Stephanie Maas: Welcome to The Talent Trade. I am your host, Stephanie Maas, partner here at ThinkingAhead Executive Search. I am super excited about our guest, Josh Karamol. Josh is a part of the banking and commercial banking, commercial finance team, top first year, top second year. He is now a partner with thinking ahead. So I'm hyped about him. I am also hyped about his topic, which is resignation prep. This is probably one of my all time favorite things that we do in terms of providing counsel to our candidates. Josh is going to speak a lot to it, but no matter how you slice it or dice it. No matter how ready you are to go or not ready, or all the different things, resignations can feel pretty intense. So Josh, welcome.
Josh Karamol: Hi Stephanie. Thank you for having me. I'm excited.
Stephanie Maas: Totally legit. Okay, well, let's get meaty. Let's dive right in. By the way, y'all can't see Josh, but when I say let's get meaty, I'm actually referring to his physique. His nickname on the team is Paul Bunyan. Okay, all kidding aside, walk us through when you go into resignation prep, what's on your mind?
Josh Karamol: Yeah, happy to. At a high level, I have a few pieces that I really like to stick to uncover really starting well before we are at the time of resignation. You know, going back to prior to the offer letter, you're having conversations around expectations come resignation. Also like to cover and provide. You know, once it becomes time for that resignation, preparing for that we have a great prep guide that I enjoy utilizing. It really dives deeper into the things that we're covering here at high level today, great information around anything from examples of resignation letters and what those look like, preparing for you know those certain reactions that you'll have from leadership once you resign, and how to navigate those I also enjoy, you know, covering what will need to get done right, a checklist of things that will need to be covered and taken care of prior to your leaving and what to do after resignation. Isn't just something that you prepare for, you
execute and then you simply walk away. It's, it's the items that you need to touch base on afterwards as well.
Stephanie Maas: Okay, you said you have a guide. Tell me what's in that? Tell me more about that.
Josh Karamol: Yeah, the guide, it really starts out with first steps, you know, preparing yourself for that resignation. You know, sticking to the facts, organize your thoughts. You know, it can be an emotional time, while often it's, it's a logical decision, right? It's a, it's a huge decision for you as a professional moving into a new opportunity in a new environment. It's also a very emotional time. You build long, lasting relationships, friendships, and it's, it's hard to walk away from those, but it's providing guidance to navigating those pieces being organized, write them down, walk through them yourself, you know, preparing yourself for the resignation letter, which would be, you know, that that next item to cover and tackle, and what that looks like it'll also dive into, you know, your open items complete, you know, active projects or deals that you're Working on anything that needs to be passed off anybody you feel your leadership should reach out to to follow
up on things, you know, things all the way down to compensation. That's Oh, whether that be 401, K contributions, vacation pay and so on, not to get overly, overly detailed in the weeds. But you know, preparing for those different reactions that leadership will have more often than not, it will be emotional. They hate to see good people go. And that's who we work with. Are good people, great people. So that part is always the most difficult, right? Having those tough conversations, so prepares for that how to navigate certain reactions, and, you know, gives you a kind of a list of do's and don'ts on what to do during your resignation process. And as I mentioned prior, you're after you resign, you know, you walk out of the walk out of the room, you know, call your spouse a best friend. The recruiter. Let them know, you know, let it out right. Super emotional time for somebody. It kind of helps, helps with handling how that conversation went. Obviously, you're
prepared for the exit interview, making the transition as smooth as possible, right? We never want to burn bridges for the most part. You know, then it's managing your retirement plan, savings and and those sorts of things. But that's, that's kind of a high level what that guide provides.
Stephanie Maas: Ok. Tell me a little bit about the prep for the emotional side of things, because I know, candidly, for a lot of folks, you say this can be emotional, and yet, oftentimes, when I'm talking with folks, they don't feel like it is, you know? They like, yeah, yeah, I know what to do. I'm a grown up. I'm a professional blah, blah, blah. How do you help prepare folks for that? What does that look like when you say it can be emotional? Can you just expand on that for me please?
Josh Karamol: It can be very difficult preparing for that, because, you know, the emotions can be, it can be a wide range, right? As far as a reaction going into that meeting, it's, it's really just trying to keep the emotions out of the conversation the best you can the individual or individuals who you will be resigning with or to, that is where the emotion will probably come from. It'll be you're pushing back. You know, is this the right you really think this is the right decision for you? Or I can't believe you're leaving us or or things like that, that that might make you feel guilty or second guess your decision. It's going into that conversation, if you are prepared for those reactions. Your reaction, in turn, will remain, you know, kind of even keeled. It will remain confident. I think that's a big thing to go in with confidence and portray that throughout the conversation. Because you've you've made this decision, you're walking to this meeting knowing
you've made the right decision for yourself, for your family, if any stakeholders within that that decision you've made, the right decision to make that move forward. So I think handling any of those emotional responses with with a very confident stance is while being obviously respectful and professional is key to coming out on the other end of those conversations with both parties in a positive place as you can be.
Stephanie Maas: How do you... and I'm not, we're not going to spend a lot of time today talking about counter offers and all that kind of good stuff. That's a whole nother podcast. But you did mention part of your prep is, you know, calling spouse, stakeholders. Tell me about that and why you see that as good practice.
