Welcome to episode 132 of educate and rejuvenate

the podcast, creating and honoring boundaries with Barb

Flowers. Do you get sucked into checking emails or responding to

messages 247 or just feel like you can never

honor yourself and what your needs are when it comes to

other people? Today, I'm interviewing teacher burnout coach Barb

Flowers at all, and we're talking all about how to create boundaries

and how to actually stick with them, which is one of the big keys to

having boundaries. So let's get to it.

Welcome to educate and rejuvenate, the podcast to help you

revitalize your teaching, renew your spirit, and reignite your

passion for life. I'm your host, Kelsey Sorensen, a former

teacher, current homeschool mom, published author, and certified life

coach. Whether you are a teacher in a traditional classroom, homeschool

from your kitchen table, or anywhere in between, I am on a mission to help

you not only survive as an educator, but thrive. Get

ready to up level your skills with incredible insights from guest experts

and discover the missing piece, rejuvenating yourself. Are

you ready to both educate and rejuvenate? Let's

go.

I am so excited to have Barb on the show today. She is

a fellow certified life coach for educators. She's the host of the

teacher burnout podcast and also the principal's

handbook podcast because she has been a teacher. She's also now

an administrator and a certified life coach for educators

and administrators. So super cool, and we are so lucky to

have her as one of our speakers at Educate and Rejuvenate this year. She'll be

teaching a session called energize your teaching, preventing burnout

and staying inspired. Like, who needs that? We

all wanna prevent burnout. We all wanna stay ignited and excited about

what we do as teachers. So I'm so looking forward to that session. She's going

to offer valuable tips about preventing burnout and strategies to

reignite your passion for teaching, which is really part of what I love to do.

Like, even my subtitle for my book is to revitalize your teaching, rejuvenate

your spirit, and reignite your passion for life. So I feel like what she has

to share really aligns with our mission. So I'm so excited to have her with

us at Educate and Rejuvenate, but also here on the podcast today

with you. So when we decided to do this interview, I

had Barb fill out a form, schedule her interview, and she had a list of

topics there. And the one that just screamed out to me was boundaries because it's

a topic that has come up a lot in in our coaching instead of the

educate and rejuvenate club, but I have not yet done a full podcast episode about

it. I think it was mentioned during the self love challenge back in February, but

we haven't done a full episode on it yet. So I was like, yes. We

need to do this. We need to talk about boundaries. So I'm really excited for

today's conversation. I feel like you'll probably gain some great insights on

how you can create and honor boundaries in your own life. Now this episode is

probably geared a bit more towards those who teach in a traditional setting. If you're

a homeschool parent listening, guess what next episode is really geared

towards you. We'll be talking all about the lies we tell ourselves as homeschool moms.

So either today's episode or the next one will totally be for you. Granted, I

feel like either way, you could definitely gain some insight from both episodes. Like today,

we're going to talk about boundaries in the classroom setting, but also in life in

general. So, if you are feeling the need

to create and honor some boundaries in your life, no matter what, today's episode is

for you. Like I said, we're gonna talk about it in everyday life, so you'll

definitely get something out of it. K. Take that last bit off. Okay. So a

little bit about Barb before we just dive in that

she like I said, she has experience in education as an elementary

principal and teacher. She's married with 2 kids in in elementary and

2 step kids in high school and college. She has a PhD in k

twelve leadership, and she's a certified life coach. So she knows what

she's talking about. She loves supporting educators in improving their

well-being and improving their professional skills. And

so today, we're going to be talking all about boundaries together. So let's get to

that interview.

Okay. Welcome, Welcome, Barb, to educate and rejuvenate the podcast. I'm so

excited to have you today. Thank you so much for having me on the podcast.

I'm excited to be here. And I am so excited to have you on

talking about today's topic of boundaries because that's one that's actually come

up a lot, but I haven't even done an, like, an episode fully about it

yet. I mean, it's been mentioned, but we haven't done a full episode on boundaries.

And we're over a 100 episodes in. I'm like, how did this happen?

