolutely.

Well, thanks Kent.

Awesome things to be thinking about.

I know I learned a few things here so you guys out there listening and watching, we

love that you're here, reach out to us.

Let us know your stories, your thoughts.

You can reach us at the contact page on studentpilotcast.

com, or you can send an email to bill at studentpilotcast.

com.

Either way, it'll get to us.

we just want to hear about, you know, your travel stories and things that

you've learned, and the things you would add to the, the listing of things that,

that we've talked about here today.

So appreciate that.

And Kent, thanks again.

Great topic, great stuff.

and we'll catch you next time.

Sounds good, looking forward to it.

All right.

We'll see you.

Okay.

I hope you enjoyed taking things a little bit beyond the check ride.

Let us know your thoughts and as usual, you can reach us at the

website@studentpilotcast.com, on the contact page or via email at either

Bill orKent@studentpilotcast.com.

I can be found on X as well at Bill will.

That's Bravo, India, Lima, Lima, whiskey, India, Lima.

Thanks again for hanging out with us.

And keep in mind, there's always ways to expand our comfort zone in

aviation, and if it's just taking trips, that's one of the areas that you

want to expand your own experience in.

Just get out there and do it safely.

Of course.