PJ Ellis (00:00)

All right, today's guest, let's get straight into this, is Joel Blake, a lovely, lovely gentleman, solicitor at Wilkes, Future Faces ambassador, dare I say, and Birmingham, or greater Birmingham, Young Professional of the Year award winner, Welcome to the pod, Joel.

Joel Blake (00:15)

Afternoon PJ, afternoon Andy, great to be here.

Andy (00:18)

Alright mate, likewise.

PJ Ellis (00:19)

Love that. Right, let's get straight into it. Who is, what is Joel Blake? Over to you, sir.

Joel Blake (00:24)

It depends what day you ask me PJ, on a weekday it's Joel Blake, the private client solicitor, on a weekend it's Joel Blake, the football fan. But for today, I'm Joel Blake and I'm a private client solicitor here at Wilkes. But beyond the nine to five and the day job, I'm an ambassador for young people in the Greater Birmingham region.

PJ Ellis (00:45)

Yeah, and I see that like day in day out. I've known you both close up and afar for years now. You've always been champion in this city, our community, the next generation. More importantly though, football fan, I know who you support. Tell the world.

Joel Blake (01:00)

From our sins, best promise you'll be.

PJ Ellis (01:02)

There he is, mate. Andy, do you want to get it off your chest to use support? what happened when a Blue Nose and Evertonian and a West Brom fan come together? Podcast episode. It tears, yeah, it tears,

Andy (01:06)

I'm Abitonian, you know.

Joel Blake (01:07)

No, it would be like that, the Grand Old Club.

Andy (01:09)

Yeah.

Tears.

Joel Blake (01:17)

Thank

PJ Ellis (01:19)

Tell us a little bit about your upbringing then Joel. Obviously you're a lawyer, private client, we'll come into that. How did you get into that? us a little bit of a, know, give us a snippet of your experience today.

Joel Blake (01:31)

Yeah, I'm not one of those people who wants to be a lawyer from age five. I kind of actually fell into the legal career as it happened. I grew up in Dudley to parents of Jamaican descent. My dad came over here when he was a teenager, so he is very Jamaican. He still has the accent despite being in the country in the 50 years.

PJ Ellis (01:51)

wow, cool.

Joel Blake (01:52)

Yeah, you just didn't want to get rid of it. even I struggled to understand it at times. So what my parents instilled for me from a very young age was to work hard to kind of achieve what you want to be. So growing up in Dudley wasn't easy. not many people in Dudley went on to higher education or even finished school. So when I was young, wanted to be a professional, there was no one around that I could speak to and talk to about progressing in a career. So at times I did feel like I was on

on my own.

didn't know what question to ask, didn't know where to go. But I thought my parents had instilled me, me to work hard and nothing's out of reach. So if you've got a dream, you can achieve it. So from a young age, I always wanted to be, I would say someone, I didn't know professional because I was young. So I didn't know I wanted to be professional. I just wanted to be someone that my parents and my community would be proud of. So I did my best at school and did my best at A level. And it's like A level where I studied A.

of a law and I thought you know what this is not a bad area I'll give it a try so applied to university to study law I left it quite late because I was I thought I don't know what I want to do

put it off, by the time it came to apply I had to go through clearing. So I ended up getting to the University of Law through clearing and I thought, you know what, I'm here now, let's see. Even when I got to university I still didn't know I wanted to be a solicitor. I was like, okay, I enjoy studying law, I'm going to do it in university for something to do for three years. And then while I was there, I've got kind of like...

PJ Ellis (03:19)

Yeah.

Joel Blake (03:29)

an appetite for it's like, you know what, I do like the academic side and practical side of law. I'm going to see this through. And I thought, you know what, at that point, I wasn't confident at all. So was like, the barrister route isn't for me. I kind of mentioned myself speaking to a group of people, let alone a judge. was like, you know what, let's go down the solicitor route. So I started applying for training contracts. I was not successful for the first two years at university. So.

I got to the third year of my degree and I thought, you know what, it's looking bleak. I'm getting rejected left, right and centre. I'm getting rejected by national firms, high street firms. So it was very difficult. But then this is where I learned one of my first lessons, has kind of guided my career. It's about not who you know.

It's about who knows you. So I was, I did some volunteering for my local MP, just like giving out flyers and stuff. And then one day he asked me, oh, what do you want to do kind of career wise? I said, a solicitor, but I don't know a solicitor. He goes, I know plenty. Suddenly I had my foot in like three different firms as he worked experience.

Andy (04:38)

Fantastic. couple of thoughts for me popped into my head. So firstly, ⁓ Joel, what does the phrase work hard mean to you? What did it mean to your parents and what were they trying to instill into you by telling you that?

Joel Blake (04:52)

So there's a Jamaican saying what says, if you want good, your nose has to run, i.e. you have to put blood, and tears into your dream. So working hard at that time was making sure all my homework was done, making sure I was turning up for lessons and doing my best academically.

Andy (05:12)

So you, and then you talked about when you were growing up, kind of lacking role models. I don't want to put words in your mouth, actually around kind of that professional environment. So what was it like trying to be Joel Blake, trying to better himself, have that eye on the professional side of life, growing up in an environment that didn't necessarily support that or relate to that?