Here we are. I'm so excited that we get to do it together. So first,

Barb, how can you tell us? How would you define boundaries? Well, I

look at boundaries as they're like your standards. Right? That's

how you choose to live and where you set. I always think

of a fence when I think of a boundary. Right? So where you put a

fence up to when something's not okay or what your

limits are. So when I think of boundaries, I think you can set

boundaries around your time. You know, what are your limits on your time,

you can set boundaries with your coworkers as an educator,

you can set boundaries with administration and just

setting boundaries and putting limits that work for you and

what your capacity is as an educator, because we all have

different capacities that we that we function at, and so you have to know

what those limits are and where you need to put those boundaries. Absolutely.

And one thing that I found is sometimes people think, like, a boundary,

and I wanna see what your thoughts are on this. Like, they think a boundary

is like, oh, I'm gonna tell you you can't do that. But that isn't

exactly a boundary. Right? Right. Right. And so you

have to know what works for yourself, and you can't, your

boundaries are only things you can control. Like you can't

focus on what people say to you because that's

their boundaries and that's, you know, what they can control. You just

have to control how you react and what limits you set on

that. Exactly. So basic one might be like, and this isn't even in the classroom,

but maybe just in general, like, hey. If you yell at me, I will leave

the room, or I will hang up the phone, or I will go somewhere else.

You can't tell them you can't yell at me, but this is what I'll do

if you choose to do that. Correct. I think about myself. I set a

boundary. I'm currently an elementary principal, and so when I have an angry

parent and I find I'm getting nowhere, I set a boundary that this

conversation is over and we'll have to have it at a different time because I

won't let somebody scream at me and be rude to me. You know? So I

think I can't control what they're saying or how they're thinking about me, but I

can control to sit there and take that language toward me.

So setting a boundary that way, I think, is huge. Yes. So it's not like

you're like, okay. I'm not going to have this conversation right now. You know, we're

going to have to do it another time, but it's not like, oh, I can

control exactly your reaction or what you're thinking about me and what you're thinking

about this discussion. So, yes, that's Right. A perfect

way to think about it. How do you successfully honor a boundary? I feel like

sometimes we are like, oh, I have this boundary, but then if we don't

actually hold the boundary for example, you're a teacher and you tell a parent,

I'm not going to check email or respond to emails after 5 PM, but

then you still do it. Right? What like, what kind of message is that

sending? How do we successfully honor a boundary?

Well, the number one thing is you have to be consistent. Whatever you

say you're going to do, you have to be consistent with that. You have to

look at it like when we're, you know, with kids, we know

if we give any leeway, right? Kids know what the

boundaries are and they're gonna push that boundary with behaviors. And

it's the same thing with anything else that you do. If you're not consistent

and let's say you tell parents, I don't answer,

dojo messages or messages from a messaging service after 5

o'clock and you do it one time, you've already put that boundary

down. You've already said I don't stick to my boundaries. So

consistency is the number one thing you can do. And it's also important to

be clear about what those boundaries are. Yeah. As a principal, I send out a

letter for the teachers, but I have I could even share it

saying what the boundaries are with communication. You have to be really

clear with families that they know what that boundary is or

whoever you're setting a boundary with, and even being clear with yourself. Right? If

you're not clear with yourself that you're, that that's,

an area that you need to work on. I've had to work with teachers a

lot on checking, messages over the weekend because we'd

have, yeah, we'd have conversations that it would ruin their whole

weekend. And so it took those conversations and the

reflection to realize that a boundary needed to be set.

So once that boundary was realized that it needed to be set, then we

could focus on being clear with what the boundary is that needed

to happen and being consistent with making sure that we

showed up and we were constantly sticking to what we said with our

boundaries. Oh, those are both so important. Like, being clear about

it and then, yes, honoring. And I think there are things you could do to

make it easier to do that too. For example, maybe you turn off, like,

dojo notifications on the weekend, so you're not tempted to be

like, oh, I just got a message or whatever. You don't even see it. I

find that can help if you're like, I need a little bit of help for

myself honoring this boundary if you created those bad habits. I find things like

that can definitely help. Yeah. And it's hard to go back. Once you've already

broke a boundary, it's hard to reestablish that

boundary. So and that is another great thing about teaching is

that we get to start over every year. So if you know that there were

boundaries that you didn't have last school year, summer

is a great time to reflect on that, think about what boundaries need to be

set and put in place to help you be more successful and maybe

less stressed, less overwhelmed, and put those in place and be really clear

and, consistent with them starting new. And that is such a great way

to refresh. Right? Because you're gonna have new parents. You're gonna have new students. The