Josh Karamol: I think it's good practice, because you want, you want to share the news. You want to decompress. I think for me, just did a presentation. First thing that I wanted to do was, was called my my wife, and let her know how it went, whether it was great, whether I had any issues, whatever the case is, you know, somebody to confide in and, you know, decompress following something as big as that. I think it's key to bringing you back down to a level, a level headspace. You know, have that that affirmation that you have made the right decision.
Stephanie Maas: What if any pitfalls do you see that folks encounter either when they're in the prep with you, or during the resignation itself?
Josh Karamol: I think one of the biggest pitfalls comes from that individual strengths, to be quite honest, and that's that's the loyalty piece, that's the the relationships built in the past. I've had an individual who was more than excited to take on a new opportunity, so much as hand delivered their acceptance letter to the new organization. And you know, prior to the start, when they were writing their resignation letter, they got rather emotional, so much so that, the tears were hitting the page right, and they were thinking about all the things that that they had gone through with their colleagues over the last 1015, years. Had they had been in weddings, they've been the graduation parties, they had been on trips together, seemingly feeling like you're saying goodbye to that is the biggest downfall. I think for many. What I like to coach is that where it may feel like something like that is coming to end, it very much, is not if, if that relationship is all that it
feels to be that will outlast where you're employed right at the end of the day, that person should probably be more excited about you and taking a next step in your career than upset that you're leaving them.
Stephanie Maas: Oh, that's a super valid point. Any other good counsel that you feel like is particularly effective as folks go into resignation, knowing that again, logically, they've got their to do. Emotionally, they're prepared. Any other good tidbits you like to share to help make that seemingly not so tough?
Josh Karamol: Yeah, I think as a recruiter, it's important to start having these conversations leading up to an offer. I think before decision time is a good time to get ducks in a row. In a sense, understand what timing might look like. Are they going to walk you out the door after you resign, is it? Are they going to have you work out your two weeks, you know? And then with that is couple this, this start date, right? What is that start date going to look like? Do you think they will have a counter offer for you, and do you think they'll push back? Do you think they'll give you that promotion that you've been gunning for, that's been promised for two years, and now, all of a sudden, it's on the table because you're leaving having those conversations ahead of time. I think is always beneficial to properly prepare even prior to an offer letters. Because once the offer letter itself comes, that's a whole other decision, right? That's a whole other set of things that
you're looking through. So the more things that you can tackle on the front end of that offer I think the the. The better off that individual, that candidate, is in terms of making their decision and feeling good and prepared to make that decision
Stephanie Maas: Nice. So I have to ask, you mentioned it's important for them to reach out to their support group. When do you like the person who resigned to reach out to you, the recruiter?
Josh Karamol: In a perfect world, immediately. I know that I'm not always the first person on their mind after having that conversation. So if you have somebody, such as a spouse or a best friend, mentor, whatever that might look like, that you would like to reach out to first by all means, please do whoever you are most comfortable with, and then let me know, you know, within, within, I would say 48 hours would be best practice, just to ensure that we're on the same page as we have been throughout the process. And then I can still continue moving forward with, you know, expectations on start date, right? Because we do need to get back to your new employer on a solidified start date and expectations, a reminder to talk through and walk through any checklist items that you still need to do with your current employer that you just resigned from, things like that. But I would say within within 48 hours is reasonable.
Stephanie Maas: That's awesome. One of the things I really appreciate in your tone, and I know this is also in your execution is, you just bring so much humanity to the way you work with your folks. I mean, experienced recruiters, resignations are, you know, we always have pits in our stomach. Is it really going to happen? Is all these things, and it's so easy to project that onto our candidates and somehow make their resignation about us and not them. And I just really appreciate the way you guide and keep folks focus on them, their decision, and making this about them.
Josh Karamol: I appreciate that, and I think, I think it is important to conduct yourself in that way as a recruiter, at the end of the day, I am not the one that is making such a huge change, right? I'm simply that that guy through the process. I'm that resource, I'm that sounding board, I'm that counselor, I'm I'm wearing all the hats that are needed to make important decisions, but I'm not the one making that decision. I would it's my job to put you in the best position to make that decision. However you come to that decision, whatever that decision may be, that is entirely on you. It does not affect me the same way that it affects you. So I'm not going to push you into a role just because I want to fill that that role right? I It needs to be the right fit on both sides. And I am a person of integrity, and believe that so long as I am working in such a manner, I will be a continued resource for candidates throughout the market and in my space.
Stephanie Maas: That's awesome, man. Absolutely anything else before I let you get back to what you do best?
Josh Karamol: No. I mean, I think there's always the added benefit and value brought by recruiters like us here at thinking ahead that maybe aren't thought about and thought of by candidates, individuals that are exploring the market. We offer things like this. We are a a full service, 360 recruiting resource for you as you look to make, you know, one of the largest decisions in your life, and that's changing your your career trajectory. So happy to be a part of it and provide all the all the necessary pieces to help you make a most informed decision.
Stephanie Maas: I love it. Thank you so much for your insight, your wisdom and your practicality on resignation prep. Thanks, man.
Josh Karamol: My pleasure. Thanks, Stephanie.