Joel Blake (05:16)

Thank you.

It was very difficult if, be told, Andy, like there was no one around what kind of shared my vision or shared my goal.

It was kind of even at school teachers like, look, your academics aren't that great. Not many people around here go on to careers. You're better off doing something else. So even the teachers around were telling me, no, you're not going to make it sister. It's very difficult. And they're telling me there's people with better academics than you from better schools than you who haven't got a training contract. So there's no way you're going to get one. And for me, I'm a very stubborn person. I like to prove people wrong. So when they were telling me you're never

going to make it I thought I have to now have had to get my mind for I've got no choice because if I listen to them and don't make it they've won

PJ Ellis (06:17)

And is that something that has been born out of your parents? they found it a challenge to come over from a different country and find their way within Britain? Is that something you saw firsthand that they had obstacles that they needed to face and overcome?

Joel Blake (06:34)

Yeah, 100%. So, my dad came over here when he was 15, I believe, in 1977.

PJ Ellis (06:40)

Yeah.

Joel Blake (06:40)

My mum was born here, so it's slightly different, but yes, our community always had to kind of work harder to get to a certain destination. It's kind of like, for example, you've got a route to a destination, we always have to take, I want to call it a seed route, just a slightly longer route. So their kind of struggles kind of shaped me. So my mum was a netball player in their youth as well, so she's very competitive. So we grew up in a house where everything was a competition.

So she brought that kind of winning mentality to me. So when people are saying to me, yeah Joel, it's good to have a dream, it's good to be ambitious, but you have to be realistic. You are never going to be a solicitor. You are never going to be a lawyer or accountant. Look at doing something else. And I just thought, you know what? In 10 years time, I'm going to come back and prove to you, you're wrong.

PJ Ellis (07:34)

Why were they saying that though? What was it based off?

Joel Blake (07:37)

Back then I thought it was because they didn't like me but in truth when I reflect now I think you know what they probably weren't being malicious they probably didn't think it was possible because deadly not many a lot of people are not below the poverty line but not far from it and education isn't at the forefront of people's minds people want to survive

Becoming a lawyer accountant is a nice pipe dream, but it doesn't pay the immediate bills and it doesn't help the immediate situation So again, they weren't acting in manies. They just probably thought they doing what's best for me They probably thought if he pursues this and fails It's got to be heartbreaking. He might not be resilient enough But at the end of the day, I did have like a family supporting my dream and without them I definitely wouldn't be where I am today

Andy (08:25)

So it's clear. I mean, we call this wit and grit for a reason. And it's clear you've got plenty of the wit and grit, Joel. You've kind of got to this point with that sort of backstory. But who along the way has grabbed your hand and lifted you up? How did you find? Because you talk about it's who knows you. So I'm assuming along the way you've had those helping hands.

Joel Blake (08:46)

Yeah.

Andy (08:47)

So talk to us a little bit about that because that's really important and sometimes it's a bit counterintuitive for people to expect to get known before they can get help.

Joel Blake (08:58)

Yeah, so, yeah, like I said, my parents and family and friends have great support.

but it was my local MP which actually put my foot in the legal door. back in college on a Wednesday afternoon, you could do either a sport or some volunteering. So I decided to volunteer in a local community hall and I met the MP there. So he said, you know what, on a Wednesday afternoon, you could come to my surgery and you could help with casework. You could help answer letters from constituents

them as to what need and I started helping him out dropping flyers around the area and then me and him had a conversation one of the evenings and he asked me what my ambitions were so I told him I want to be a lawyer or want to study law but I can't get any work experience. Then suddenly he's like you know what I know a few lawyers. He dropped a few emails suddenly I have my kind of two placements and without those placements

my training contract applications wouldn't have gone as far as they did. So it's kind of a bit of luck, but with me, I believe luck is about putting yourself in the right place at the right time.

Andy (10:05)

How many rejections do think you had over that period? you said the first two years at university.

Joel Blake (10:11)

I'll be honest with you, countless rejections. It became quite normal, it's kind of like, thank you for your application, but at this time we've received applications from so many people, and you know the rest of the jargon. So yeah, I probably couldn't even count. There were so many.

PJ Ellis (10:27)

And you come back to that sort of piece around proving people wrong. And I won't tell you the name that person that you're probably thinking about when you remember that sort of feeling, you know, I'm going to prove him or her wrong. Why though? Why was that, you know, why were you so committed at that point? I know that resilience is in you and that grit. can feel that and always sense that when I'm around you.

Joel Blake (10:35)

Yeah.

PJ Ellis (10:49)

But why were you so determined?

Joel Blake (10:51)

Yeah, there was a passion for law, but like I said, it was a passion to be someone that I could be, my parents, the community could be proud of, because I was looking around deadly and thinking, no one from around here really...

has kind of the backing to go and better themselves. We've got Lenny Henry and we've got Duncan Edwards who played football for United in the 50s. But apart from that, there hasn't been any trailblazers in the last 30 years. I thought, you know what, I want to put my town on the map. So I thought, there were times where I believed it. I was like, I'm probably not going to make it. I should give up. But that kind of family background and winning competitiveness was like, you know what, no, I want to keep going forward.