new year is like a new beginning, and that's a great time to be like,

okay. I'm going to get more clear with these boundaries. This is what I'm going

to do. So for example, what are some boundaries that teachers might need

to set? And I know you even talked about an email that you sent out

on behalf to the parents or whatever. What what are some examples of a

clear boundary that they could set? You could either describe what was in

that email or just some other ideas. Yeah. So definitely some clear

boundaries that we have to set as a school that I have to help teachers

with our with communication, that one communication

times are crucial. But another thing that happens a lot with

messaging and it being so easy to message the teachers is I see

that parents will message the teachers instead of calling the office and

notifying us. So teachers are then stuck dealing with things that are

really office issues. Oh, yeah. Yeah. So helping parents

and sometimes they just don't know, and so helping parents know

who to communicate with in the school, that's not the teacher. Like,

if their child complains, there's a recess issue, you don't necessarily need to

notify the teacher. You can call the

to take that off of them. But I just think as a teacher, the more

that we can communicate and be clear about what those boundaries are,

I also think boundaries with I I see all the

time cell phones too, and and this is where I think it can tricky,

like parents wanting teachers' cell phone numbers. So that's a

boundary. If you have a boundary about parents, like, requesting you as a friend on

social media, again, if that's a boundary you have, you wanna be really

clear that I don't request. I don't take friend requests from

parents and be consistent on that. So whatever

those boundaries are, consistency is key there, but I think

I would say communication for sure is the biggest boundary that we need to set.

And I think it's because we're in such an instant world right now where it's

like, oh, I could just message the teacher and hopefully she'll message me back right

now. Or even I know that parents will message

teachers thinking that their child's only child in the class, Like, how is their daughter

going? Right. You know? And I I have teachers who are

like, well, I have 25 kids. I can't do that. So it's like you've gotta

set that boundary. They had a great day. I'll let you know if anything goes

wrong, but I generally do not message parents every single day about their

child. You know, things like that as well. I think we just have to be

really clear because you have to look at it from their perspective too. They

sometimes they don't realize everything teachers do and they don't know. So we just have

to be clear about. Yes. Absolutely. I think just, yeah, being

clear with those boundaries and communication is a big one because, yeah,

we just we're used to instant gratification, right, with being able to

just order something on Amazon and it arrives the next day. That's what we're really

trained for. And even social media, they've studied that. Right? And when you're

scrolling, it's all about that instant gratification, that dopamine hit.

And so parents might be reaching out. They don't have bad intentions.

It really is just about holding those boundaries and being clear

and communicating. That's really the big thing.

What about I know because you've been you kind of

understand both the teacher side and the administrator side. What are

some boundaries that teachers might need to have with administrators? And what I've

heard from some of the members in our educate and rejuvenate club is,

like, they really wanna make their principals happy. Right? They really

want their administrator to like them, and they might say

yes to things that maybe they don't feel the capacity for. And it's not even

necessarily the administrator's fault or anything, but what are just some boundaries in

general that might be appropriate? Right? There are some things that

might not be appropriate. So what might be appropriate for boundaries between teachers

and administrators and what might not be? I always tell my teachers because we

have lots of committees in the school, and I have people who want to be

on every committee and then I have people who don't want to be on a

committee. And I talk to teachers and I might ask them to do

something. And some teachers are like, no, I can't do this. And some just say

yes. And I just kind of going back to what I've said,

you have to be really clear. I'm asking because I think that you would be

a good fit on the committee, but I don't know what you're thinking and what's

going on in your life as a teacher. And so I think

you just have to know that it's okay not to, like,

people, please. You know? And most administrators

that I know would not hold it against anybody if they said,

no, I can't join that committee due to things that you have going on. Everybody's

at a different stage in their life, and if that's pointed out, I

think that that's a really good way to set a boundary. I

always just say I'm not a mind reader. Just please be clear with me.

If you can't do it, I never want to put extra stress on you. I

need you to be open and transparent and I'll try to be the same with

you. But I think just communicating and having those conversations,

but it definitely it's boundaries with committees, can be a hard

thing. If, if you're staying late or coming in

early, having boundaries about that, I think that's okay to communicate

that. I don't think there's anything wrong with communicating like, hey, I need

to leave here at 4 o'clock every day because of whatever, or I

just need to leave every day at 4 o'clock. There's not a problem with that.