PJ Ellis (11:11)

Yeah.

Joel Blake (11:32)

Thank

PJ Ellis (11:33)

And

that statue in Dudley Market of Duncan Edwards is cool, man.

Yeah, I love it, mate. I love it. I love looking down that view actually onto the castle by where the statue is. Maybe there will be one of you one day. Has your mom and dad ever told you that they're proud of you?

Joel Blake (11:47)

Yeah, they have. Like at the moment it's hard because I digress, but my dad's not a football fan at all. So last week I went to the Leicester game and I think it was minus five. My dad sent me a message saying how he can't believe I went to Leicester to spend good money in the cold and said I've got bills to pay. I as a laugh, I put that message on Twitter. It's got 1.2 million interactions.

PJ Ellis (11:54)

Yeah.

I really

has it.

Joel Blake (12:15)

Like, kid you not, so I literally put it as a joke between friends. Suddenly, it's going mental. It's unfacebooked on about five different meme pages.

PJ Ellis (12:25)

wow, amazing, I'll check that out. definitely, I love that sort of stuff.

Joel Blake (12:28)

If you ask him this week, he won't be proud of me, but overall they're happy.

Andy (12:33)

So fast forward then to a career. And I think it's for six years at Wilkes, give or take.

Joel Blake (12:39)

Yes, for two years training, four years qualified.

Andy (12:43)

talk to us about what that journey's been like from start to where you are today.

Joel Blake (12:48)

The journey has been very difficult, if truth be told, because as a young professional, I probably have the same kind of fears as many young professionals. So when I started at Wilkes, I had never worked in an office before. I didn't even know anyone who worked in an office, so getting kind of to grips with the office etiquette was really hard, being from a working class background in Dudley. So I remember when I first started, someone asked me what my handicap was. And I said I'm fully abled. But he meant golf, so I said...

I didn't have a clue at all. it's kind of the small things I struggled with thinking, did our people got to understand how I speak with my broad black conjecture? I was like, Peaky Blind is quite a property now, but that's more for me. So it was stuff like that. it was hard to kind of.

be authentic but fit into a traditional profession. So at first it was hard kind of going from having school holidays and university holidays to literally not your work in until you book annual leave.

PJ Ellis (13:48)

What were you doing before then job wise? Did you ever like a part-time job or anything?

Joel Blake (13:53)

No, so growing up I didn't actually have a part-time job. I helped my cousin with a paper round here and there but apart from that no part-time job. So this is a different discussion. So basically I did want to get a part-time job but my parents wanted me to put 100 % into my studies. They understood how hard it was to get where I needed to go and they said to me

PJ Ellis (13:58)

Yeah. Wow. First job.

Yeah.

Joel Blake (14:15)

We would like to get a part-time job for yourself, but our goal is for you to become a solicitor. We will work extra hours just so you can put 100 % into your studies.

Andy (14:25)

And so we are six years into your journey at Wilkes and you're now working in a private client.

Joel Blake (14:32)

private client department.

Andy (14:34)

So having grown up in the environment you described and now working in the private client where I'm guessing there's a few pounds of tax flying around kind of here and there. How does that feel like? How does that feel like to be where you are today looking back on where you come from?

Joel Blake (14:50)

Now it kind of feels normal because I've been in this kind of profession for six years, so day to day it just feels like the norm. But when I reflect on the journey that's got me here, I do feel proud of where I've come from. And the thing is, before I used to see being working class from Dudley as a weakness, but I've found it's my greatest strength. So working private client, I deal with individuals every day from different walks of life and...

Being a private client assistant, you deal with the person to the backbone. So you're speaking to a person, not like a business owner, not a director. You're speaking to them person to person. So with experiences I've had meeting people I've had, it's easy for me to kind of share stories and kind of relate and build rapport with my clients. So what I thought was a weakness has become one of my strengths in this particular area.

Andy (15:42)

And what's

your take of the world of work now, Joel? There's a lot of noise out there in the real world. There's a lot of change coming in. It's a constant now. What do you see? What's the future like?

Joel Blake (15:54)

Well, if you believe some people, AI is going to take over all our jobs and we're all going to be jobless. But jokes aside, I think as a young professional and I actually mentor a lot of young professionals, a lot of them are worried and they're uncertain about the future. But I said...

You have youth on your side, be adaptable, change with the times. Don't be scared of change, embrace it. So when I kind of foresee change on the horizon, I see it as an opportunity.

It's daunting nevertheless, but change is always kind of an opportunity to do things differently. It's a time for you to kind of say, you know what, this is coming. I can suggest a way of doing things differently. Don't reinvent the wheel. You kind of move the times.

Andy (16:37)

So if someone was to say, it's all right for you to say, you've had it easy, you're six and a half years in, you've never had a problem in your career, and you were to go, actually, do know what? I've had these challenges over the last few years and this is how I've got over them. What would you say are the big challenges you faced professionally? And how have you dealt with those?

Joel Blake (17:00)

Yeah, so one of big challenges in this profession that I've had is I don't see anyone like me represented at the top of the profession. So that was something that when I first started I thought...

I've made it so far, but I'm not going to progress to the top because no one who looks like me, no one who sounds like me is at the top. was like, there's no chance. then again, I look back on the journey I've been so far, I've made it this far. There's actually not that much further to go. I've done the hard part to get to where I am. So when I speak to other young professionals, like, although there's no one who looks like you're at the top now, when you get to the top...

You are yourself. So you need, it's kind of like building foundations for the people to come after me. So it's like, can only control what's in my power. I can't control who's at the top now, but I can control who's at the top in five to 10 years time. So I have to keep myself accountable. And then if you think about it, 10 years time, if I went up, I'm about to say if I get to the top, when I get to the top, there'll be others who think, oh yeah, he looks like me. He's got a broad.

local accent, what's stuck in me getting there.

PJ Ellis (18:10)

Yeah, I love that. I I wrote that down earlier talking about bringing people into the room. You said that, you know, local MP helped you and a lot of our guests have previously said that how important that is, you know, to take other people into the room with you. know that that you say I'll say challenge, you say opportunity. I know that's the sort of guy that you are and you are going to go to the top. You know, you're seeing where you need to go and you're supporting people to follow you or to get there before you, whatever it might be.

Joel Blake (18:18)

Yeah.

PJ Ellis (18:36)

If there is a challenge at the moment you're facing to make sure that happens, what would you say? I'm not saying this about Wilkes specifically, but are there any, what does a healthy conversation look like within a workplace at the moment with a paralegal and a partner? If that makes sense, excuse the term, someone who's on their career, know, start their career, someone who's come to the end. What do those healthy conversations need to look like?

Joel Blake (18:44)

Yeah.

Yeah.

I think it has to be kind of constructive feedback. it's kind of, you have to...

When I am kind of dealing with juniors and paralegals and trainees, I give them feedback and tell them why to do a certain thing. It's not about rigid cooling and telling them they're wrong. I don't like using the word wrong or using red pen. It's kind of like, I'm not saying you're wrong, but this is how I would do it. And a good one, a good stop for kind of building or bridging relationships between generations is upwards mentoring. It's kind of like, you can give feedback to your superior.

So a lot of time when I speak to juniors, they feel kind of embarrassed or inadequate, thinking, I've got nothing to kind of contribute to the company. This person has been in the job for 20 years. They're not better at the job than me.

Yes, that's correct, they've been in the job longer than you, but the skills you have that they don't. So a lot of the time, some of the older members of staff need help setting up like equipment and so on, like a partner might need help installing something on his iPhone. It's trivial, but without you there, they wouldn't be able to function the same way. So there's a lot that the younger generation can contribute. So having open dialogue and building rapport with each other, that's the way you bridge generations because

We're

not enemies as generations and at night and day we're all human, we all live the same lives. It's just having open dialogue and kind of confidence just to be like, this person might have been in trouble longer than me but there's things I can contribute, can kind of aid the relationship.

PJ Ellis (20:36)

You mentioned a word I was literally going to lean into confidence. You you, you appear to be a confident person. Have you always been confident in this?

Joel Blake (20:45)

Not

at all, but when I was young I was very shy, I was very kind of.

Guarded so confidence has come through time. So a lot of things come for experience. So Being in a job I've been in for so long meeting the people I have I built confidence over time So you can't like the old saying never judge a book by its cover So on the face of it, my journey has been very traditional. I went to school Done GCSEs, did A levels, did a degree, did the LPC, got a training contract. On the face of it you'd say this guy had it easy. What would he know?

He's been in this job six years. that so LinkedIn a CV only tells a small part of the story The stats do lie because that would change. yeah easy, but you have to when you have open conversations Speak openly to people then you realize there's a story beyond the CV the story beyond LinkedIn

Andy (21:26)

Ha!

Apart

from working in a law firm Joel, how have you developed yourself? Who's helped you? What have you been on? What experiences have you had? How have you developed your rounded professional approach other than just being good at law?

Joel Blake (21:55)

So the professional approach is like for example, so being a lawyer obviously you have to have the prerequisites of academics, when I speak into students I'm saying

At the end of the day, you're applying, all of you have the same prerequisites, all of you have the same academics who do the job, but you need personality to set your part up because at end of the day, the black letter law is the black letter law, you're churning out, fine. It's having personality because a lot of the job is speaking to people on the phone, having conversations. So I know it's not professional, but growing up in Dudley, going to the football, that aided my

kind of conversational skills so I was going to football speaking to people my age older you're learning by osmosis you're learning things what happened 30 years ago or before your time then suddenly you've got a client and they speak about okay 1970 blah blah and suddenly you're like oh yeah that happened suddenly you're having a conversation with the clients because you know things from osmosis and like any solicitor can do the job for the client but they're going to

minded to come back to you because you bring something else to the table.