And I think you just if you have an issue with that, need to communicate

that. I also think, I'm just thinking of some possible things that

could be an issue, but, like, taking a sick day. Oh, yes. That's a big

one. And one I've helped a lot of teachers with. Right. And I

know I, as a in all of my roles, I have felt guilty

every time I take a sick day. And it's like, no, you have to have

those boundaries. If you don't feel good, like, you're an adult. You get

to decide that. And I say that because my friend and I would call, like,

I feel like this, and we're both teachers. You know? Is that enough to take

a sick day? So guilty about it,

but it's like, we're adults. We know if we don't feel good. We know if

we need to be home. We know if we have to be home with our

kids, and we need to not feel guilty. We have the sick day, put

it in. That's our boundary. It is what it is. We don't need to be

questioned about it. And I know every contract's different with teachers and

things like that, but I do think that's a boundary there too, is

that you have yourself and your family to take care of. So I think that's

a boundary you always need to communicate and be clear about. Absolutely. And I can

and I have done full episodes on sick days and everything. I don't know if

you know, but our whole the way my brand even started and grew was we

did our ready to go sub plans and our sub binders. So that's, like, a

big thing we've helped teachers with, and there's a lot of mindset with that. There's

a lot of, oh, I can't take a day off because there's a sub shortage.

Even though I, like, earned these sick days or whatever, I just can't because that

would inconvenience people. And I think, again, that's really

good to want to think about your team and maybe be like, okay. Maybe this

time I won't take a sick day, but this time I will because I do

need to take care of myself. And then I know that if a teammate, they

need to take a day off, I will help with their class if needed, even

if the class has to split. I know that's been happening in some areas, but

if that needs to happen for someone to be able to take care of themselves

and take a day off, then you can help each other out with that. Yeah.

And I'm like, nobody wants you here. Exactly. It could make the problem worse if

it then suddenly goes around the whole school instead of only you. I'm sure you

can. I'm sure you've had experience with that. Right. And I'm like, you know, we

will figure it out. Kids will not be left unmonitored. Yes. Like it

it'll be sorted out one way or the other, and it won't be the end

of the world. It might not be, oh, this is the ideal day.

Like, there can be a normal day that's not the ideal day. So

we we know that in education. It's just some days are

different than others depending on, like, the kids and where they're at

and their nervous system regulation and everything going on.

Yeah. Yeah. So I I think just being clear about what you

need and having that self care. I talk to teachers about that a

lot. Don't feel guilty for taking care of yourself. And I

talked to principals about that. We all in education are

guilty of taking care of others first and a boundary

of self care who can argue with a boundary of self care. I just feel

like that's so crazy to even think about. We have to put

ourselves first. We have to put our families first and make them a

priority. I always tell my staff, like, we all love education.

We love kids, but at the end of the day, we work because we wanna

provide for our families. It so that's number 1.

Right? So Right. And one thing I actually did while I was writing my book

too on what you were saying about not wanting to put ourselves first, but I

look because people think, oh, if I put myself first that's selfish. But I

actually looked up the dictionary definition of selfish and it was saying that

being selfish is chiefly concerned with only yourself at

the expense of others. And that isn't putting

yourself first. That is trying to step on people because you wanna be above

them. But just like putting yourself first, I need to make sure my cup

is full before I take care of these students or work with my grade level

team or whatever. Like, I need to make sure that I'm taken care

of. And that isn't being selfish. That's just making sure that you're being taken care