Andy (23:09)

Okay, let's dial it up a little bit. So there's lots of different people of lots of different ages who listen to this. And there's many different generations now in firms and in businesses. How do we, because I get a bit, I've got, Peej and I both got young lads, and you hear the younger generation of this, that and the other work shy, all that kind of stuff. How do we all not only get along better, but make our businesses more successful? What do we need to do?

definitely to collaborate across all age ranges.

Joel Blake (23:40)

I would say put people first, share stories, share ideas. Well, there's a lot of people of different ages and it's kind of getting to know each other. So we do a lot of activities with people. have kind of, within our team, have away days or days when we get to know each other better, not just on a work level, but on a personal level. Because suddenly when you're learning more about a person outside of work,

that's when you get to know the real person because a lot of time in businesses is just very face value, surface level. You need to go beyond surface level, get to know.

what makes this person tick, then suddenly you can build a better rapport. And when a team has rapport with each other and confidence, that builds trust. And if you trust the person you're working with, you're going to have the confidence to not be scared to share an idea. if you don't know the person beyond surface level, you don't know what you can say or do around a person. And suddenly it's kind of like, you know what, I'll keep it very minimal. And then suddenly the business isn't going to succeed because everyone

quite guarded but when you have these conversations build trust and build rapport suddenly it's all about trust.

Andy (24:52)

Yeah, so tell me if you will, something that would really surprise me or anyone else who knows you about how you've got to where you have today.

Joel Blake (25:02)

So if you can give me a phrase or question.

Andy (25:04)

Yeah, so what not many people know about you that's helped you to get to where you've got to today.

Joel Blake (25:11)

I would say what surprised me is I'm not as fierce as people might think. So most of my Spotify playlist is Adele, Whitney Houston and Shania Twain. So when people are walking past and they probably think I'm listening to somebody's gunna, it's literally just Shania Twain. I feel like a woman blasting.

PJ Ellis (25:32)

And there we go, that's the answer. the backdrop to your life is Shania Twain and a little bit of Celine Dion, dare I say. mate, and me too.

Joel Blake (25:39)

Celine Dion is my favourite artist. That's not what surprises

people. I am kind of like a kind, sensitive soul underneath it all.

PJ Ellis (25:47)

And where does that come from then? mean, you said you were shy as a kid. Is it something that you want to hold on to because it protects those characteristics? You know, we are all different people. As you said, Laura is very black and white. I have all the same degrees and exams and GCSEs as you. But what makes us very different is our personality, I suppose.

Joel Blake (26:05)

Yeah, definitely personal

because like I said, everyone has a prerequisite. Everyone's done the same exams. Everyone's done the same courses to get here. It's about the person you are and it's about being authentic as well because the trap I fell into when I first started in the career was I was pretending to be someone I wasn't.

And that's exhausting. If you pretend to be someone else all day, you're coming home tired and drained. But when you're authentic in yourself, the days fly because there's no hidden agenda. And authenticity is one the best dreams you can have.

Andy (26:37)

So how did you feel starting to do the networking, the in-person stuff, again, going out of your comfort zone? When did that start and how did that go?

Joel Blake (26:49)

I wasn't a fish to water networking at first. I found it really, really hard thinking I've got nothing to, I'm going to go into this room because when I first started, I thought networking was people standing around the room with a glass of wine in their hands talking about the financial times.

I was like, I've got nothing to add to these conversations. But over time, I was meeting people and we were talking about like common interests and suddenly I was thinking, networking isn't transactional. Networking isn't going and thinking, I need to get something from this person. It's not about collecting business cards. It's about having interesting and authentic conversations with like-minded people. So when you kind of...

Approach networking, transactional, what can I get? It's not going to work because it's going to come across like a salesman. But when you're authentic and you're having real conversations and building proper relationships, suddenly you don't know what dividends that will pay. So I approach it like I'm going there to be myself and have normal conversations and I'll see what happens.

PJ Ellis (27:59)

And are you finding that quite effective now? mean, we're in a world of AI where you can see a mile off that an email has been drafted by chat GPT, a LinkedIn message has been whatever it might be. Are you finding that from a growth perspective, whether it come to your professional side or just you as a person, that you're getting more out of pressing the flesh than not?

Joel Blake (28:21)

You're 100 % because now you can draft an email to someone and there's no real thought going into it. But now I prefer speaking to someone. I like to see the white of someone's eyes. Because body language tells you a lot as well. You build rapport better when you can see the person.

And today, where it's a digital age, it's hard. And especially for a younger generation, a lot of their university schooling was online due to COVID. So they weren't having these conversations. But now, I always say to the younger generation,

PJ Ellis (28:39)

sense.

Joel Blake (28:52)

Go out and meet someone, even if you're an introvert, you don't have to go networking in a big room with loads of people. If there's someone that you think you have common interest with, drop them a message, meet up for a coffee, meet up for a drink, and have a conversation one-to-one, because that's networking as well. Networking doesn't have to be just professional. There's people that I've met on the bus, on the train, that I've developed a relationship with, and it's paid dividends down the line. But networking isn't immediate. You're not going to get an immediate result.

or means it gain, it's playing the long game.

PJ Ellis (29:25)

Yeah, we

all know those people that network and ask you to marry them after three minutes, you know.

Joel Blake (29:30)

Exactly.

Andy (29:31)

And what do you think of the city and the region at the moment then? What's your take on where we're at in the Midlands and in Birmingham and what we want to be doing more of?

Joel Blake (29:41)

I'm very proud of the kind of strides that the city and wider regions made in the last 10 years. When I first started at university, at University of Law in the jury quarter, the tram only went to Snow Hill, 103 Cornwall wasn't built, Millennium Point wasn't built, even Grand Central hadn't been built at this point. So when you look back and compare Birmingham, 10 years ago to Birmingham now, you can see the kind of aesthetic change it's made.

fabric of the city has changed as well. We've got a very young population in the city with ambitious people. So, and I've kind of noticed a regional ownership that the professionals I'm talking to are very kind of proud of the city, proud of the strides we've made, but we all kind of know there's a lot more we want to do. There was a time when I was at university where people would finish their degrees and study, it's a tip. We're going to London, there's nothing in Birmingham.

we're going to London, that's where it's at, that's where the money is, that's where the opportunities. But we've built opportunities organically in Birmingham, so now people are like, I don't want to go to London.

Everything I need is here, so I'm quite proud of the region and a lot of work has gone into it. been a West Midlands Metro Mayor in the last 10 years and there's a lot of proud ambassadors like both of you, myself, want the region to succeed.

PJ Ellis (31:10)

Yeah, are we celebrating the right people?

Joel Blake (31:13)

I would say so, yeah. I would say so because there's a lot of people in the city that I know personally who are working really hard behind the scenes. There's a lot of unsung heroes, of course, PJ, and it'd be wrong to name them, but I know a lot of people working very hard that don't get the recognition they want.

PJ Ellis (31:32)

I think that's what

I should have phrased. How do we better shine a light on those sort of people that do all those things.

Joel Blake (31:39)

But equally

some of them don't want to lie. A lot of people like to do the background stuff. They thought, you know what, the glitz and glamour isn't really my kind of cup of tea, but I want to do the best in the background and see the fruits of my labour.

PJ Ellis (31:54)

I think that sometime is often the challenge that we have as a Brummie, black country, West Midlands approach. We were the underdogs because we're quite humble in our approach. And I think actually that the dichotomy or the paradox or the challenge about celebrating a city is actually some of these brilliant people that are doing so many brilliant things don't want to be celebrated, if that makes sense.

Joel Blake (31:57)

Yeah.

I feel like you just touch on it. I think culturally in the West Midlands, so the Birmingham area, in the Black Country, we don't like to boast about our achievements. We're proud of them, but we kind of don't really shine it on the light. But I do think to kind of put the city where it belongs, we do need to shine a light better.

PJ Ellis (32:28)

Yeah.

Andy (32:35)

I'd agree and I think it's having that story, that universally understood story and set of proof and evidence that makes everyone realise what's going on around here. Because otherwise they'll listen to what's going on in Manchester. you better tell them the story and we all know about London, wherever that is somewhere down there.

Joel Blake (32:37)

I think that's it.

Exactly.

Yeah.

PJ Ellis (32:52)

I was one of

those people that buggered off to London thinking my pot of gold was there and I came straight back with metal between my legs.

Joel Blake (32:58)

We put times

of different then PJ because before Birmingham was kind of lagging behind an extent but now it's kind of like the Brummies and people in the backcountry thought you know what there's a lot of potential here in Birmingham we need to put our city and region on the map and I think we've done that slowly but surely we're getting there.

Andy (33:16)

So what year are we in? 2026, all right, it's 2026. Let's look ahead to 2030 and assuming PJ and I are still knocking around. Yeah, where are you going to be Joel? What's your hopes for the kind of end of this decade? What's 2030 looking like?

PJ Ellis (33:20)

you

I'd say yeah, I hope so mate.

Joel Blake (33:26)

Ha ha.

I want to be in a position where I can be influencing those below me a lot better. I want to be a trailblazer because a lot of so we've mentioned kind of applying for the award and stuff, but I don't see the award as self-promotion. My mission has always been from the very start. said, I said, well, I think I was 11 years old. My mum can back me up on this. I said to the head of the year, you don't believe in me, but I believe myself. I want to come.

Andy (33:48)

Thank

Joel Blake (34:03)

back to this institution in how many years time, I can't give you the amount of years, and come back and say I made it, there's no reason why 1000 other pupils in this school from this area can't make it. So my mission is to inspire and improve. in 2030, it's not a bad position, I do want to be in a high position in my profession, but...

Andy (34:21)

concept.

Joel Blake (34:30)

not for self-promotion but to inspire. There's a lot of talented young professionals and young people in this city and region what needs someone who they can write to in a high position so they can continue their journey.

Andy (34:44)

Yeah, and we

have far too much youth unemployment, that's well documented. have great things going on in the city, but also things that have to be tackled and don't seem to be getting tackled. In your role on Future Faces, Future Faces committee, what for people who may not know about it, who are listening to this, what's involved with that? What sort of things do you do? Why should people be interested?