of. The opposite of that selfish, like, being chiefly concerned

with only other people is or only yourself is only being concerned

about other people and not caring about yourself. And I think that sometimes the

direction teachers tend to go, they really are pouring it out in everyone else

and not enough to themselves. I always say boundaries is the number one thing to

help prevent burnout. Because, like you said, if you're pouring into

everybody and never yourself, there you might feel like you're okay,

but there will be a point where it'll just hit you and you'll be burnt

out because we can't do that forever. Our bodies are not made for

that. We need self care. We need to regulate ourselves. We need

to take care of our own mindset and just focus on being

the best version of us so we can help others. So that I think is

where those boundaries come in. Because I mean, this is just a personal boundary

for me, but starting my day every day with exercise, that is a

boundary I set with myself and my family. Like, I work out at home,

I get up every morning. Sorry. If you need something, figure it out. This is

my half hour to myself to exercise. And it's something

that is like a non negotiable for me because that's my

only time in my day that is truly focused on myself. So I think having

something like that is really important. Yes. I think it's so

important. And then, and I actually, I am with you. I love to do my

exercise in the morning and kind of having that time because I get up before

the rest of my family is out. So it's really that time of stillness and

to be with myself and to exercise and just

fill my cup so then I can fill up everybody else's

after I feel complete. You know? Yeah. Oh,

I love this. So what's just we're kinda wrapping up here, but

what boundaries again, I like to talk about on this show, not just

teaching, but our full lives. Right? Because we're teachers. Teaching is

one aspect of our lives, and then we've got everything else going on. What are

some other ways that boundaries can help us in our life outside of teaching

as well? I feel like it's a skill that when utilized in teaching, it helps

us use it in our lives and vice versa. Well, I know for me, I

can be a one thing I've worked on a lot is being a people pleaser.

And when I think of a people pleaser, it's really like a lack of boundaries.

Right? It's about everybody else, and I'm not setting boundaries. And so what I

see that happens in my personal life when I don't set boundaries is I

am like, yeah, I'll go to that event and that event and that event. And

so I'm running me and my kids around to 3 different events that we're

not even enjoying any of them because I'm like, I

can make it to everything. You know, I can do it all. And in

the process, I'm stressed out. I'm not enjoying myself.

I'm yelling at my kids. So I just think another way in your personal life

is really thinking about your time management and how you create those boundaries

around it. My husband is so great at being like, we have one

event planned. We're gonna leave it at once. There's one's planned. We don't

need to plan anything else. And I'm like, well, we could do something else too.

He's like, nope, one event. And it does, it helps so much with your

stress. And because when you're constantly feeling like you're

running from one thing to the next and you're just trying to get everything in,

I know for me, it just makes me feel like I'm doing nothing well. I'm

overwhelmed. I don't even know. I don't have a second

to breathe and really think about the things that I have going on. So I

think a thing that we need to make sure we're doing in our personal life

is that time management piece because I'm guilty about even before work,

I do 10,000,000 things in the morning because I'm like, if I can do it,

I go to work, it makes me feel better when I get home. But then

I have to stop and think, is it worth being stressed in the morning?

Yeah. And stress my entire family. So I think really putting those

boundaries into place on what can you actually get done in the

morning, what can you get done in a certain amount of time so that you

don't feel overwhelmed and stressed out and can just be more relaxed

and more present in your life. Yes. I think boundaries around time are crucial, and

this is one I honestly personally really relate to right now with working on my

book and the event and the rebrand and homeschooling still, so many things

that we're doing. And there was like a weekend where we just had so

much going on and then we got invited to another family dinner and I was

like, well, we could go. We don't have anything at that time, but I was

like, I just, I can't, I literally, my mental, emotional, I can't.

And you can always say no, even if you don't have a valid

reason, like something else you're at. A valid reason is just, you need

that time to decompress. And yes.

So I I love that you mentioned trying not to have too much in your

schedule because I do think that's where overwhelm can come in,

and we don't have that time to regulate ourselves and rejuvenate.

So love that. Okay. And then one last question about boundaries. I know that

a lot of people are like, okay, this all sounds great. I wanna do it,

but I'm worried this is going to ruin my relationships if I try to hold

a boundary. So what what do you have to say about that? I, when you

set a boundary, you just have to do in a way that's kind. If you're

like, you're breaking my boundaries, I can't do that. And you talk to people like

that, of course, they're gonna be like, okay, and get upset. But if you communicate

and have a conversation with people about what those boundaries

are, nobody's gonna get upset with you. I think it's in

our own mind that that's gonna happen. It's it's like I said, it's

that people pleasing mentality. I always think when I

set a boundary or when I say I can't go to something like you said,

if I don't have something else going on that I have to have an excuse.

And it's like, no, you don't. And so I think just

being more confident in yourself and your ability to know that it's

okay to have that boundary for yourself and

saying it in a confident clear way. Brene Brown says clearest points.