Joel Blake (34:48)

Yes, I'm sorry.

Yeah, so Future Faces is kind of the junior division of the Greater Birmingham Chamber of Commerce and our kind of ethos, goal is to kind of empower the young professionals in the Greater Birmingham region.

to kind of come together and collaborate together. So it's kind of soft networking. It's not networking to gain something. It's networking so we all can learn from each other and promote each other. So I've learned a lot through Future Faces. So it's good in the sense that it helps you kind of network with people of the same age and similar backgrounds from different disciplines. But it equips you with skills. So we have loads of professional development work.

workshops such as helping with imposter syndrome and self doubt. So this has helped me because I had a lot of imposter syndrome when I started my journey. I thought I don't deserve to be here. Why am I here? These are questions I was asking myself daily. But now through future faces, I've kind of learned imposter syndrome is fine. It's natural, but you have to examine yourself and think imposter syndrome is a syndrome. It's a phenomenon. It's

isn't real, you are where you are because of hard work. There's actually a picture and a quote of me at my old cottage, says, the man at the top of the mountain didn't just fall there.

So, you're possessing John for him to be at. I don't deserve to be on top of Everest, but you climbed there, God didn't put you there, you made the effort, you showed up every day to get there. You had the wit and grit, pardon the pun, to be where you are. There you go.

Andy (36:50)

Perfect. We needed a sting. we go.

PJ Ellis (36:51)

Yes, my. He's not media trained,

isn't he, Joel? I mean, hang on. The man at the top of the mountain didn't just fall there. love that. I'm reading a book at the moment. The chapter is about what imposter syndrome. They phrase it as imposterism term coined in 1970s. And they said that actually we all have it. You know, a lot of it's down to how we overestimate what people think of us sometimes because you know.

Joel Blake (37:16)

I've

caught a spotlight syndrome PJ because a lot of the time we think people are watching and when we do something embarrassing so for example you got a sudden trip you're like oh my god everyone saw that in reality no one did

So sometimes we kind of spotlight it for ourselves, think, oh, people are thinking this, but you don't know what people are thinking. So sometimes you have to kind of step back and stop trying to second guess and just think the reality is, it's not as bad as it seems. And self doubt will always creep in any, in any walk of life. You don't think, oh, I can't do this. I shouldn't do this for so many different reasons. But on the flip side, there's so many reasons why you should do it.

PJ Ellis (37:53)

Yeah.

Andy (37:54)

And self

doubt is just a sign that you're ready to try something new or different.

Joel Blake (37:57)

That's right.

PJ Ellis (37:58)

And what do you say, Andy? that, so one of the chapters last night was like this lady had said she was going into, she'd asked, she'd been asked to talk at one of these private clubs in London, very much like us, you know, Brummie, black country accent, down we go. And she just froze in a lift and was like, my word, what do they want to hear from me? And it came out that she had these experiences and a personality that no one else has. Andy, what's your phrase that you call in, most parts?

Andy (38:25)

Well, my favourite quote is, real self-confidence doesn't come from shouting affirmations at yourself in the mirror. Real self-confidence comes from giving the world irrefutable proof that you are who you say you are.

Joel Blake (38:32)

You

PJ Ellis (38:38)

There we go. Yeah, yeah, there we go. And you are the best in the world of being yourself, right? So, I mean, I did that the other day, right? I said to my daughter, we had a daddy-daughter day and I said, look, no one gives a bleep, I didn't swear, obviously, about you as much as you think, Minnie. I said, look, I can start singing now. We're in a famous coffee chain. And I said, I'm gonna start singing, Minnie, and you watch, no one will look at me. And she was like, you dare do, you won't do that, daddy.

Joel Blake (38:39)

You've given me seats.

Andy (38:41)

Yeah.

Yeah.

Joel Blake (38:52)

Yeah.

PJ Ellis (39:05)

and I started singing and then everyone looked at me. So it didn't really prove a point. No, just Celine Dion, mate. Heart must go on. Think about it, right? These...

Joel Blake (39:08)

What did you sing? Keep right on.

PJ Ellis (39:16)

You this confidence that you now have, right? Whatever that looks like outwardly facing a gentleman that knows how to network, where to network, why to network. And more importantly, there are say not more importantly, but whether you've nailed this or not, you're doing it within environments that are full of like minded, brilliant people. I've wrote some down here. Some have been on the pod before. Becca Hawley, Santina Bunting, Sophie at Future Faces, Ad Davis, know, Joel Blake, you know, all these.

greater Birmingham future faces people. I would love my son to be part of this group eventually to have that confidence to know what to do, where to do it and how to do it and be really willing and comfortably in his own skin to do that. What would you say then to someone who might feel a bit stuck, feel a little underestimated? What would you say to them?

Joel Blake (40:05)

I would say you have to go for it because there was time, like I said, I haven't always been this confident person. There was times where I was scared. Even to go, I was scared to even speak in a room with a few people, but it's over time. You have to kind of confront your fears. It's easier said than done, but I'm living proof it can happen.

PJ Ellis (40:27)

And do you think this to talk about fears? Do you need to get out of your own way then in relation to a young professional talking to that partner, even if even if it is helping them to download that new version of iOS? Do you need to get because I used to worry that I'd be overstepping the mark. Do you just have to get out of your own way a little bit sometimes?

Joel Blake (40:45)

Yeah, sometimes ⁓ your biggest enemy is yourself, is the inner voice telling you, you shouldn't do this. You just have to go for it. Like it's trivial helping a partner with iOS, but you've helped them with something they couldn't do. There's got to be something out there that builds trust. And like with any team in any walk of life, you need trust in each other. So a good example I used to use was Tony Pulis, which ⁓ was a manager. I remember him at Stoke and his team at Stoke had very limited technical

players

but there was a game where I think his mom passed away and he wasn't supposed to be in the game and his assistant was manager because he has Aston Villa. Aston Villa went 1-0 up in the first half and I thought you know what, Villa got absolutely smashed dog. Tony Pulis emerges from the tunnel at the second half and guides his team to a 2-1 victory and that just shows when you show up for your team and build trust these players will run through walls for him so in any kind

of workplace, if you're the leader and you show trust in your members of staff, whether it be your second in command, your junior, these employees or teammates, team members will show up for you.

PJ Ellis (42:01)

Luther Burrell was saying very similar things, wasn't he, Andy?

Andy (42:02)

Yeah.

Joel Blake (42:04)

It's

just like, human nature from the very start of human time. When trust was built, like armies of the past, when they had trust, they went on to conquer, like Alexander the Great, he had trust in his generals so much he left most of his empire to them.

but they would do stuff for you. So it's in any business, whether it's legal, accountancy, architecture, construction, if you have your team members' backs, they will have your back, and that aims the goal of the team.

Andy (42:35)

So last question for me, conscious of your time. I don't know if you're on the old six minute units or not, but you better keep going. Thinking about the year ahead, what's the one thing, well, a couple questions. Give us a reason to be optimistic and give us one thing that you'd like to see happen in 2026.

PJ Ellis (42:41)

Hahaha, yeah.

Joel Blake (42:41)

Thank

you.

So I'm 30 in a few months time, so the big arbitrary thrill. So I've kind of a lot of self reflection recently thinking, do you, what do, like 30 things I want by 30. One is I want to kind of do something big this year. I'm still working out what I want to be, but I want to do something big when I think, you know what, this is something I've put up for a long time. But if I can do this, this will set the tone.

for the rest of my career, rest of my life. So I wanna do something big. I'll come back to you guys in a few months what that is. And I also wanna kind of continue what I've been doing so far. the stuff I put in place, helping people get into rooms. So one of the things I like to do is connect people. So networking is kind of what I enjoy doing, but my kind of thing, I get satisfaction from the most is connecting people.

together.

PJ Ellis (43:53)

I that. And no doubt you'll continue to connect people in the way that I've always been very admirable, Admirable rather, that's the word.

Joel Blake (44:01)

Yeah,

and want to get to kind of, going back to Andy's question, I want to get to December 2026 and look back. I don't want to think this is a year I'm proud of because it's been years where I've just coasted and thought, you know what, it's been an okay year. That's okay, but you cannot grow from your comfort zone this year. I want to be uncomfortable.

I want to think, well, I shouldn't do this, but I've got to have to because it's kind of time where I'm thinking, Joel, it's time to really push on now.

Andy (44:34)

One thing that served me well, was getting scars on my back, was getting comfortable with being uncomfortable. Yeah.

Joel Blake (44:40)

Exactly.

PJ Ellis (44:42)

And that's what 2026 looked like for our Joel Blake and a big 30th birthday party, which no doubt will be invited to, Thanks, mate. Why I'd give to be 30 again. I'm nearly 30 staring, I suppose. Right, so I always end with a few takeaways. My dad probably wanted me to be a doctor. I went, I chose the little route as well. What would you have been if you were a lawyer,

Joel Blake (44:47)

May you both be invited.

I would say a footballer but I've got two left feet. I'd probably be a teacher.

PJ Ellis (45:04)

Yeah, it was good.

You'd be a teacher, mate. Right, so we end up with a few like sound bites and wow, there are many. The man at the top of the mountain didn't just fall there. Believe in yourself. It's exhausting to be someone that you're not. Networking isn't transactional. It's about having authentic conversations with like minded people. Upward mentoring is so powerful. I don't like using the word wrong or using red pen. Love that. If you want good, your nose needs to run.

It's not about who you know. It's about who knows you. Mate, for me, and I'm sure a lot of people agree today, is about, I'm thinking about my son here, careers, your jobs, your life, and all those experiences aren't what you might think they are. I think they're more around building it through people and conversations and giving people those opportunities.

Thank you for reminding us that today, Joel, and it's been a real pleasure, mate. Thank you.

Joel Blake (46:04)

My

quarters. Thank you for having me both.

Andy (46:06)

Cheers,