I think if you don't say it in a clear way, then what what I

know I do Me too. Is I would do the event anyways and

I would be mad the whole time anyway. And is that helping your relationship? Really?

Think about it. You're like, I don't wanna do this because I don't wanna ruin

my relationship, but is you feeling resentful, like, helping your relationship?

Right. And so I think if you can think of it from that lens

because I was volunteering, at church for a while, and I enjoyed

it, but at the same time I was kind of resentful. And I'm like, I

need to back away a little bit because I'm doing this from a place of

like resent and not from a place of I want to do this.

And nobody wants to be around you when you're in that space. And so

I think being clear about what those boundaries are and just

knowing that it's okay, you don't have to have excuse an excuse, be

confident in who you are and what decisions you make, and

people respect that. There's nobody that I've ever had a conversation with

that sets boundaries that I'm like, oh, man. They're so rude.

I look at that. We respect it. I'm like, wow, that's really

great. I have a friend who's an educator and she's great about she puts

her phone away and doesn't respond to group chats out from work and things

like that. And people know that's her boundary and they just know that about

her. She's not gonna respond to group chats after work and it's

not a big deal. So I think just being clear about who you are,

what those boundaries are and communicating them is gonna help people

just understand where you're coming from. Yes. And I think what you said about the

fear of what might happen is so much worse than usually what actually happens when

you do that. So just try it try it with a small boundary. You can

always work your way up. Try a boundary. You'll see it feels good, and then

just keep creating and honoring those boundaries as needed in your life.

I love how you said that because I started that with email. I actually took

email off my phone, but it started with, okay, I'm

not answering this email tonight. And then it started with me doing that more and

more, and then I'm like, I'm taking it off my phone, so I can't even

check it. So I think that's a great way to get started is just take

those micro steps. I love it. Well, this has been so good.

A great first episode about boundaries. I'm so excited we

finally did it and that you helped make it happen. So thank you so much,

Barb. And you're also part of our educate and rejuvenate event coming

this summer. Can you tell us a little bit more about what you're going to

be teaching there? Yeah. I'm really excited because I'm gonna be I will be talking

about reenergizing your teaching. So I'm gonna just talk about

how you bring that passion back to teaching. If you're feeling burnt out and

overwhelmed, how do you get that passion back? Because I always think

about that feeling you have as a student teacher when you're new to

teaching and everything's so exciting. And then we get into

the career and time goes on and it gets stressful and

we, we get these feelings that we're just burnt out and overwhelmed. And so I'm

gonna give you some strategies and tips on just how to reenergize your teaching

to love it again. I love that so much. I cannot wait for

this session to go out there so all the teachers at our

event can hear it and watch it, and, it's just

gonna be so good. And just it fits in perfectly with

the event as a whole, where we're really trying to help teachers learn how to

up level themselves in their career with teaching and

also personally. It's really personal development meets professional development.

So so excited for the event and that you're participating in it.

But the event isn't happening for another, like, probably about 6

weeks from when this episode goes live. So can you share

also, and again, they might wanna just connect with you outside of it. What else

do you have for our listeners in the meantime and where can they connect with

you? Yeah. So I have a podcast, the teacher burnout podcast. You can find

me on that podcast. You can also find me on Instagram at Barb Flowers

Coaching and find me there. And I'd love the opportunity to connect with

you and share what I've been doing with teacher burnout.

Awesome. Well, thank you so much for your time, Barb. This was such a

great interview. I loved chatting with you, and I love that everybody else

is going to get so much insight about how they can create and

honor boundaries in their teaching, in their lives. Well, thank you for having

me on, Kelsey.

If you enjoyed this episode, please hit subscribe so you don't miss the

next one. And if you're hungry for more, be sure to check out the book

that I wrote. It's called Educate and Rejuvenate, a 3 step guide to

revitalize your teaching, renew your spirit, and reignite your

passion for life. It is scheduled to be released in the summer of

2024. This book takes all the life coaching skills we talk about here on the

podcast and puts them together in one easy to understand guide.

Plus, when you pre order, you'll receive a PDF workbook and additional

resources to deepen your understanding and application of the concepts we've

covered on the book and on this podcast. You won't find these resources

anywhere else. Visit the link in the show notes to join the wait list and

be the 1st to know when the book becomes available for pre order. Let's

continue this journey of growth and rejuvenation together. Until next

time.